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41 Years Ago Today! My how time flies!

Started by Lisa_K, June 20, 2018, 07:54:28 PM

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Lisa_K

Stepping out of lurker mode for a moment to share...

In 1977, I was 22 years old and the "great wait" was finally over after what seemed like an eternity and a few pretty rough and frustrating years that nearly put me in the grave. Today, June 20th is my 41st anniversary of sex reassignment surgery as performed by the legendary Dr. Stanley Biber in Trinidad, Colorado. Yay me!

I've written detailed but fairly lengthy story of my trans childhood and adolescence in the 1960's and early 70's but thought it best to not bore everyone to death and will offer the following recap for those that might be interested. It's still pretty long but that's because "my story" starts a long time ago.

As an only child, apparently everything about me was gender incongruent (for a boy anyway!) with my differences brought fully to light when starting kindergarten. Even at 63 years old I remember the culture shock of being separated by boys and girls and not fully understanding why I couldn't stand with my tribe or why I couldn't have long hair and look like the other girls. This feeling never went away and by the third grade (1963) my distress was bad enough that I was allowed to grow out my hair even though it only caused immeasurable problems for me socially as well as with the rigid school dress codes of the era. After the 4th grade my folks put me in counseling not so much to fix or change me but rather to help deal with the bullying and abuse from classmates and even teachers. Before starting 7th grade, I had been to a dozen different schools trying to find one where I wasn't deemed disruptive simply by existing.

Moving to a new state, 7th grade i.e. junior high or middle school in 1967 was my biggest SHTF event to date. First kicked out for my hair which was resolved when my folks showed up at the school board with lawyers threatening to sue and then expelled proper for fighting a gym coach that tried to force me into the boy's locker room/showers. Letters from two psychologists resolved that issue although I've never been sure what reason was given.

By this time, I had become perfectly androgynous and people that didn't know I was supposed to be a boy wasn't sure what I was but I was happy about this confusion as at least it was something. When I started high school in 1969 my status as a pariah and an outcast was well solidified and the bullying and name calling had become all just par for the course. During my sophomore year, while walking home from school I was attacked and nearly killed by a group of homophobic boys and the month I was out of school recovering was really a turning point in my life.

It was during that time in the middle of one of my folks "it's okay if you are gay" talks that we'd been having for years, that I came to an understanding with my parents that "I was a girl, had always been a girl and that there was no way in hell I was ever going to grow up and be a man." The unexpected response I got was "we know". At the time, none of us really knew what this meant, what to do about it or even the language to discuss it. "Trans" was not a thing.

At 15 with this "understanding" on the table things began to change for the better and I was able to move decidedly toward the femme side of androgyny. I got my ears pierced, brows shaped, could shave my legs and could wear girls clothes as long as they could pass for boys to some degree. It became a balancing act of how much I could get away with and not get kicked out of school. By 16 I was routinely being gendered as a girl in public everywhere except school which had become increasingly difficult to deal with. By the time I was 17, I was deeply depressed and suicidal and my folks had found another doctor they wanted me to see but I'd been talking to stupid and clueless doctors since I was ten and not that interested but I knew I had to do something or I wasn't going to make it.

This guy and his team of psychiatrists and psychologists were different. After evaluations and such, I started HRT in 1972 at 17 years old during the summer break before my senior year which was pretty unconventional because trans youth were still a mostly unrecognized phenomenon at the time. The hormones, knowing finally that I wasn't crazy, having a direction and purpose and the words to discuss all this was enough to let me make it to graduation in 1973. By then, I had hair to my waist and noticeable breasts and was certainly the talk of the town as one might imagine. My mom curled my hair and I wore full makeup to graduation as kind of a big "F YOU" to the school and the haters and all the misery and hassle they caused.

The week after graduation, with letters from my doctor, my mom took me to the DMV to get my name and gender marker changed on my driving license. That was fun because they had never done that before but my mom was pretty pushy about it and they did what we asked. Needless to say my folks were 110% supportive because nothing else made a bit of sense for me. This was the highlight of my "transition".  I already looked like a girl and had been passing as one for two years outside of school but now it was official. My folks did all the legwork for legally changing my name and I was on my way. Within several months, I got my first real job working in an office as a secretary/receptionist and ended up working in the clerical field or pink collar ghetto if you will up until the mid 1990's.

Finding resources and getting information in the early to mid 70's wasn't a few clicks away like it is today. I spent countless hours in the public library researching and doing my homework. There were gender programs at Stanford and John's Hopkins that all seemed to have impossible standards and were out of financial reach anyhow so I just got on with life as best as I could. I finally got things together and was able to have SRS in 1977 after being on HRT for five years and living "full time" for four, however, I had met my goals as a 15 year old to never grow up to be a man and have lived my entire adult life as just the girl next door.

I've never been part of the LGB or trans community and in fact had never met anyone like me until I checked into the hospital to have surgery. That's been the case for the balance of my life until just a few years ago when I did become more interested in the whole thing but in the real world, I am not out or am stealth in today's parlance and for me this has worked out the best.  Honestly though, my experience growing up trans when I did is not something I've found many people my age can say and there really aren't a lot of people like me except the young trans folks we see today. Yes, I told my husband before I was married when I was 29 and we were together until I was in my 40's but my history is something I don't casually share.

I thought I would here though thinking some might find it inspirational or historical. I see so many here that think such things were impossible in "the dark ages" but I am living proof to the contrary and I think people need to know that. My life has been blessed and all I can really say is that I am eternally grateful that my folks were so understanding and supportive and helped me get my life off to a good start. It amazes me that more than fifty years later some parents still don't get it.

So happy birthday of sorts to me! Happy to answer any questions but otherwise, it's back to lurking I go!

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Karen_A

Quote from: Lisa_K on June 20, 2018, 07:54:28 PMToday, June 20th is my 41st anniversary of sex reassignment surgery as performed by the legendary Dr. Stanley Biber in Trinidad, Colorado. Yay me!

Happy Re-birthday! Glad it all worked out for you.

This summer will be 20 years since my SRS... but my story is very different from yours (I am close to your age BTW).

- Karen
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Doreen

I loved your story, thank you for it.  I hope it provides the inspiration here to many still struggling.. and amazing that you were able to get the help you needed back then.

17 years since I had genital reconstruction done here.  Never been happier. More confused lately, but yes. Happy.  Hopefully others will see these stories and realize its ok.. the struggles can get better.

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Dani

Lisa K,

You are so fortunate to have had supportive parents. I am sure it made things easier for you to find yourself.

I am just a few years older than you and I did not transition until just a few years ago. When I was a teenager, psychologists told us that transgender feelings was due to cruel or absent fathers. They claimed that we just needed a positive role model. This was eventually proven to be untrue, but it delayed my transition for over 50 years because I thought I could unlearn the damage from a bad father.

I experienced a series of events that happened to cause me to transition later in life and the only thing I regret is not transitioning when I was younger.

I am envious of someone who was able to live most of their life as they wish.
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Complete

I could be wrong,  but l believe Lisa K's message is clear. Where there is sufficient will, a way will be found.
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Karen_A

Quote from: Complete on June 20, 2018, 09:32:49 PM
I could be wrong,  but l believe Lisa K's message is clear. Where there is sufficient will, a way will be found.

If one believes there IS a way for them... and there are plenty of things that can made one believe it is not possible for them...

I am essentially the same age she is, but when i was growing up a lot of factors made it seem impossible for me (and being in a single parent working class severely alcoholic family did not help) ... the biggest one was my shear size/build... (and I did not know it but I also had a significant spinal deformity)

My therapist back in 1990s, who had been part of a gender clinic back the 70's, told me that my physicality alone would have disqualified me back then... but given the world as it was back then *I* could not see how I could do it successfully ... it seemed crazy to even consider it... took me another 20 years to reach the point where i had to do it or not be able to function.

- karen


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Complete

Yes. I understand. In those days, (lwas there then), yhe surgery was considered a highly controversial, (in the medical establishment ), experimental, and a last resort. Perhaps it was only those of who were considered sufficiently desperate, ( and "passable") that were fortunate enough to be selected.
I can't imagine my having survived without that life saving surgery. Those of you who did, are to be commended.
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EllenJ2003

#7
Happy Birthday!  Yep, time sure does fly!   :) 

For myself, it's hard to believe that it's over 14 1/2 years since I had my SRS.  It's the best thing I've ever done in my life.  I wish I could have done it earlier like you did Lisa - I even looked into transitioning during the 80s, when I was still in college at the University of Wisconsin.  That was a bust.  I couldn't find any medical resources for transition in my neck of the woods at the time!!  It didn't help that my parents (whom I came out to at age 15 in 1978), fought me tooth an nail until literally weeks before my SRS in 2003.  My brother and sister weren't much better.  Still, like most of us who managed to get the surgery done, I persevered.  As it is, the surgical result back when I wanted to have SRS in the 80s, would have probably been disastrous due to me being microphallic - can you say zero depth ? (Dr. Suporn told me that he couldn't have even used penile inversion technique for my SRS - I didn't even have enough penile tissue to pull down to the proper anatomical location) - definitely NOT something I'd ever want!!!

Like you and others mentioned Lisa, where there's a will there's a way, even if you are dead broke at times (me from 2000 till mid 2003, due to transition costs, and taking a huge cut in pay, due to corporate downsizing).  Hard as it may be to do, staying focused helps a lot, even to the point of forgoing some of life's perks (saving money in the process), until SRS is done (when I was tempted by pricey things I wanted as a pre-op, I used to ask myself if I wanted SRS badly enough, to opt out of buying the expensive item - the SRS won out in every case).
HRT Since 1999
Legal Name Change and Full Time in Dec. 2000
Orchiectomy in July 2001
SRS (Yaay!! :)) Nov. 25, 2003 by Suporn
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EllenJ2003

Quote from: Complete on June 21, 2018, 12:13:22 AM
Yes. I understand. In those days, (l was there then), the surgery was considered highly controversial, (in the medical establishment ), experimental, and a last resort. Perhaps it was only those of who were considered sufficiently desperate, ( and "passable") that were fortunate enough to be selected.
I can't imagine my having survived without that life saving surgery. Those of you who did, are to be commended.

I know the feeling - I almost killed myself a few times before transitioning.  I would have been dead before 2000, if I hadn't started transitioning in late 1998, despite having nowhere near enough money, to assure myself of covering all costs through to SRS.  As I feared, I ran out of money (along with taking a huge cut in pay [on the order of $5/hr] due to corporate downsizing), by early 2000, and by 2002 my worst fear was looking like it was going to come to pass - that I was going to end up stalled out in finishing up my transition, as a permanent pre-op (sorry, I could have never tolerated being a non-op).  I started having a nervous breakdown (I was constantly crying [especially if I saw the male stuff between my legs in the mirror after bathing]), and wound up almost taking a one-way swim in Lake Michigan (which I had always planned on doing if I decided to permanently check out from life).  How that swim never happened is beyond me - I had my shoes off, was in a secluded part of the shoreline, where nobody could see me, and was less than a foot from the water, crying my heart out.  I must have had one last-ditch burst of hope, to keep me from going through with the deed.

In the vein of your comment  about things being different back in the day - things were even different from nowadays, back when I transitioned, and had my SRS (late 1998-late 2003).  On the job (I transitioned in a workplace with several hundred employees), I was often viewed as an oddity/curiosity.  Bathroom issues were much worse for me than they are from most transitioners nowadays.  That bigot of an HR person I had to deal with wouldn't allow me to use the Ladies room, or even consider designating a Unisex bathroom.  I almost lost my job as a result of the bathroom issue, when I was caught using a seldom used Ladies room (I hated using the men's room, and it didn't help things when a man who was in the one lightly used men's room I used, asked me if I realized that I [despite looking like a mess - I was dressed like a slob, and had no makeup on, because I was working in 90 plus degree temperatures] was in the wrong bathroom?!!!).  Insurance cover SRS at the time?  Very seldom.  The health insurance I had through work at the time, actually had a rider in it explicitly stating that it would NOT cover SRS.
HRT Since 1999
Legal Name Change and Full Time in Dec. 2000
Orchiectomy in July 2001
SRS (Yaay!! :)) Nov. 25, 2003 by Suporn
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Lisa_K

Oh gosh! Thanks everyone for your comments.

You know, it wasn't until last year that I even sat down to figure out how long it had been or what the date was. Sometimes the things I've been through in life don't even seem like my own or as if they're from story I read somewhere and when I talk about these things, it's with a great sense of detachment which has been the only way I can remember some of my more difficult times. It's hard to imagine the time in my life when my body was any different than the way it is now or that I was called by another name. It's like a fantasy or a dream.

Times were tumultuous and difficult and because of my "problem" I did miss out on a lot of normal growing up experiences because I was too much girl to be a boy and not enough girl to be a real girl and the challenge of this was, was the whole world knew it. There was no hiding from it. There was no compensating for it so it's easy to see why I was never seen as just a regular kid and this was not at any time something under my control. It made parts of my younger years consumed and distracted by just not understanding why I had a boy's body or why I even had to be a boy? It just wasn't right. It never was right, it didn't fit nor did any of the things boys were supposed to do or the way they were supposed to be. How could this be possible I wondered with thoughts that invaded my every waking moment to some degree but always in the back of my mind somewhere. I knew who I was. I knew what gender I was but then my body and the expectations and consequences of having that body presented obvious evidence to the contrary. All I was able to do was just be me and that came across pretty loud and clear. All I've ever done is just be me.

In no way am I a victim here. I've been fortunate to live a fairly normal and happy life. I know at times it may sound like my childhood and teen years were a living nightmare but that's truly not the case. I grew up around loving and compassionate people and as an only child was probably overindulged so I do have many happy memories that counter some of the challenges I put my family through. Who I was and the way I was, in my home and family life was simply not something that ever made any difference and I had a safe bubble from the outside world that saw me as some grand anomaly.

I was allowed the freedom to mostly do what I wanted to do, within limits of course and I had my outlets for expressing myself. Besides the common stuff of having dolls, Barbies and girl toys and girls for friends, yada yada, being able to have not boy hair was my biggest symbol to the world of who I was, a part of my physicality and the thing I held on to the most that made me like other girls in spite of all the trouble it caused. The few here that know me offsite know my hair is still a thing for me!

From last weekend after a night at the bar and without my glasses on for some reaso?. Why would I do that? I'm blind as bat!  :)
(cropped for muh privacy)


I've done a lot of thinking over the years, especially now that I am older and know more about other families with trans children what my parents must have gone through with me? I know at times I embarrassed them. I know they spent a lot of money on doctors and I know they had to deal with my constant problems with schools and they did this completely in the dark and on the fly. I don't know how many parents would accept even having a gay child during the years I grew up let alone one who was like me and I've often wondered what planet these people came from. I've not really come across anyone my age that had a similar supportive environment to the one I had during my school years and transitioned as a teenager and that uniqueness sometimes bothers me. But then again, I haven't really been looking either. My guess is that most of my generation that was as screwed up with all this as I was as a kid simply didn't make it and most of the rest were lost to the AIDS epidemic. I read stories and see videos of modern young trans kids and how they simply can't live without transitioning and the popular dogma is that preventing them from doing so is tantamount to child abuse because it's so emotionally harmful if they don't. Let me just say having lived it, it is effing traumatizing and sometimes I don't know why I'm not more screwed up than I am?

After I was 18, I blended into the woodwork as they used to say and just got on with living my everyday life. By then, I had learned enough about the process of changing sex and knew I had to be normal, stable and fit well into the world as part of the prevalent gatekeeping of the time so that's what I did. Outwardly, being trans was not a part of my life with the struggle for living with the wrong kit and getting that taken care of something internalized. When I did have my surgery, to the casual observer it changed absolutely nothing about my life. It was a blip. Six weeks off of work and it was back to regular life and "being trans" was and has never been a part of that.

Sure, I've had to deal with it times and of course there's the things we have to do like take hormones and dilate and then there's the issues of sex and relationships and when or if to share the things my body has been through and doctors but for the most part, my life has very cis like and very average and I couldn't have asked for anything more.
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Dani

Quote from: Lisa_K on June 21, 2018, 04:41:56 AM

After I was 18, I blended into the woodwork as they used to say and just got on with living my everyday life....


This is the most important thing to do after GCS. Just get on with life.

I have seen several transwomen who are so focused on transition that they had no plan for their life after GCS. All the problems in their life from before were still there after GCS. We need to plan for our life after transition.

Thank you Lisa K for allowing us to know about your story.


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zirconia

Hi, Lisa

Again, thank you. I love reading your posts.
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EllenJ2003

#12
Lisa, I definitely understand blending in with the woodwork.  I grew to hate the workplace job I was at until mid 2004.  Due to being one of the company's Quality Engineers, my job put me in touch with many people, to the point that I ended up basically transitioning in front of several hundred people.  The majority of people were OK with what I was doing (my female coworkers in the Quality Assurance department were especially wonderful - they decided on their own to be my very own on-the-job support system!), but it got old being viewed by many people, as the "person who did that thing."  Along with the huge pay cut, and the bathroom hassles I mentioned in a previous post, I also had to put up with people who felt it was their duty to inform strangers about me being transsexual (one guy acted like a bastard, and outed me shortly after I went full time in late 2000, in the Radio Shack he was working at part time [I got so mad {especially after seeing the guy's Radio Shack coworkers snickering at me}  I filed a complaint with Radio Shack]), when frankly it was not their right to do so IMO.  It was with a great sense of relief, that I left that job in Aug. 2004, and when I did so, I went stealth.  Out and proud?  Been there, done that, bought the tee shirt, and returned it!  No thanks! 

BTW Lisa, you look great in your photos!  People say I look decently attractive (as my mom says to me, like Sarah Huckabee Sanders [good heavens!] - surprisingly mom's right), you have me beat by a mile!  You go girl!!   :)

Well, I'd better get moving.  I took a day of vacation from work, so I can take my mom (dad can't do it, he died of cancer back in 2015) to a follow-up appointment for cardiac surgery (which I drove her to the hospital for) that she had 2 plus weeks ago.  I have a 90 plus mile drive to my hometown (a small city of about 32,000 along the shore of Lake Michigan) from the Milwaukee Metro area, and then another 35 mile or so drive with mom to Green Bay for the appointment.

'Later,
Ellen
HRT Since 1999
Legal Name Change and Full Time in Dec. 2000
Orchiectomy in July 2001
SRS (Yaay!! :)) Nov. 25, 2003 by Suporn
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Lisa_K

Quote from: EllenJ2003 on June 21, 2018, 09:47:56 AM
Lisa, I definitely understand blending in with the woodwork.  I grew hate the workplace job I was at, until mid 2004.  Due to being one of the company's Quality Engineers, my job put me in touch with many people, to the point that I ended up basically transitioning in front of several hundred people.

Here is where the concept of what this must be like goes off the rails for me because it is just hard to imagine the difficulties of transitioning as an adult already established in life. I don't think I would have been able to do that and don't know how people do? That's got to be incredibly more difficult than anything I've ever been through.

My "transition" as it were, consisted only of subtle changes considering I started already well past the middle and most of those changes just happened organically and unconsciously and were not part of some grand plan or working toward a goal. Stuff just happened without really knowing it was happening, why it was happening or really what it meant and any single point where I started to transition indiscernible from the way I already was. I once overheard my mom talking on the phone to someone about me trying to explain that even though I was born a boy, that I had somehow grown up to be a girl, that I'd always been like that and wasn't that the darnedest thing they'd ever heard of? Even my folks thought I was weird but they never me treated poorly because of it even with all the crap I'd put them through and the constant battle war over what I could wear and how I could look. They never treated me as broken as I felt I was.

There was no time in my life where I was ever seen as or fit in as a normal boy so becoming outwardly even more not normal boy was no big thing for me or in other words, I was always seen as some kind of a freak or oddity so why did I care? I was already thought of as some girly queer homo ->-bleeped-<- outcast so as I did increasingly adopt a decidedly more feminine presentation, it didn't really even matter and wasn't unexpected because I had always broken the rules and there wasn't really a whole lot more I could do to make that worse than it already was. School would not tolerate me wearing makeup though. I was already way over the line anyway but that was just too much. I got written up and sent home for it twice. My folks were not pleased. I wasn't making a statement. I just wanted to do what other girls were doing and thought it was pretty unfair especially when I could wear a little makeup on the weekends or when we went out for dinner sometimes.

What really concerned or embarrassed me the most was after I recovered from being attacked and went back to school I was no longer allowed to walk to or from school even though it was only ten or twelve minutes away. After class, I had to wait in the office for my mom or step-dad to come and pick me up, sometimes an hour or more and I felt like a child. My mom even left work and picked me up every day and took me home for lunch because she knew I wouldn't use the bathrooms at school. We all hated this and one of the best things to come out of it was as soon as I was old enough to drive, I got a hand me down car for getting to and from school but only there. In fact, the entire time I lived at home after that, I was not allowed to leave the house to go anywhere but school unless one of them was with me.

They feared, and probably rightfully so, that someone was going to kill me since they already had tried but to me it felt like being in prison on top of already being prison. I never went to a school game, dance, prom or party, joined a club or made any friends except one and she ditched me senior year because her boyfriend didn't like me but it wasn't like I really wanted to to do any of these social things anyway. Because I didn't want to be seen or be around people I was withdrawn, isolated and depressed and would have probably never come out of my bedroom if given the choice. Take your normal teen angst and moodiness and throwing being trans and experiencing unwanted puberty on top of that is like multiplying it by 1000.

My senior year of high school was a little different. The kids were a little more mature and not quite so horrible and there was a small gang of girls that looked out for me and stuck up for me at times. When the hormones started working, and they did fast, I think a lot of the kids thought I had cancer or something and they left me alone while there were some kids that more or less figured things out. They all thought it was funny to yell "Hey Christine" as in Christine Jorgensen and there was one teacher that hated me so much I had to transfer to another class but there was another teacher I had all four years for Spanish probably responsible for me not just giving up and dropping out and I'll never forget him. He teased me. He embarrassed me in front of the class on the daily but he made me laugh at myself, feel a little better about myself and made the other kids laugh and it totally diffused the whole situation and helped a few of the other kids to see that I was human and not a monster. Picture the gendered nature of the Spanish language. He had a field day with that when it came to me. In my early 20's, I'd always thought about going to the school and thanking him for what he did and letting him see the boy that looked like a girl had become a young woman proper but even going close to the place gave me the shivers and I never did. I can't drive by there even today without evoking some not so nice memories but in other ways it makes me smile a little at what a tough and stubborn little cookie I was and how interesting and unique were my experiences there.

"Transition" for me was more a matter of paperwork than anything. It didn't change a whole heck of a lot about my appearance or presentation and it certainly didn't change my manner or personality other than providing some relief that most of the stupidity was behind me. The week after graduating I got my new ID and the week or maybe it was two after that I left home for other adventures. I just needed to be free, get out from under my parent's thumb and away from their constant fears about my safety. Didn't know where I was going or where I was going to stay or how I was going to eat after the $100 I got for graduation ran out and things were pretty crazy for a while but I managed.

Aw geez! Can I ramble on or what? Sorry about that. :icon_redface:

QuoteBTW Lisa, you look great in your photos!  People say I look decently attractive (as my mom says to me, like Sarah Huckabee Sanders [good heavens!] - surprisingly mom's right), you have me beat by a mile!  You go girl!

Hey thanks! If we're going to compare to political figures, I guess I'd be Kellyanne Conway (good heavens indeed!). Google tells me we're almost the same height but at 5"7" she's a little taller and we are of similar build. She's 12 years younger but looks older than me so I win!  ;D

Jealous though. I wish my mom was still around and I wish I had half the courage and strength that she did. I lost her at 25 when she was only 48 and one of my biggest disappointments was she never got to meet my husband and she left me with a lot of questions about my childhood and a poor understanding of her perspective what it was like raising a kid as screwed up as I was. Our communication style was argumentative but we were really close. One of the nicest things she tried to do before she died was track down and reconnect me with my biological father that I hadn't seen or heard from for over ten years. He'd last seen me at 13 and you might say I was not quite his cup of tea but that's a whole other story! Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when she told him he'd had a new daughter for six years he didn't know anything about.  ::)
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EllenJ2003

#14
Quote from: Lisa_K on June 22, 2018, 01:51:20 AM
Here is where the concept of what this must be like goes off the rails for me because it is just hard to imagine the difficulties of transitioning as an adult already established in life. I don't think I would have been able to do that and don't know how people do? That's got to be incredibly more difficult than anything I've ever been through.

Hey thanks! If we're going to compare to political figures, I guess I'd be Kellyanne Conway (good heavens indeed!). Google tells me we're almost the same height but at 5"7" she's a little taller and we are of similar build. She's 12 years younger but looks older than me so I win!  ;D

Jealous though. I wish my mom was still around and I wish I had half the courage and strength that she did. I lost her at 25 when she was only 48 and one of my biggest disappointments was she never got to meet my husband and she left me with a lot of questions about my childhood and a poor understanding of her perspective what it was like raising a kid as screwed up as I was. Our communication style was argumentative but we were really close. One of the nicest things she tried to do before she died was track down and reconnect me with my biological father that I hadn't seen or heard from for over ten years. He'd last seen me at 13 and you might say I was not quite his cup of tea but that's a whole other story! Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when she told him he'd had a new daughter for six years he didn't know anything about.  ::)

You're lucky that you got things out of the way at young age.  I told my mom when I was 6 that I wished I was a girl (after stating it for the second time in like 2 minutes [because she didn't respond to me]), only to be told to shut up.  My sister and I played with her Barbies until I was like 7 or 8, when I was basically told not to do so.  My dad was Mr. Macho, forcing my brother and I to have crew cuts (which were not only out of style in the early and mid 70s, but I hated for obvious reasons).  I learned early on (in grade school in the early and mid 70s) that if you didn't want grief (like a not very intelligent, and very femme classmate was subjected to), you acted like "one of the guys."  Of course I still desperately wanted to be a girl.  I also was still having slip ups where the real me showed (it wasn't a nice time when that happened).  I started seriously cross dressing at age 12 (my mom told me last year, that despite my efforts to hide that I was doing so, she knew I was cross dressing [I wore her clothes, which fit me better than my sister's clothes did - I also liked them more than my sister's clothes).  That, combined with seeing Renee Richards (who in the past 20 or so years has turned out to be a bit of a kook) on TV, made me decide during summer break between 7 & 8th grade in 1977, to do research on changing sex at the local public library (cross dressing didn't do it for me - I did not get turned on by it, I just felt "more right" when I did it, but wasn't enough).  Knowing that magazine articles typically contain the most current information, the Readers Guide to Periodic Literature became THE tool for me, to use for finding most of the information - strangely enough, articles about transsexualism were listed in the 'Guide under the heading of "Sex - Determination and Control" (they had no subject headers for Transsexualism until at least the late 80s).  Once I found that information during that summer, that voiced to me "yeah!! this is me!!!!", I basically went bonkers trying to find out as much as I could (I remember friends and family asking me why I was spending so much time at the public library). 

Once I realized what was going on with me, things became kind of lonely.  I kind started to distance myself from people I didn't really know (I had friends, just not a lot of them), so they wouldn't find out about me.  I refused to date (yes, I'm a hetero woman, and even knew so back them - I only ever dated one woman for a short time, and only because my best friend at the time [1990] told me that a female bandmate of ours {yes, I'm also a musician} complained to him that I was ignoring her showing interest in me [my friend told me about it, and asked me what my problem was - "was I gay or something?"] so to get him off of my back I dated the female bandmate for a while).  I hated having to be butch, and refused to be so, but to avoid harassment, I acted masculine enough (but not enough to hopefully cause emotional distress - though I was still uncomfortable with having to do so), to keep people off of my back.  People still knew something was off about me (just not what it was), and walking the emotional/behavioral highwire I was on was difficult at best (I still slipped up once in a while, causing people to wonder why I was acting like a girl), and ended up with a fair amount of people thinking I was a weirdo, or a closeted gay guy.  That perception made me a target for bullying and harassment from some people from 7th Grade until 11th Grade.

I was almost caught in 9th grade (late 1978) hiding/trying to keep an article about some Milwaukee area transsexuals I found in a news magazine supplement that was in the Sunday edition of the Milwaukee Journal (which my parents subscribed to) by my mom, so out of desperation I came out to her (hoping she would help me - hey  it had worked from one of the transsexuals in the article I just mentioned).  It didn't go well at all - in a nutshell, her and dad had a few serious talks with me, stating that "people like that have a lot of problems, and you're not like those people.  You're really a boy, you just need to quit thinking about transsexualism, OK?" I said OK, and tried to agree with them (which completely and utterly failed within a month).  About 10 months later (in 1979), my parents discovered that I had "not gotten over thinking I was a transsexual",  and things got ugly.  After the yelling was over with, I was closely monitored (how was I acting, "what's that you're reading - show it to me!!", etc.), until I entered college (in 1982).  The time period of 1982, until I started transitioning in late 1998) was a lost period in my life IMO.  I couldn't find transitioning help at that left wing school I went to (the so called "progressive" University of Wisconsin [my alma mater IMO, is actually more PC than progressive, and since transsexualism was not PC in the 80s, the UW wanted nothing to do with it]), so out of desperation, since I liked flying and had seen the movie "Top Gun", I tried to get into the military to become a pilot, hoping it would be an "adequate substitute" for transitioning to female.  I actually got accepted into floight school, and went to Officers Candidate School (in early 1990).  That was a disaster.  I thought I could sort of be asexual - wrong!!!!  You were expected to be uber butch, which freaked me out and then some.  In retrospect it was a good thing that days after I got to OCS, I was medically washed out due to an old injury.  I would have gutted things out (I hate quitting), but I probably would have wound up killing myself down the road, over having to be a macho GI Joe (though if I could have been a GI Jane, things would have been OK).

After that fiasco, I realized that do or die, I had to be true to myself, so I started saving my pennies to transition and have SRS.  After years of trying to gut things out (I didn't want to wind up broke and stalled out as a permanent pre-op), I was still not close to what I needed financially, but I was at the end of my rope.  You didn't want to be around me by the late 90s (as a female coworker told me in 2001 [after I'd went full time] I was either angry, or I was sad, there was nothing else to me behavior-wise), I was getting suicidal enough that I probably wouldn't have been alive much past the year 2000.  So, I took a deep breath, got in touch with a Milwaukee area gender program I'd found out about in the early 90s, in Dec. 1998 (I was 35 at the time), and started the first day of really living my life.

Yeah, what can I say, things were kind convoluted for me.   :)

As for the Sarah Huckabee Sunders looks reference - I do kind of look like her doppleganger, but I'm really not a political junkie.   ;D

Ellen - who talks too much  ;D
I REALLY need to get going to work (it's a good thing I'm salaried, and have semi-flexible work start times).


P.S. - my mom and I were pretty close to each other pre-transition, and after I reconciled with her and dad shortly before my SRS (after being estranged for over 3 years) we became close relationship-wise again.  Ditto for my dad to a large extent (he was unhappy to say the least, when he found out in early 1999, that I had "NOT gotten over the little sexual problem, I had back in 1979").  I miss him quite a bit (it was sad to see him dying from cancer [I helped care for him a few days before he died, and he was in agony to say the least]).

Edit , June 22 at 9:33 PM - Ugh!!! Did I ever have to spell correct and clean up my grammar.  The way the post read, I looked downright dyslexic!!
HRT Since 1999
Legal Name Change and Full Time in Dec. 2000
Orchiectomy in July 2001
SRS (Yaay!! :)) Nov. 25, 2003 by Suporn
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Lisa_K

Quote from: EllenJ2003 on June 22, 2018, 05:55:59 AM
My sister and I played with her Barbies until I was like 7 or 8, when I was basically told not to do so.  My dad was Mr. Macho...

My real dad bailed when I was 6 because he was also Mr. Macho, a Marine and Korean War vet and an abusive bastard about my unquenchable girlieness and femininity. Confirmed by my mother later in life, I was the reason they broke up and I knew at the time what they were fighting about was me so I carried a lot of guilt around about that as a kid as if I wasn't already emotionally burdened enough.

QuoteI learned early on (in grade school in the early and mid 70s) that if you didn't want grief (like a not very intelligent, and very femme classmate was subjected to), you acted like "one of the guys."

I learned that from 1960 onward too. Unfortunately, there was nothing I could do about it so I was probably like your classmate and getting bullied and beat up back in my day was considered a character building exercise.

QuoteI also was still having slip ups where the real me showed (it wasn't a nice time when that happened).

The "real me" was the only me I knew how to be so your "slip ups" and the resultant consequences are all too familiar. I can see though that you know what it's like and how you were treated when something about your gender was seen as atypical or out of the norm. When this is your every day daily and you have to go to two or three different schools every grade because of it until the 7th (and even that one got off to a rocky start), it got really old pretty quickly as you might imagine. I'm not trying to compare battle wounds here or claim that I was special in any way but I do want people that somehow manage to make their way through my walls of text to have an idea of what a bizzaro land I lived in. It was quite surreal at times.

In our more enlightened times the kids like I was are the ones we see socially transition in grade school or middle school and the ones we do see in the media and stuff are out and proud but there's just as many and probably more that want to do nothing else but blend in and be just a regular kid. Man, how I wished I could have done that, optimally after the things that happened in the 4th grade I haven't talked about that were the deciding factor for getting me into counseling at that age in the first place. I can only dream of what the rest of my school years would have been like had that been possible but in 1965 such things would have been unethical as well as illegal. I'm certain to have had less scars both emotional as well as physical but it's all water under the bridge at this point and what ifs are pointless.

QuoteI started seriously cross dressing at age 12 (my mom tole me last year, that despite my efforts to hide that I was doing so, she knew I was cross dressing [I wore her clothes, which fit me better than my sister's clothes did - I also liked them more than my sister's clothes).

Hmm? When I started doing that is a hard question for me because it seems I don't remember ever not doing it? I know for certain I was openly and routinely swapping clothes with my girl cousin when I was six and in the 1st grade and improvised many of my own outfits such an old apron I was given for play clothes I wore as a dress and although it's kind of cliché, I did the towel or shirt on my head thing for hair until I had my own a few years later. Wow! Talk about a trip down memory lane! Wearing girl's clothes just seemed more normal to me or something and I have no idea why I did it? By the time I was 12, I was dressing gender neutral/unisex for school and had hair well below my shoulders and was quite androgynous but things were more relaxed at home and there were other ways I could be more expressive... not that I wasn't reminded how kids would make fun of me for looking like that. Kids made fun of me no matter what I did so it didn't really matter. I think my folks just wanted to make me aware of the consequences of my actions and behavior as if these weren't lessons I'd already learned and probably all too well?

Girl's clothes really didn't become a problem for me until I made my intentions clear when I was 15 and then that's all I wanted to wear every day. I was pacified by shopping in the girl's department for clothes that looked like they could have been boys although by the time I was 16/17 and was routinely passing outside of school, I'd become a lot more style conscious you might say? Not that I was some flamboyant campy princess or fashionista or anything, I just wanted to be like the regular average girls and I was pretty close and I'm not even sure at what point "cross-dressing" just became regular dressing? My mom was pretty good about finding things I wanted to wear that I could wear but it was always a struggle and argument.

QuoteThat, combined with seeing Renee Richards (who in the 20 or so years has turned out to be a bit of a kook) on TV,

Ah, good ol' Dr. Richards. The whole 1977 debacle was right about the time I was having SRS. I was not particularly fond of the sensationalization of transsexuality in the media nor the backlash and I got my first real taste of what the public really thought about people that changed sex but with everything being dragged into the limelight like it really hadn't been since Christine Jorgensen in the 1950's, it did help my folks to realize that I was not the only one in the world and some of the more sympathetic and informative stories helped them learn things they didn't know about the transsexual condition. It only drove me further into the woodwork because all that was the last thing I wanted to be associated with and it was all so cringy. Again, I didn't relate to it all that much as the story was "man changes into woman" which had never been part of my experience.

QuoteI refused to date (yes, I'm a hetero woman, and even knew so back them...

Ugh! Boys! I had my first real crush on a boy toward the end of the 8th grade and into that summer. I loved just hanging out with him and getting high and listening to records. He introduced me to reggae. We talked on the phone forever. I even climbed a tree in his backyard after him one day and wondered what the heck I was doing? I knew I had to keep my feelings to myself or he would freak out but my crush was short lived. Once his parents met me, he was no longer able to be friends or hang out with me and I was devastated. Apparently, I was a bad influence and they were afraid he might catch the ghey or something? My mom was livid and called his mom and had words but it didn't do any good. I'm sure I cried for at least a week!

Then after my "incident" when I was 15, I wanted nothing to do with any boy. They were just mean and I couldn't stand even being around them because I was kind of shell shocked and I was afraid of them and didn't trust them for a minute. It took a long time to get over that but I didn't date at all in high school either.

Quoteended up with people a fair amount of people thinking I was a weirdo, or a closeted gay guy.  That perception made a target for bullying and harassment from some people from 7th Grade until 11th Grade.

Yeah, not fun, huh?

QuoteI was almost caught in 9th grade (late 1978) hiding/trying to keep an article about some Milwaukee area transsexuals I found in a news magazine supplement that was in the Sunday edition of the Milwaukee Journal (which my parents subscribed to) by my mom, so out of desperation I came out to her (hoping she would help me - hey  it had worked from one of the transsexuals in the article I just mentioned).  I didn't go well at all - in a nutshell, her and dad had a few serious talks with me, stating that "people like that have a lot of problems, and you're not like those people.  You're really a boy, you just need to quit thinking about transsexualism, OK?" I said OK, and tried to agree with them (which completely and utterly failed within a month).  About 10 months later (in 1979), my parents discovered that I had "not gotten over thinking I was a transsexual",  and things got ugly.  After the yelling was over with, I was closely monitored (how was I acting, "what's that you're reading - show it to me!!", etc.), until I entered college (in 1982).

That's terrible. By the time I was in the 9th grade, I'd been seeing doctors for years without any idea at all what my parents had been told. I even spent a whole day being tested and evaluated at the university in a two-way mirrored fishbowl that was emotionally draining and very upsetting. I remember that day well and crawling in to back seat of our car and crying all the way home. I know at some point, probably with all the 7th grade nonsense I'd been through, they must have known something because that's about when all the "it's okay if you're gay" talks started happening. I don't think either I nor my parents understood or knew anything about transsexualism until we met the doctor they took me to when I was 17 that started me on HRT. All I really knew was that I was a girl that somehow unfortunately came out in a boy's body and that was fundamentally wrong and I needed it to be fixed. I know it sounds weird but this really had nothing to do with my "gender".

QuoteThe time period of 1982, until I started transitioning in late 1998) was a lost period in my life IMO.

That is sad.

QuoteAfter that fiasco, I realized that do or die, I had to be true to myself, so I started saving my pennies to transition and have SRS.  After years of trying to gut things out (I didn't want to wind up broke and stalled out as a permanent pre-op), I was still not close to what I needed financially, but I was at the end of my rope.

"End of my rope" is something I can relate to. I had been living full time for over three years and my "anomaly" was screwing up everything I wanted to do which was kind of have sex and relationships like other normal people and at something like $2.30 an hour and trying to live independently, I was so desperate, hopeless and suicidal. My folks couldn't help because they were strapped with my mom's medical bills already and my mom was not all that hot on the idea of surgery anyway and I felt completely stuck. Things worked out and I won't say how because people don't believe me but another minute longer and I'd have been a goner for sure. You can only look at things like this and think all things happen for a reason. How else does any of it make any sense?

QuoteYeah, what can I say, things were kind convoluted for me.   :)

Understandably so. Thank you, Ellen, for sharing so much of your story.
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itsApril

Thank you, everyone who has posted here, for these priceless personal accounts.  There is so much accumulated wisdom in this thread!
-April
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EllenJ2003

#17
Yeah, things were pretty rough for us at times (what you dealt with when you were young Lisa was no picnic to say the least!!  Yeesh!!!)  But you know something?  We reached the light at the end of the tunnel.   :)

As for my lost years - while I'm not happy about not having SRS during those years (1982 to 1998), there is the sobering knowledge that due to being microphallic, the techniques that were available for SRS at the time, would have probably given me a disastrous surgical result (my surgeon told me so), with little to no vaginal depth.  The technique that my surgeon used (which resulted in an excellent surgical result - I have plenty of vaginal depth, and tons of sensation) did not even exist until the early 2000s.  That knowledge, does mitigate some of the unhappiness over the lost time (before I transitioned and had SRS).

Crushes with boys?  Tell me about it.  In college I had a mega crush on my roommate (I'd known him since we were children - he was one of my neighbors).  To this day, I wonder why I did.  He wasn't exactly stud material (he was a relatively short, and chubby guy), and personality-wise, he was as crabby, and intolerant at times, as his dad was.  Then there was the unrequited love in the early 90s for my best friend (the one who I played in bands with, who thought he was "doing me a favor", by hooking me up with the only woman [another bandmate] I ever dated).  I did NOT take it well at all, when my best friend dated, and eventually married a certain woman.  The woman and I did not get along well (she was a bit of a drunk, and had a tendency to speak/ make outbursts before thing about what she should have said), and frankly until my friend got married, I had the forlorn hope that I would eventually have SRS, my friend would fall in love with me, and we'd get married.  I had to be a part of the wedding party (I absolutely hated it, and only did it as a favor to my best friend), and spent a goodly amount of time at the wedding reception looking as black as a thundercloud (which was noticed by other people - they kept on asking me why I looked so angry [I ended up telling people some lame-o lie, so they'd leave me alone]).

Congrats on 41 years of life after getting to the light at the end of the tunnel Lisa.  :)
Ellen
HRT Since 1999
Legal Name Change and Full Time in Dec. 2000
Orchiectomy in July 2001
SRS (Yaay!! :)) Nov. 25, 2003 by Suporn
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Complete

Gosh. I feel like I must have missed something. When I was in ninth grade l was heavily involved in my studies. Despite knowing my body was all wrong, l KNEW things would work out and all I had to do was keep my faith and continue to apply myself to those things which I would need later in life to live a happy and fulfilling life. For me, in the ninth grade, that  meant getting a good education and acquiring those life skills which would allow me to take control of my life, and acquire those things which l needed to be complete and fulfilled.
Less than a year after my college graduation, (1969),  l was in surgery and a year after that I was happily settled into the rest of my life.
It most certainly was not easy, but mor me, it could not have been any other way.
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EllenJ2003

Just a quick question while I'm getting ready for work at the ridiculously early time of 4:30 AM (ugh!! - I just want to go back to bed, but my ex boss [who is now the big boss] has deemed that many of us [including those of us who are are salaried employees - no overtime pay for me!  :( ] have to work a mandatory Saturday).  Did any of you get the reaction I got from my dad (and sister for that matter), when he "rediscovered" in early 1999 that my transsexualism had "not gone away"?  Dad told me in a matter of fact way (he didn't yell at me, like he did when I was a teenager in the late 70s & early 80s), that he would have accepted it if I had turned out to "to just be" gay, and could not accept me being transsexual.

It was kind of weird how dad rediscovered that my transsexualism had not gone away.  I was working on a Saturday morning in my office at work, when he called me from his workplace (my dad was a foreman in the maintenance department of a large manufacturing facility, and had to be at work overseeing some maintenance being performed on some very expensive machinery), asking me what my mother and I were hiding from him (my mom already knew I was transitioning, and dad could tell that something was going on between the two of us).  I asked dad if I could meet him face to face to tell him.  He said no, that he wanted me to tell him over the phone (I even remember overhearing him telling people in his office to leave, because he was having a personal phone conversation).  I asked dad if he remembered that "little problem I had back in 1979."  He told me he didn't understand me.  I reiterated my question to him, asking if he remembered "that sexual problem I had back in 1979."  Dad remembered it very well - so much so that he didn't say, "yes you wanted to change your sex", he said "so you think that by changing your body, it's going to solve your problems."  Things went downhill from there.   We met the following Sunday, and that's when he made the "I could have accepted it if you were gay" statement. 

Luckily like mom, dad reconciled with me shortly before my SRS in late 2003, and came to accept me as his daughter.  I miss him dearly, and wish cancer hadn't taken his life from him 3 years ago.

I'd better get going, work awaits me,
Ellen
HRT Since 1999
Legal Name Change and Full Time in Dec. 2000
Orchiectomy in July 2001
SRS (Yaay!! :)) Nov. 25, 2003 by Suporn
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