Depression and hot Flashes after Orchi?

[Quinn]

I've been now considering Orchi before GRS,  I'm still planning on having Grs in the future but I can get a orchi now fairly quickly and the recovery time is fast.


Starting Estrodial 14 months ago, about six months in my endo prescribed spiro to try and get my T down faster. The anxiety and depression was so severe it started suicidal ideolgy, this was all in a matter of 3 weeks time . Ive never expeirended that before so i was taken off because fo the side effects were so bad.


Decided to just try and knock down the T with estragen only HRT , not after 14 moths  my E is at 125pg , T is 370ng and Free T 1.6ng SHBG 217  , im on high dose of E . But there has to be a limit to how high i can go on it without complications.


So my question is having a Orchi  how bad the depression and hot flashes would be from going from the T levels above to 0 over nite ?

Have any of you had any experience with this or was your T down to nil already when you had an Orchi?


Quinn

[Dena]

You will avoid the hot flashes if your on either T or E. It's only when you go cold turkey and have neither in your system that you will feel hot flashes. For me the hot flashes were more of an irritant because I would have to adjust my temperature at the most inappropriate time. At night I would need to throw off the covers and during the day I might fan myself.

I didn't feel depression as the result of no hormones however my emotions were more sensitive. Things that shouldn't have bothered me did but I was quickly able to get over that.

[Quinn]

Thanks Dena for replying While going back reading  thru this thread quite a number of years I noticed that this that a few times people had touched on this subject that even while they had been on AA and pretty much T was 0 for a long time that is was not the same as how you feel after having a orchi and not having any T. NOt being ready for how they felt was mentioned .
But as I stated my T is still quite high after trying to get it down so I thought i should put the questions out there and see if anyone felt similar to how the few people that sorta touched on this response felt and would elaborate a little more if they felt that way. Was hoping for a few more responses one way or the other but I thank you for responding

[Kendra]

I had GCS 6 months after starting Estradiol-only HRT.  I have never been prescribed an Anti-Androgen. 
I didn't experience (or wasn't aware of) any post-op depression or hot flashes after losing the main T factories.

- 01/11/2018 T = 142 ng/dl
- 01/18/2018 GCS
- 04/18/2018 T = 18 ng/dl
- 06/04/2018 T = 10 ng/dl

[Chris8080]

Orchi was last September, was already on HRT and my doctor increased the Estradiol after the surgery. I've experienced no depression, quite the contrary, having the evil twins gone is so natural, so normal, so comfortable I've never been happier. No hot flashes either. I don't know if I'm the exception or not but these are problems I haven't experienced. I think Dena is right, the hot flashes or so I have been told comes from a lack of hormones, not from the lack of T. E replacement should take care of any such problem. What has your doctor said about it?

[Charlie Nicki]

I had the orchi on April 5th, and have recently started experiencing depression. I'm not a 100% sure it is related to the orchi since other life events have made the past couple of months really difficult for me but I definitely think my hormones have increased the sadness and guilt and all that comes with depression. I'm supposed to go to the endo in 3 weeks and depending on my test results, I'm definitely going to ask for a lower dose of E.

[Quinn]

Thanks everyone for responding, I'm just trying to decide to either just do the orchi or raise the E again to try and lower the T  before I will do an orchi anyway . Probably should just do the orchi and be done with it.

It would make life easier than trying to get the E to level then have to go off everytime a surgery is needed then get it back up like a rollercoaster
Would be safer to be on lower dose than im on now anyway

[Charlie Nicki]

Thanks everyone for responding, I'm just trying to decide to either just do the orchi or raise the E again to try and lower the T  before I will do an orchi anyway . Probably should just do the orchi and be done with it.

It would make life easier than trying to get the E to level then have to go off everytime a surgery is needed then get it back up like a rollercoaster
Would be safer to be on lower dose than im on now anyway

That was the number 1 thing that made me decide on the orchi. I really don't link the idea of stopping HRT for whatever reason...So if I ever have to stop I now know it's fine cuz my T will never be up. I also kept thinking about worst case scenarios where somehow I couldn't get hormones, I didn't want to depend a 100% on pills to keep my feminization.

[Chris8080]

Stopping HRT before surgery must be an individual doctor thing. I know some have been told to do so before surgery but my surgeon said only no aspirin or aspirin products for two weeks before surgery. I asked about the E because I knew that others had been told to stop, he said that wasn't a problem and I never missed a dose.

[Quinn]

I believe that it used to be standard procedure to  stop estrogen a little while before surgery because of the estrogens that were being used at that time. Now with new estrogen medications very slowly those standards are changing and  some surgeons are allowing patients to not stop HRT before hand. But I also believe it will take a long while before that comes to be the standard in pre surgical care.

Hope that I do not have to stop hrt for an orchi , will find out pretty soon about that

[Kendra]

My transition has involved four surgeries.  Two required stopping Estradiol, two did not. 

The surgery that involved the most time under anesthesia (13 hours) didn't require stopping HRT. 

[Donica]

Hi Quinn! I'm sorry to here you had so mush trouble on Spiron. I'm not sure, but I've herd that low T (or lowering T) can cause many different problems, especially if not supplemented with either E of T. I couldn't say for sure if you would be better off with an orchie or not. I have herd however, since you said you are planning on GCS, I wouldn't wait too long after the orchie to get my GCS because things will begin to shrink once the evil twins are removed, making it more difficult for surgeons to perform the operation. That is the only reason I don't op for an orchie, otherwise I would do it too. With my health, It would certainly be safer for me to stop taking Spiron. As for having to stop Estradiol before surgery, My Endo says she only reduces the E dose a little because when the evil twins are removed, your E level tends to spike. Hopefully someone who has had your experience and had an orchie done, will post more advice. Your Endo may be able to help you more with this. Good luck Quinn, with whatever you decide. Please let us know how things go!

[josie76]

Spiro can sometimes cause depression all by itself. It's not the most noted side effect but since it interferes with a number of enzyme activities that are needed to produce neuro regulating hormones and directly interferes with glucocorticoid and mineralcorticoid functions it is a known side effect. The majority do not notice it so it's considered a safe drug.


https://flic.kr/p/EjmXJw
Another thing to consider asking your endo about would be bioidenticle progesterone. The testes produce the majority of progesterone for the male body. This is the most direct path to building all other regulating hormones in the body. Without this production you might also experience depression as it is directly related to the body production of neuro-regulating hormones like  Allopregnanolone. This can have a direct effect on mood stability. Everyone is different.

I had an orch in April. My endo cut my estradiol by 1/3 after the orchi. Generally I did not notice any negatives of them being gone. I am on micronized progesterone and estradiol tablets. For me, taking progesterone really evened out my early HRT mood swings. One thing I have noticed is without the testes and back down to a lower E dose, I'd swear my body is going through a hormone cycling phase. I know a couple of days ago any little thing could make me cry. Now I seem back to ok again. Some girls swear we can experience hormonal period symptoms.

[christinej78]

I've been now considering Orchi before GRS,  I'm still planning on having Grs in the future but I can get a orchi now fairly quickly and the recovery time is fast.


Starting Estrodial 14 months ago, about six months in my endo prescribed spiro to try and get my T down faster. The anxiety and depression was so severe it started suicidal ideolgy, this was all in a matter of 3 weeks time . Ive never expeirended that before so i was taken off because fo the side effects were so bad.


Decided to just try and knock down the T with estragen only HRT , not after 14 moths  my E is at 125pg , T is 370ng and Free T 1.6ng SHBG 217  , im on high dose of E . But there has to be a limit to how high i can go on it without complications.


So my question is having a Orchi  how bad the depression and hot flashes would be from going from the T levels above to 0 over nite ?

Have any of you had any experience with this or was your T down to nil already when you had an Orchi?

Quinn

Hi Quinn,                          15 January 2019

If you read my signature you will see I did things rather quickly. I think the powers to be decided it would be better to humor me than to incur the ire of a cranky old lady.

I started HRT via Estradiol transdermal patches  27 March 2018. On Friday 13 April 2018 I had a Bilateral, Inguinal Radical Orchiectomy. I did not stop HRT before or during surgery and recovery. I had no pain and only minor discomfort the first two days that 6 Tylenol took care of. Did not need or use pain meds.

I was back doing my regular routine of heavy work a week and a half after the surgery. I don't recommend that unless you know exactly how your body reacts to surgery.

I've never had hot flashes or depression, never used AA's and have been happy since the surgery. My aggression has dropped to almost zero. I say almost because some aggression is learned, not driven by "He-mones." That has to be unlearned and I am progressing quite well with that. The "She-mones" / "Her-mones" have made my life better than it was. The aggression was with me for 77 years. During that time I had no idea where it was coming from, it was just there and was a part of me that caused, amongst other things, to make my life difficult.

Once the HRT started and the "T" was removed, my life became much better. Since I met the Love of My Life here at Susan's Place, I am Happier than I have ever been.

I'm here writing this because Dena saved my life the day after thanksgiving. I developed a DVT in my left leg. Dena and I were Skyping when I went to scratch an itch close to my left ankle. My leg was swollen and hot enough to light a match on. She took a look at it and told my to get to a real hospital emergency room immediately. She would have taken me had we not been 1000 miles apart. I went and they found two blood clots in my calf muscle.

Fortunately, there is a relatively new (2011) med called Xarelto, which they were able to prescribe rather than admitting me to the hospital, Four hours after I took the first pill I could see and feel the swelling diminishing along with the hot irritation. I'll be on this med for at least 6 months.

One of the reasons I mentioned this here is DVT's can occur to anyone, male or female, on estrogen replacement therapy. I DO NOT believe my DVT was caused by the Estradiol. I did discontinue it as a safety precaution until I get to my Endocrinologist on 11 February 2019. Yes, I miss my "Her-mones" but, I'm also pragmatic, I can wait until I have the all clear from my Doctor; she knows more about medicine and health care than I do. Secondly, DVT's are serious life threatening medical issues that require intervention by medical specialists. They are nothing to dismiss lightly or to neglect. It could cost you your life or health. Some of the consequences can be so severe you wouldn't want to contemplate them.

Thank You Dena Dear for saving my life; I Love You Dear.

Lastly, don't let the Radical scare you; all it means is the complete spermatic cord is removed and nothing is left dangling down into the scrotum. For anyone unfamiliar with this procedure, it is the least traumatic of the three types of orchiectomy commonly preformed. Don't be fooled by the term Simple Orchiectomy. The only person benefitting is the surgeon; it's only simple for them.

I hope this helps anyone contemplating HRT and or an Orchiectomy. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

Best Always, Love
Christine