Which hurts less

[Linde]

@Kylo, how or what do you define as "No go" area's?  I can remember that I was concerned (as a 6' tall male) to walk around in Frankfurt in the areas surrounding the main railroad station (that was in the late 60"s), and the same in Berlin Kreuzberg, or certain areas in Duisburg, Cologne, Hamburg and even Düsseldorf.  We just did not call them "No Go "areas (the Press invented that expression in Germany).  I have my doubts that anything has changed since then, and at that time, it were mostly native born Germans who made me feel very uncomfortable there.
I think if we can leave polemic out of our observations what is going on, we can see the realistic situation, and that has not changed very much since the 60's.  And corrected for population size, the thread to females even went down!
Are your sources of information associated with the AfD, or fancy this grouping?  If yes, I can understand this!

I cannot say anything about Sweden!

[Kirsteneklund7]

Moni I agree. 

I think its a matter of evolving over time.  I have been acting and dressing male for so long that my mirror is going to reflect what it's been looking at for the last 63 year.

I have only come to terms with being female in the last year and only started HRT in November.  What did I expect?  There are a lot of layers to chip away at.

Additionally I have begun to appreciate how massively complex the female world is: fashion, makeup, public decorum, safety concerns, and serious self doubt in the mirror.

...but I still want it. 

It just feels right but it still makes absolutely no logical sense...I know it's all about to the heart


Hugs,

Emma

It makes no logical sense. Aint that a fact! I often cant help but laugh at the ridiculousness of it all. Prior to 2016 I wouldnt dream I would be on full mtf hrt and dressing female in my spare time.

Im typing this wearing a nightie for gods sake!

If we stand back and think about it, -its absurd - but try to desist- try to forget the inner woman- she will get on your case and kick your ass in !  Let her do her thing and be nice to her and she will be a friend and ally.

Kirsten.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Emma1017]

Kylo and Linde I think there is a common ground.

Sadly, assault against all women, cis and trans, has been around forever.  It is impossible to compare the experiences or frequency of attacks between the 1960's to now because attacks in the 1960s were rarely reported to the police, If reported rarely made the local newspaper and even more rarely ever hit the global press.

We are massively more aware now thanks to the internet and globalization of the media.

The frustration is that we all thought that the world had progressed with greater acceptance.  Unfortunately Europe has had to absorb a huge shift of population from the Middle East and Africa.  They bring with them religious and cultural beliefs that are contrary to the social norms of Europe.   

For example more than 200 million girls and women alive today are victims of Female genital mutilation (FGM), also known as female genital cutting and female circumcision.  This occurs  in 30 countries in Africa, the Middle East and Asia that are predominantly Muslim.

In the US it is illegal to perform FGM on anyone under 18 years of age.

The challenge in a free society is how do you enforce national laws that run contrary to religious laws?  In NYC we have an outbreak of measles in children because a religious sect believes it contrary to God's wishes.

Thankfully no one still practices human sacrifice (that I know of).

[Emma1017]

Kirsten:

ABSOLUTELY ON POINT!!!! 

I keep saying this is all so, so,so surreal.  I am living it and even I am having a tough time getting it.  No wonder my wife can't get it! 

At least you are wearing dresses and nighties at home, I am still stealth in my own home! 

I am starting to accept my internal sense of gender, but my external presentation is a major subject of my doubts.  Do I accept that I look, act and feel like a woman?  Can I hope that others will see and accept me as a woman? 

Most importantly, can my wife possibly accept that I am a woman?  I have severe doubts that she can which leads me back to the start of this very long thread...which hurts worse?  I have already admitted to myself that I can't handle the pain that suppressing my feelings will cause.  If she can't accept, what is my alternative?

Exactly what I don't want to admit!  This just sucks...

Hugs,

Emma

[Linde]

In the US it is illegal to perform FGM on anyone under 18 years of age.

But it is the one individual country with the largest number of male genital mutilation!  Yes, Circumcision is considered to be genital mutilation by all health care professional in the western world.  There is no medical reason for it, it is just tradition and money making!
I am glad that I was not exposed to this barbaric procedure (and that is it, if you would be present at it, or had to deal with botched versions of it, like I have seen while still working), and I have enough penile skin left for any SRS, even with my atrophied penis!

[Emma1017]

I really don't want to spend a lot of time on this but there is a significant difference regarding circumcision.

I agree that male circumcision is unnecessary.  I was circumcised but it never affected my enjoyment of sex. In the US the old argument was that it was healthier and promoted better hygiene in males.  That concept is out-dated. 

Female circumcision is a considerably more invasive procedure and is not conducted for medical purposes.  In many cases it is deliberately done to remove the woman's ability to have sexual pleasure.

Linde my comments are not an attack on Europe but really my greater sensitivity of female issues on a global scale.  I am keenly aware of numerous social issues in the US.

The bottom line is we can't be passive about any assault because someone is a woman, cis or trans, regardless where it occurs in the world.   

Now about my own problems.....

[Linde]

I really don't want to spend a lot of time on this but there is a significant difference regarding circumcision.

I agree that male circumcision is unnecessary.  I was circumcised but it never affected my enjoyment of sex. In the US the old argument was that it was healthier and promoted better hygiene in males.  That concept is out-dated. 

Female circumcision is a considerably more invasive procedure and is not conducted for medical purposes.  In many cases it is deliberately done to remove the woman's ability to have sexual pleasure.

Linde my comments are not an attack on Europe but really my greater sensitivity of female issues on a global scale.  I am keenly aware of numerous social issues in the US.

The bottom line is we can't be passive about any assault because someone is a woman, cis or trans, regardless where it occurs in the world.   

Now about my own problems.....

I agree fully with you, in fact, I used to have a CC permit when I was living my life as a guy (I was politically relative active, and felt better to have a gun on me for a while).  But I allowed that permit to expire, because I never experienced any real problem, and that darn gun was sooo heavy.

Now, that I am a trans woman, who lost considerable amounts of muscle mass and strength, I really contemplate to renew my permit again and carry the gun with me in my purse.  Because I feel so much more venerable now, and hat to look over my shoulder all the time!  Why is this that we have to be afraid, just for being women?
I am still as tall as I was before, and nobody can see that I lost muscles if I wear long sleeved stuff,  but just because I am wearing a skirt, I have to moved into the prey category!
I somehow can understand some feminists, telling us we never can be like them, because they had to experience that fear all their life long!  Thinking about that, I dislike men even more than I did before!

[HappyMoni]

It makes no logical sense. Aint that a fact! I often cant help but laugh at the ridiculousness of it all. Prior to 2016 I wouldnt dream I would be on full mtf hrt and dressing female in my spare time.

Im typing this wearing a nightie for gods sake!

If we stand back and think about it, -its absurd - but try to desist- try to forget the inner woman- she will get on your case and kick your ass in !  Let her do her thing and be nice to her and she will be a friend and ally.

Kirsten.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

No one on this thread can give the Emma's and Kirsten's and Gina's on Susan's place an answer about how things will go for their partners. We can hope and some prey for good answers for you. As someone who has been through a transition and been on Susan's a while, I see some of the same fears expressed over and over. One fear that happens a lot is, "I'm not trans enough!" or "I don't think I have the right type of thoughts to really do what my heart is telling me I should do." I think a lot of doubt is created because maybe you are in the starting gate (or thinking about getting there) and you don't have thoughts like you have been through a lot of this. Why do beginning transitioners set up this standard that they must know everything? (Me, me, I did that!) Trust me (even more than you would a used car salesman), you learn what you need to as you go. Yes, there is awkwardness to start off with. We learn from our mistakes. If you know how to laugh at yourself you are ahead of the game. I'm just saying, deal with the decisions you are making, don't stress over step 94 when you are still on step 5.
   As for it being a ridiculous situation, yeah, it's surreal, unbelievable, and silly that we find ourselves needing what we do. It's no sillier than needing to be an Olympic curler (I love  to watch that sport) or dance on your toes, or be anything we are called to do though. I will say that once you do find your path and can follow it up to realize who you are, it doesn't seem so crazy. I'd call if more like fabtabulously delicious!
Moni

[Emma1017]

OK just a change of tempo about just today.  I was playing basketball and got hit in the chest with the ball.

WOW saw some really big stars but I kept on playing.  I shouldn't be that sensitive there...right guys?



...and Moni I get your point but technically I am a 14 year old girl so I don't want to get it

[Linde]

OK just a change of tempo about just today.  I was playing basketball and got hit in the chest with the ball.

WOW saw some really big stars but I kept on playing.  I shouldn't be that sensitive there...right guys?



...and Moni I get your point but technically I am a 14 year old girl so I don't want to get it

Doesn't matter what you want or not, your boobs will hurt from now on for quite a while when they get hit!  i am dealing with this for about 5 years now!  Welcome to the hurting boob wen hit club!

[Kirsteneklund7]

14 year old girls know everything. I think one should be president!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Emma1017]

but 14 year old's are toooooo smart to want to be President!  I'd rather go to Sephora.

Moni I have been making adult decisions all my life.  This one is way out of my league.  The answer is obvious but it constantly makes no sense.  As Kim has said many times I'm "going down the rabbit hole".

[HappyMoni]

Hmmmm! 14 year olds! Are we talking sleep overs and pillow fights? Count me in.

[KimOct]

I have a lot to catch up on after dinner but I was just replying to some PMs first.   

As I scanned down to find the end of all I missed I caught this line by Moni.

No one on this thread can give the Emma's and Kirsten's and Gina's on Susan's place an answer about how things will go for their partners.

Absolutely correct !!  We can hope and wish and encourage our sisters all we want but it is important to remember that this is a lot to ask a spouse.  Not exactly what they had in mind when they said 'I do'

I know people personally that it worked, and others that it hasn't.  If anyone predicts the outcome that is beyond ridiculous.

Gotta go eat and come back and get caught up so I can drop some additional 'pearls of wisdom'     

[HappyMoni]

While Kim is eating, Emma, I know you are both 14 and an intelligent adult. I hope what I say never comes off as lecturing you. I really only mean  it as encouragement. I appreciate that what you are going through is very scary.
Warmly,
Moni

Hi Kim

[KimOct]

Oh My where to start?

1. The Kylo Linde discussion.  My two cents are more opinion than fact.  Yes Europe is going through dramatic cultural changes for different reasons than the U.S.  There are challenges to living a safe, open, genuine life nearly worldwide.

It is important to remember than any marginalized group (ie the migrants ) does not automatically make them innocents simply because they are marginalized.  There are a lot of crappy people in the world that just happen to be being mistreated by others.  Many cultures have a problem with us.

We need to be safe and observant even more than cis women in my opinion.

2.  Moni - Curling !!  I did that a few years ago at the St. Paul curling club for a work event.  Bizarre.  It's a lot of work doing the brushing.  I was exhausted.  Good thing there was a bar attached. 

3.  Moni's discussion of early transitioners.  YEP.  Granted I have only had an orchie and HRT but I have been living this life for a few years now.  I do not have it all figured out.  I say that constantly which is why I usually only give advice about coming out and living authentically.  That part I've got down.  But believe me it was not overnight.

You stumble through this, learn the hard way and get better at it.  Those of us that are giving opinions and advice are just trying to smooth out the bumps a little.  At the end of the day you have to live it.

If we can do it so can you.  You just need the courage to move forward.

[Jessica_Rose]

Moni I have been making adult decisions all my life.  This one is way out of my league.  The answer is obvious but it constantly makes no sense.  As Kim has said many times I'm "going down the rabbit hole".

For some of us the decision is not so hard, it only took a few minutes for me. Once I realized all of my anger and rage was being caused by decades of suppressing who I was, I had no other choice which would result in continuing to live. The vast majority will never understand how we can make this decision, it seems insane, but we are the only ones who know why it is the right decision. I started HRT just over two years ago and I was just as frightened and scared as you. I was certain my wife would leave me. Now I am happier than ever, and in two months Susan and I will celebrate our 35th Anniversary. These last two years have been incredible, and three years ago I never would have guessed I would be where I am now. Going down the rabbit hole is scary at first, but it opens up a whole new world. Enjoy the journey.

Love always -- Jessica Rose

[Emma1017]

Really thank you Jessica. 

I am very afraid and very scared (just admitting that publicly must mean I am female, two years ago I would never have admitted that). 

This is the most profound thing that has ever happened to me. 

When I say I am out of my league I really mean it.  I am glad I finally realized it last year when I started having panic attacks.  My analyst really pulled me back.  You all helped me define what was happening to me and took away the immense depth of loneliness I felt.

My goal for the next year is to continue to process and evolve.  At some point it has to become very noticeable to my wife.  She is incredibly observant.  Her lack of comment speaks volumes.  Along the way she will need to decide and I will find out if we stay together or not.

God that is so painful to say.

I hope my growing strength and conviction is enough to carry both of us.


Hugs,

Emma

[Emma1017]

Moni and Kim you both are truly the emotional road crew that helps fill the potholes and smooth road ahead for us.  It prevents us from crashing and burning. Thanks

Hugs,

Emma

[Emma1017]

Ok so I was reading today:   Gender Dysphoria in Adults: An Overview and Primer for Psychiatrists Published online 2018 May 18  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5944396/ to try an yet understand what is happening to me and a simple question crossed my mind:

In spite decades of male hormones, male socialization, gender programming, male confirming social relationships, male confirming romantic relationships and very deep personal denial,  why is this female personality so strong that it overcomes all of this?