THE PERSONA AND THE SHADOW

[Kirsteneklund7]

Like many of us as I went through life I had an alter ego that was really just me. "SHE"would push through when my resistance was low. If I was working into the night by myself I would find myself saying the words " I want to be a woman" or " I wish I was a girl" or " I'm going to be a woman."
Then I would think - why do I do that? I always knew deep down I wished I was female but I thought it was just a quirk like fantasizing about being rich & famous. I gave up cross-dressing at age 13 and put the focus into chasing girls and that worked for a long time. Unfortunately more than one girlfriend discovered I had a thing about wanting to be a woman.

  Eventually (in my forties)  " SHE" was so insistent she pushed on through and had me on my knees - it was the end of my life as I knew it. Therapy and HRT and establishing a truce with "HER" started a new life.
  Like a lot of us I have read Freud and am familiar with the concepts. Carl Jung is a new thing for me and I find his concepts in popular literature everywhere. I came across the following in a great magazine I read called-"Womankind"(# 17 Unicorn)- a sister magazine to  " New Philosopher"

(Quote)

                                       LEARNING TO LOVE YOUR SHADOW


Jung developed many psychological theories which have entered the cultural mainstream: complexes, introversion, synchronicity, the idea that the psyche seeks wholeness and that the subconscious speaks to us through mythological archetypes. One of his most useful ideas is the concept of the PERSONA AND THE SHADOW. Jung thought that adults in a civilized society have to learn to play a role and wear a mask. - he called this the PERSONA. Its how we would ideally like to be seen by other people. Behind the mask we bury those aspects of our psyche we deem ugly, weak, shameful, unacceptable or humiliating, which other people may judge or ridicule. Jung called this the SHADOW. The SHADOW is a "kind of hostile brother", an " adversary", a "stranger", bitterly opposed to our PERSONA with all its fake posturing and social ambitions. It behaves like a devil, " and seems to delight in playing impish tricks". We keep trying to bury it, but like a zombie, it keeps reappearing and demanding our attention.

  If the gap between the PERSONA and the SHADOW grows too big, if a person is playing a role that is simply too fake, then the energy to maintain this division becomes exhausting, and the person may have a breakdown. The SHADOW becomes demonic filled with resentful and vengeful energy, hating the ego's false life and plotting to shatter it. The individual needs to find a truce, a way of reintegrating the SHADOW back into the psyche, rather than having it as a menacing adversary lurking in the window.

  The SHADOW is not entirely evil – it may be primitive, emotional, and socially awkward, it may play havoc with our ego's plans for status and glory, but its also source of power, healing, vitality, and wholeness, if we have the courage and maturity to face it. Jung wrote that the SHADOW is not just" slime from the depths ... this 'slime' contains not merely incompatible and rejected remnants of everyday life, or inconvenient and objectionable animal tendancies, but also germs of new life, and vital possibilities for the future". The PERSONA by contrast, is a fake construction, without soul, without life.

(Unquote).


Please tell me if you found this in your own FTM or MTF journey.

  Big fat hugs everyone, Kirsten x.[emoji214]

[Katy]

I can identify with the dualism Jung describes.  I think in each of us there is the person we want to be and the person we really are.  These two forces are at odds with one another.  I realize that this isn't exactly what Jung was saying in the quotation you attached, but it is somewhat similar. 

I sometimes think if we create unrealistic, impossible to achieve standards for the person we want to be, we create a framework where all of the negative forces in our life can gain a foothold.  Rather than an exhilarating journey, life becomes a series of disappointments.  Disappointment becomes the fuel that leads us away from being the person we want to be and becoming something else.  Again this isn't exactly what Jung wrote.  Living a somewhat disappointing life creates a longing for something to fill the gap. 

My two pence worth...

Thanks for sharing. 

All the best,

Katy

[Northern Star Girl]

@Kirsteneklund7
Dear Kirsten:
Very interesting thoughts... I have no disagreement with much of what you stated and also the "Learning to love your shadow" piece that you quoted is so in line with the thoughts that you expressed and so many of us have dealt with.

Thank you for sharing your insights with all of us... very much appreciated and very appropriate.
Hugs,
Danielle

[Gertrude]

Look up Donald Winnicott and true self.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Kirsteneklund7]

@Kirsteneklund7
Dear Kirsten:
Very interesting thoughts... I have no disagreement with much of what you stated and also the "Learning to love your shadow" piece that you quoted is so in line with the thoughts that you expressed and so many of us have dealt with.

Thank you for sharing your insights with all of us... very much appreciated and very appropriate.
Hugs,
Danielle

Thank you so much Danielle, maybe true self and facade could be substituted for Shadow and Persona.
For me finding rock solid clarity in being trans is a thing. I just know not suppressing and letting it all hang out takes the pressure off.
  I wish I had the same clarity you have.
  Love your posts by the way,
                                          Big hug, Kirsten

[lavish staircase]

It's been a hot second since I've thought about Jungian archetypes. Actually, that's a total lie - I brought Jung up at therapy a couple weeks ago so I could avoid talking about my shadow self. Now that that cat is out of the bag, the reckoning has begun.

You cannot kill what is an essential part of you, you will only make it stronger. That seems to be the ongoing theme here.

Seriously though, I feel you with the late nights thing - I had never really made that connection before, but the less you can actively suppress something, naturally, the more unsuppressed it'll get. It makes me wonder about what, if any, cognitive demands are required for suppression of this variety.

[krobinson103]

The REAL me was suppressed and became the SHADOW but She is immensely powerful and cannot be controlled. So after 30 years of more and more extreme measures to keep her down I broke and she smiled and said... I told you so. I haven't regretted that moment because she is ME the me I should have always been and I'm so much better for it not wasting untold energy stopping myself from manifesting.

[Kirsteneklund7]

I can identify with the dualism Jung describes.  I think in each of us there is the person we want to be and the person we really are.  These two forces are at odds with one another.  I realize that this isn't exactly what Jung was saying in the quotation you attached, but it is somewhat similar. 

I sometimes think if we create unrealistic, impossible to achieve standards for the person we want to be, we create a framework where all of the negative forces in our life can gain a foothold.  Rather than an exhilarating journey, life becomes a series of disappointments.  Disappointment becomes the fuel that leads us away from being the person we want to be and becoming something else.  Again this isn't exactly what Jung wrote.  Living a somewhat disappointing life creates a longing for something to fill the gap. 

My two pence worth...

Thanks for sharing. 

All the best,

Katy

Yes! Katy,
               I have found that too . Our modern, commercial, dog eat dog world fans the flames as well.
             Kirsten x.

[Kirsteneklund7]

It's been a hot second since I've thought about Jungian archetypes. Actually, that's a total lie - I brought Jung up at therapy a couple weeks ago so I could avoid talking about my shadow self. Now that that cat is out of the bag, the reckoning has begun.

You cannot kill what is an essential part of you, you will only make it stronger. That seems to be the ongoing theme here.

Seriously though, I feel you with the late nights thing - I had never really made that connection before, but the less you can actively suppress something, naturally, the more unsuppressed it'll get. It makes me wonder about what, if any, cognitive demands are required for suppression of this variety.

I love your offerings Lavish - they're infused with a degree of irreverence and wit. Please keep up the humor.
Also yes fighting the inner girl only makes her stronger. The only way out I can see is just let it all hang out she is really part of us and our friend.

  Kirsten.

[Kirsteneklund7]

The REAL me was suppressed and became the SHADOW but She is immensely powerful and cannot be controlled. So after 30 years of more and more extreme measures to keep her down I broke and she smiled and said... I told you so. I haven't regretted that moment because she is ME the me I should have always been and I'm so much better for it not wasting untold energy stopping myself from manifesting.

Well said Krobinson,
                              I think one could write an entire play with the dialogue that goes on between the Persona and the Shadow, the conscious & subconscious, the facade and the true self, the devil on the left shoulder & on the right.
It does feel so good to set her free.
  Yours truly Kirsten.

[Kirsteneklund7]

Look up Donald Winnicott and true self.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Thanks for putting that out there Gertrude - I'm going to check it out.
Kind regards, Kirsten

[krobinson103]

Well said Krobinson,
                              I think one could write an entire play with the dialogue that goes on between the Persona and the Shadow, the conscious & subconscious, the facade and the true self, the devil on the left shoulder & on the right.
It does feel so good to set her free.
  Yours truly Kirsten.

To be honest I had a mental meeting room and I'd meet with myself for the six months leading up to hrt and each day she became stronger and stronger and the social facade weaker and weaker. I felt I was going crazy but what was really happening was me becoming more sane. Now all that imagery is gone. There is only one me and it feels sooo good.

[pamelatransuk]

Kirsten

Yes I can certainly relate to this. I think the world never or only in the rarest of cases, sees out true personality as we all hide aspects of our inner self for the sake of reputation, ambition or friendship. So to some extent we are all acting if only to a small degree, all of the time

However as transpeople we become more expert at acting as we know the inner conflict is greater and hence requiring more time and energy to fight or at least keep at bay. There comes as point which you and I and several thousand others here on Susan's have experienced, where we become too fatigued and disillusioned to continue the fight. The dam is burst. We release our true self. As you say,  we let it hang out. We feel better and interact better. We are free finally. Is there anything of greater value than freedom!

Hugs

Pamela

[Kirsteneklund7]

So good to hear from you Pamela.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[pamelatransuk]

Always nice to share things with you too, Kirsten.

Yesterday I updated the "Comparison" thread on HRT Board with your results and my revised result.

Hugs

Pamela 

[Angelic]

My story is similar to yours. I cross-dressed as a teen, but in public I would never admit to anyone I was a sissy. The cross-dressing was compartmentalized, if someone asked me if I had cross-dressed, I would say no, and believe I was actually telling the truth, even if I had crossdressed a few weeks ago.

Where mine and yours story differs, is the shadow-system is not so easily explained.
For example, at my lowest breaking point, when I give up and am at tears, I feel like a true female trapped in the wrong body. Like I am a female Jesus bearing the cross of my male burden. All I see is a world of hurt and pain in others and myself. I think about how noone loves me or wants me romantically. Then I think about the rotten people in the world, the humans destroying nature and corrupt politics. And I want to be a spiritual god to save the planet.

But then, other times, when I am at low points, where I am miserable, bitter, and jaded, but not in tears. I am envious and resentful towards women. And then I think about wearing girls clothes. And then my shadow self says to me, no. That I am just a hedonist. That I am letting down males of the world. "That's all they want me to be, a pathetic eunuch. Someone who submits and obeys. One of those feminized liberal males." Then my shadow self tells me I am a pathetic loser. That I am worthless until I man up. And how ugly I am, and how I ought to stay out of the gene pool because my genes are not perfect.

Generally, I ignore them. And then I go out in public, I want people to care about me, and see my pain, but noone ever does. And I walk around with this deep hatred in me, wanting to lash out at people. And the more I lash out, I realize I will go to jail for punching people. So it makes me even more angry to think about, how utterly controlled I am, obedient to "the system", and not allowed to punch anyone or start fights. And it makes me seethe with rage even more.

[CandyFreedom]

Dear Kirsten,
I can certainly relate to this, and being a lifelong fan of Jung should have been better prepared.  My Shadow/Inner self was forced to stay inside by family tragedies and trauma when I was a teen, a need to get a job and get out of the house, and wait for a safe place in life to "Be Myself".  "She" was tucked away. My Mask/Facade was hardworking, had a great sense of humor, and "He" kept Her alive and nurtured Her by occasional private and not-so-private drunken expressions of herself, creatively as an artist and sexually/sensually as a woman.  He was a nurturing, loving husband and dad.  When She finally decided she could no longer wait inside, and that it was safe to come out, she came out fast!  At first she was highly sexualized, but then as He scrambled to push her back in, She expressed her emotional side, her loving side, her real need to be part of the Whole Me.  We even wrote letters to one another (Dear Marty....Dear Candy). Carl Jung would be so happy!! The tipping point was when I gave up drinking entirely six months ago and entered an addiction rehab program, and rather than Her going away, She was alive and well and healthy and helping me to be myself.  She is necessary for my mental health. 

I equate the experience of the past months as that of being turned inside out.  All the Shadow/Real Me guts come pouring out and I'm trying to control and contain it, while scrambling to keep the Mask/Facade/Shell on the outside enough to keep my job and family and sanity.  It's not easy, but I'm making it through.  I feel comfortable telling you all this, and that's a big step for me.  Thank you for giving me a safe space to be me.  My Mask and my Shadow are becoming friends now.  He feels like he can breathe a little easier and let Her grow and come out.  She feels like she loves Him for keeping her alive all these years, not denying her, and protecting her until it was safe to come out.  I feel like one person again, although still not sure where all this is going.  I don't need to lose Marty to express Candy. And I'm switching to They/Them/Theirs to honor the whole me.

Thanks for the post, and thanks all for your love and help. You're the best!

Love!
Candy

[Allison S]

Generally, I ignore them. And then I go out in public, I want people to care about me, and see my pain, but noone ever does. And I walk around with this deep hatred in me, wanting to lash out at people. And the more I lash out, I realize I will go to jail for punching people. So it makes me even more angry to think about, how utterly controlled I am, obedient to "the system", and not allowed to punch anyone or start fights. And it makes me seethe with rage even more.

Wow! That's how I feel! It's not even anger it's rage, you're right... Sometimes I think about self harm. I mean no one would care anyway right? Hah it would be kinda fun, but I don't want scaring on my body... I don't know why I care? It's not like it matters. I was basically an empty shell for years pretending. Everything I do I try to cope and get to the next day right now. Yeah... I'm scared this is the rest of my life.. I hope not

[krobinson103]

Wow! That's how I feel! It's not even anger it's rage, you're right... Sometimes I think about self harm. I mean no one would care anyway right? Hah it would be kinda fun, but I don't want scaring on my body... I don't know why I care? It's not like it matters. I was basically an empty shell for years pretending. Everything I do I try to cope and get to the next day right now. Yeah... I'm scared this is the rest of my life.. I hope not

I remember the anger and rage. It lurks in the back of my mind but with no fuel is slowly disappearing. I controlled it by inflicted as much non permanent pain (extreme exercise) on myself as possible. The suffering that caused was stronger and helped to compensate. Now I look back at my drive to do difficult things and see someone running from themselves.

I have found the more I transition - regardless of what I can't change - the less power it has. Now I almost never feel angry. In addition, allowing myself to truly live as me allows me to accept that my brain and body will never quite match and I am non binary and thats ok. The only time it surfaces is if my new life is threatened then its back but this time focussed on removing the threat not running in circles of self hate.

[Allison S]

I remember the anger and rage. It lurks in the back of my mind but with no fuel is slowly disappearing. I controlled it by inflicted as much non permanent pain (extreme exercise) on myself as possible. The suffering that caused was stronger and helped to compensate. Now I look back at my drive to do difficult things and see someone running from themselves.

I have found the more I transition - regardless of what I can't change - the less power it has. Now I almost never feel angry. In addition, allowing myself to truly live as me allows me to accept that my brain and body will never quite match and I am non binary and thats ok. The only time it surfaces is if my new life is threatened then its back but this time focussed on removing the threat not running in circles of self hate.

I see what you're saying... I don't know what I need to help right now. I just question "what makes a woman a woman?". I know that seems pretty obvious right? I don't know. I'm just taking these hormones and trying to find a new style of clothing. It seems a bit redundant and I know surgery right now just doesn't make sense to me personally. I don't see how surgery will really convince others I'm female... Yeah I get attention from men easily in public, but am I actually "passing"? Lol I doubt it... I think I feel pity from women? Or it could be in my head I don't know.

I didn't meant to be so depressing in my posts but Krobinson you make very sound points. It's very much moment to moment coping at times. And accepting "that is okay" is okay lol