Feeling depressed after 12 years transition

[JungleJulia]

Hello everyone, I'm new here, my name is Julia I'm 32 and I'm from Italy. Didn't knew if I had to present myself in the presentation section but I'll do it Here. I started hrt at 18 and did my srs at 21, fully changed papers at 22. Accepting family and friends, always had boyfriends and lived happily as the girls I was supposed to be. I'm 170 cm tall, always passed without any major surgeries but I had my chin and jaw shaved by Bart last year. Never had problem find a job or to socialize, my ts friends describe me as the poster child for successful transition. All of this looks amazing on the outside, but inside, I'm broken. As broken as u will ever imagine. I had the luck of a body that perfectly match the one of a cis woman, the face bone structure was good, it got better with hrt and surgery, I have an high pitch voice since I was a child, small hands and a 7 shoes size. The bottom surgery went so well that no one of my boyfriends ever guessed. It looks like I'm bragging but I'm not, I'm trying to explain my situation.
I'm a fraud. I fell like I'm the biggest fraud of them all. Even tho I'm technically perfect as a woman, I feel as a woman, I fell like a carbon copy, a fake. I look at myself in the mirror and I still don't like what I see, I just see a men that pose as a women. This thoughts lead me to sex work, to gain money for surgeries I know I don't need, to chase a look that I know I can't have. Unrealistic expectations? Yeah. All I ever wanted was to be a normal girl, a cis woman. At 30 I started realising that I'm not, that I can't have children, that I will be a fraud for the rest of my life. I don't know how to escape from this hole, I can't accept what I am, I can't accept I'm a trans girl. So the suicidal thoughts began, the depression, the isolation.
The question is: do I have to accept of being a trans girl? How can I live a life feeling as a fake? When I'm near a real woman oh my god, I feel like a boy in a dress.
Thanks for any reply and sorry for the bad grammar.
Julia

[Allison S]

Hi Julia, I can relate even though I'm a year into my medical transition. I always feel like a fraud. I also think about the things I'm doing for my own comfort and the things I do for other's approval. For instance, I don't love wearing makeup daily, but I do wear eyeliner, mascara and lip stick/gloss to give other people cues.
I do feel like I have to compromise a lot but I also was tired of being seen as a "man" with facial/body hair, rough skin, and stocky body... I couldn't shave, moisturize or diet enough to keep up with testosterone in my body.
Well, I identify as a trans woman still, but I think even as trans women we have to embrace androgyny. I see feminine features after a year on hrt, but I also accept that at least male development is stunted.
I know that probably doesn't come close to your experience. I still feel down and depressed and sometimes it's because I didn't transition sooner. A lot of the time I feel down and depressed because I wasn't born cis female in a very binary culture that defines a LOT about a person based on their sex/gender. There's life experience I can never have and only dream of. That feels like a huge loss and I think grieving is very normal.

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[JungleJulia]

Hey Allison, thanks for the reply, I know I'm not alone in this. It's a common topic being depressed as a trans girl, but feel like a fraud is consuming. I don't know how to quit sex work, the scariest part is that a pose af a cis woman with clients and every time I feel terrified and as I'm selling a freaking LIE. I don't want to do this anymore, I want to go back working in shops like I used to, but my mind tell me "no, u need the money for other surgeries". It's like I'm in a trap I can't escape from. I know I can have a normal regular life but it's like a demon inside me doesn't want me to...

[AnamethatstartswithE]

I'm curious if you are stealth. If no one outside of your ts friends knows that you are trans then you may just be dealing with the fact that you are hiding a big part of yourself. One of the problems with stealth is that you are basically back in the closet again. That could be part of your issue.

[JungleJulia]

Yeah, Ive always tried to live as stealth. Even tho during the years I disclosed my past to my closest friends, I have always had problems telling about myself with job collegue and boyfriends. When I date someone I always wait from 3 weeks to 3 months to tell them I'm trans. I don't like to be look at as a freak. It's too soul consuming to kept the secret, I should embrace what I am but I'm too ashamed. I don't want to be studied as soon as I disclose my past, like I'm an lab rat. I just don't know what to do, I know some fellow sister would kill to pass as I do, but in reality, it means nothing, u get more depressed cause u look like a real woman, but u re NOT.

I'm curious if you are stealth. If no one outside of your ts friends knows that you are trans then you may just be dealing with the fact that you are hiding a big part of yourself. One of the problems with stealth is that you are basically back in the closet again. That could be part of your issue.

[Northern Star Girl]

I'm curious if you are stealth. If no one outside of your ts friends knows that you are trans then you may just be dealing with the fact that you are hiding a big part of yourself. One of the problems with stealth is that you are basically back in the closet again. That could be part of your issue.

@AnamethatstartswithE
You are absolutely correct....  I have personal experience to back that up.... 
...coming out and then going full-time are two of the most life-changing and life-liberating experiences that I have ever had.

Hugs and well wishes,
Danielle

[Virginia]

My heart goes out to you, JungleJulia. You are not alone; learning to love oneself is a struggle many people face. The way we feel about ourself is deeply rooted in our childhood experiences and the way we were raised. This would be an excellent topic for therapy.

[Janes Groove]

So the suicidal thoughts began, the depression, the isolation.
The question is: do I have to accept of being a trans girl?

IMO. Yes. Absolutely.  We are not cis women. We are transgender women. Nothing will ever change that.  To entertain any other ideas is akin to banging one's head against a brick wall. It accomplishes nothing and hurts like hell.  You can learn to love yourself.  The creator made you the way you are. There is NOTHING wrong with you.

There are five stages of grief:
1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

You are definitely experiencing, bargaining, and depression.  It sounds like you are starting to get past denial and anger. You are making progress.  It takes time. 
Like all of us who experience a big loss we need to grieve what is lost to move forward.  Then we need to move on.

You can get to acceptance but it takes work and it takes honesty and it takes time.

I would suggest you touch base with your local transgender community and find a good real life support group.  I find it's very grounding to share experiences with other transgender women.  And it's a great reminder of who I really am.

[Faith]

I will likely never 100% physically a woman. I do know the 'fraud' feeling and how easily it can build. No matter what others see, you know in your deepest regions that you had to be 'made' into what you are rather than created.

It boils down to self-acceptance. At some level you have not accepted yourself. I haven't either. I feel it, but I know otherwise. Acceptance is a necessity.

It's hitting you harder due to longevity of not facing it. I wish that I had some magical words to make it all better, I don't. All I can do is commiserate.

Faith

[JungleJulia]

I'm sitting here crying like a fool girls, every single words of yours hits me like a bullet. I've never accepted Julia. I'm 32 and 12 years after transition and still suffering. I spent all theese years trying to become something I'll never be. Maybe the fraud thing came from that, pretending to be a cis woman for over a decade. The struggle to be always perfect, always judging yourself and every step you take. The sex work worsened everything. The low self esteem, the obsession for money and beauty.
I would like to trying to live a normal accepting life. I don't want to pretend anymore, it consumed my soul. It's also fair to say that I ve developed a pain killer addiction due to escorting, it was the only way to numb the pain away. Men only seee me as a sex object, the fault is also mine, I've always tried to brough thing trough sex. I feel like a horrible human being, my cis friends are all supporting, loving, trying to let me know that I can have a regular life like the rest of the world, but I have this freaking voice inside my head that tells me U RE NOT ENOUGH.
I want to thank each one of u for the kind reply. 
Love

Julia

[Lisa]

Accepting yourself is something that many people struggle with, both cis and trans.  It's also very easy to compare ourselves to others and set impossible standards for ourselves.  I've certainly struggled with those myself, but my transition story is a little different - maybe it can offer a little perspective if nothing else.

I grew up in a place with a lot of hate for the LGBT+ community, and I worried so much that I would never be accepted, or that I'd face violence or be fired or denied housing; because of all that baggage, despite thinking about transitioning since my late teens, it took me until my early 30s to reach a point were I finally did something about it.

I started transition knowing that there was a reasonable chance I would never pass, or be accepted by friends or family or coworkers.  I started transitioning because I'd reached a point where trying to live as a guy was so painful that I was thinking about suicide on a daily basis, and I almost went through with it a few times, so I figured transitioning couldn't possibly make things any worse.

Am I still a little disappointed and frustrated that I'm not a cis woman?  Absolutely!  Do I feel like a fake or a fraud or an imposter?  Occasionally on a particularly bad day, but not very often.  I'm not trying to be or impersonate some fictional cis version of myself or obsess over being stealth though - I'm just making whatever reasonable medical changes I need to feel more comfortable in my own skin, and whatever social changes I need to feel like I can be myself in public and have more genuine relationships with others.  In many ways, I feel like much less of a fraud now than I did before I started transitioning.

[KatieP]

It boils down to self-acceptance. At some level you have not accepted yourself. ... Acceptance is a necessity.

Truer words have never been shared in this forum...

I think those words are true for every human. They are just harder when one's perception is out of the supposed norm...

Kate

[Karen_A]

I'm sitting here crying like a fool girls, every single words of yours hits me like a bullet. I've never accepted Julia. I'm 32 and 12 years after transition and still suffering. I spent all theese years trying to become something I'll never be. Maybe the fraud thing came from that, pretending to be a cis woman for over a decade.

I come at this from a different perspective...

First you don't owe anyone one except a spouse (or a spouse to be) your medical history... AS LONG AS you are being yourself.

It's one thing if you are not being yourself in some way SO THAT OTHERS EXPERIENCE YOU as a gg, that is indeed being fake... But if you are being yourself behaviorally and emotionally, even if you don't tell you are neither faking nor lying.

So how are you living your life? Do you think about acting a certain way to be seen as gg or are you just being yourself.  If not just being yourself you need to ask yourself why...

After 12 years of stealth if you just have let yourself be yourself you should be pretty much resocialized as a woman...

To be stealth I think one not only has to pass very well to others but one needs to accept oneself warts and all as woman ...

Remember not all ggs can have children...

For someone like you it really depends on how you see yourself and how much you can live in the present and concentrate your similarities to other women rather than dwell on your  differences from them.

While it seems to be a minority opinion here, I think the vast majority of TSes would rather be mostly stealth (I think we all need few people who know in our lives) but many of us can't do it for various reasons.

I mean who (and particularly if still relatively young) wants having had to change sex define us for the rest offer lives? Yes it happens and many have to deal with that... but in the long run I think most would rather just be able to get on with a relatively normal life both socially and professionally.

But if you truly don't see yourself as woman, and particularly if that goes deeper than insecurity, then stealth is definitely wrong for you...

But before you do anything irreversible... maybe seeing a gender therapist who does not advocate either out or stealth to work through your feeling and what you want /need might be in order.

I'm 20 years post-op. I'm not stealth because my situation never allowed it, but i really wish this was not still as big as part of my life as it is, because I am not stealth.

- Karen

[Allison S]

I'm 20 years post-op. I'm not stealth because my situation never allowed it, but i really wish this was not still as big as part of my life as it is, because I am not stealth.

- Karen

By "this" do you mean being trans?

Julia, I'm sorry sex work has made you feel down on yourself. Trust me, I know when men approach me, make sexual comments or show interest and expect me to recipocrate, I know how disgusting it makes me feel. It warps my mind to think "I lost my power" or "I'm seen as an object". These thoughts linger a bit for me even, and I've never done sex work (though I've been offered and had a "friend" mention what kind of money I can make).

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you need a way out of sex work and to help yourself. You said so yourself, now please try to do what is best for you. I'm not saying anything is wrong with sex work, but if you're continually saying it's damaging to you and making you feel like the devil has a hold on you...then that's a huge red flag.
You're not alone in this, there are many young women who publically speak about their difficulties with sex work.

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[JungleJulia]

Yeah, I do thing stealth it's not for me anymore. I'm comfortable in my skin, I like how I look and I like what I see in the mirror, I just don't like to pretend to be a cis woman. I'm not. I've always argued with my therapist when I was a teenager when he used to tell me that the first thing to do is accept myself. I used to tell him "no, I will never accept this, I'm going to be the real deal", and even after years of therapy, that though stayed with me. I just wanted to be "normal". U know the feeling right? So the years passed by, and u never really accept that u re born in a boy body. But I don't wanna spent the rest of my life like this, it's really hurtful.
U know, I just wish I could love myself for what I am. See the luck that I had with my family and my body instead of thinking I'm just a fake. Maybe that's just what 12 years of living stealth do to your mind.
All of your stories really made me feel less alone. I know I'm not alone, I just should have more ts friends. I just have 2, both sex worker and both in denial. The rest are all cis women and men.
I will look for ts support group in my area for sure.

[Karen_A]

By "this" do you mean being trans?

Not being able to be stealth... In other words being known to be trans... It colors things in a lot of people's perception of you even when they like and "accept" you.

BTW i did not want to comment on teh sex work... i would think that could (but not always) result in self esteem issues.

- karen

[JungleJulia]

Accepting yourself is something that many people struggle with, both cis and trans.  It's also very easy to compare ourselves to others and set impossible standards for ourselves.  I've certainly struggled with those myself, but my transition story is a little different - maybe it can offer a little perspective if nothing else.

I grew up in a place with a lot of hate for the LGBT+ community, and I worried so much that I would never be accepted, or that I'd face violence or be fired or denied housing; because of all that baggage, despite thinking about transitioning since my late teens, it took me until my early 30s to reach a point were I finally did something about it.

I started transition knowing that there was a reasonable chance I would never pass, or be accepted by friends or family or coworkers.  I started transitioning because I'd reached a point where trying to live as a guy was so painful that I was thinking about suicide on a daily basis, and I almost went through with it a few times, so I figured transitioning couldn't possibly make things any worse.

Am I still a little disappointed and frustrated that I'm not a cis woman?  Absolutely!  Do I feel like a fake or a fraud or an imposter?  Occasionally on a particularly bad day, but not very often.  I'm not trying to be or impersonate some fictional cis version of myself or obsess over being stealth though - I'm just making whatever reasonable medical changes I need to feel more comfortable in my own skin, and whatever social changes I need to feel like I can be myself in public and have more genuine relationships with others.  In many ways, I feel like much less of a fraud now than I did before I started transitioning.

Wow, all of this. U really made a good point. I'm sorry for your hard background but I'm happy to read that now u re in peace with yourself. I envy u, really. Thank u so much for your share, it put a smile on my face. We just have to love ourself

[HappyMoni]

Julia,
   Life is about making adjustments. We transition to what we think will make us happy. If it doesn't, it becomes time to transition again even if that means just tweaking things a bit. We have to mentally realize sometimes that the original plan must be changed. I would ask you if you are a person who hurts others? Are you essentially a good person? If the answer is yes, then you have nothing to be ashamed of. No one has any right to judge you for being in the sex trade. No one has the right to judge you as a person for being trans. Rebuild the things you don't like in your life. The physical things are a distraction in your case. Start being honest with yourself about what you want to change. Take the steps you need to and leave the guilt behind. It is counterproductive. Accept yourself as a person and the trans part of that person will become less important. Build your life with supportive people who you can be yourself with. I'm betting the real you is pretty cool. You have some pretty cool people telling you some good advice above. Just my 2 cents!
Moni

[Complete]

So here is a bit of perspective from someone who transitioned around the same age as you did. I had my srs at 23, almost 50 years ago. Like you, l was quite attractive and found myself working as a very well remunerated stripper. Unlike you, l made a very conscious decision to not engage in sexual acts for money. Fortunately for me, that was one of the cardinal, unbreakable rules of the agency that employed me. It was also a matter of self esteem and self worth. Sex with a man was something very,  very special for me. In addition to all the pain l had to endure to realize that dream, for me it really was something of a miracle.
One of the things that was made very clear to me in those times when it was being determined that srs was the correct path for me, was the very clear understanding that l would never,  ever be "the same as" a "real" natally born female.
So. Would l have any advise for you? No. I am sorry. This is something you will have to resolve for yourself. One thing that might be helpful is to be perfectly honest with yourself  as to what your situation actually is.
It sounds that you are still attractive and you seem to have enough money to take well enough care of yourself.
Short of what you describe as a seemingly pathological need for an endless series of cosmetic surgery you seem reasonably well balanced.  Why not take  a step back and try to figure out where you want to be in 5, 10 years. ...And how to get there.

[EllenJ2003]

Hi Julia,

Another long-time post-op here (15 years and counting).  Like many of us, there are times were I am unhappy that:

A.  It took me until age 40 to have my SRS - believe me, I did try doing it at a younger age - I told my parents in 1978 at Age 15 that I was really their daughter (it did NOT go well - they fought me about it until literally weeks before my SRS), and trying to transition at the university in the 1980s was depressing to say the least - there were NO TRANSITIONING resources at the time.  It took me 5 years after I started transitioning in 1998 at age 35, to scrape up enough money for SRS.  It would have been easier to get married at a younger age (and possibly adopt children to have a family), but hey that's all water under the bridge. 

B.  I wish I could have been able to get pregnant, and have children.  Well, that's not possible, and even if it becomes possible in say 10 or 15 years, it is a moot point.  I am already 55, and I would be in my 60s or 70s - way too old to have children.

C.  Like many of us, I wish I looked better - but then again so do many cis-women.  We can't all look like supermodels (though my mom thinks I am an attractive woman, and I've always had passing privilege).

Despite the three things I mentioned, I have NO REGRETS about transitioning.  I was in a very bad place in 1998, when despite not having enough money to see things through to SRS, I decided to transition.  It had literally become a case of life and death for me.  I was suicidal most of the time (I did some very dangerous things that could get you killed, because I didn't care if I lived or died, and used to run along the shore of Lake Michigan when I was feeling very low, with the express intent of taking off my running shoes if the emotional distress got worse, and taking a one way swim in The Lake [I almost did it several times]), and probably would have been dead by 2000.

I also have absolutely no regrets about having SRS - I was definitely NOT a non-op (I used to cry if I saw my male genitals in the vanity mirror, when I got out of the tub from a bath).  In 2002, when I ran out of money, due to taking a huge cut in pay because of corporate downsizing, and it was looking like my worst fear (that I would end up permanently stuck as a pre-op, due to a lack of funds) was coming true, I came the closest I ever came to suicide.  I started wading into Lake Michigan for that one-way swim.  To this day, I don't know why I didn't do it.  I remember standing at the water's edge for well over a half hour crying my heart out - I must have found some inner strength I didn't know I had, that kept me from making my suicide attempt successful.  Luckily a year later, the situation improved enough, where by working very hard, and scrimping and saving every penny, I was able to have SRS.  As far as I'm concerned, SRS was a lifesaver for me.

Julia, there is nothing wrong with being stealth of that is what you really want (after being out and proud in my last job, I went stealth back in 2004 [when I started my present job], due to getting tired of being known as "the person who had a sex change", who was constantly outed at work by people, who felt it was their "duty" to tell everybody what I did).  The thing is though, I always told myself, that I would remain true to myself.  I may not be butch, but I'm definitely not girly-girl, and was not about to be that way, just because I thought it "would help me pass or fit in better in society, or validate me as a woman."  Sorry, I was not about to be forced once again (like I was forced to live as a man) to be someone I am not, and self validation has never worked for me (I find it to be an empty endeavor for myself).  So yes, I ride motorcycles (I have a BMW R1200R naked sportbike), and yes I play guitar (both acoustic and electric), and yes I kept my amateur radio license - they are all aspects of me (along with my love for reading).  Many women do those things (as a mater of fact, I have talked to quite a few of them).  Are you being true to yourself Julia?

Just some food for thought, and just my opinion - Ellen