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Disclosing Transgender at Work, without full transition

Started by Karen, August 29, 2018, 07:40:58 AM

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Karen

Hi all. 

Does anyone have any perspective or shared experience in sharing they are transgender at work, without a firm decision or plan to fully transition?

On the one hand I have understand that employers and colleagues have a hard time with a lack of clarity (ie on the gender spectrum and I am balancing it) and do better with certainties (ie I am transitioning on this date). 

On the other hand, baby steps toward an authentic self do get noticed and raise questions, and when you hold a position of trust at work, I can see value in being open about whats happening.   Especially in today's world of non binary.    My sense of self tells me that if this step was taken it would ultimately mean I would want to transition further and the ball would move and roll faster. 

Would value any perspective and experiences.

Hugs

Karen
Karen

* felt different like I did not fit, with strong feminine feelings and gender questions my entire life
* Sept 2016 - January 2017 real began to seriously question and research gender
* August 2017 friend explains transgender and gender vs sexual orientation, and immediately felt shock and begin to believe I maybe transgender
* March 2018 after 3 therapists, accepts I am transgender and am transitioning
* July 18, 2018 began HRT
* Feb 4, 2019 began Estrogen
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KathyLauren

As far as your co-workers are concerned, I think the gender they know about (or presume) should match your presentation.  Otherwise, it just makes an inherently confusing process even more confusing.  If you are not planning on changing your presentation at work, there is nothing to gain from telling them about your gender identity.

On the other hand, telling HR long before you transition may be a good plan.  It allows them to ensure that policies and sensitivity training are in place, and that they will be ready to support you when you do transition.
2015-07-04 Awakening; 2015-11-15 Out to self; 2016-06-22 Out to wife; 2016-10-27 First time presenting in public; 2017-01-20 Started HRT!!; 2017-04-20 Out publicly; 2017-07-10 Legal name change; 2019-02-15 Approval for GRS; 2019-08-02 Official gender change; 2020-03-11 GRS; 2020-09-17 New birth certificate
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Northern Star Girl

Quote from: KathyLauren on August 29, 2018, 05:07:34 PM
As far as your co-workers are concerned, I think the gender they know about (or presume) should match your presentation.  Otherwise, it just makes an inherently confusing process even more confusing.  If you are not planning on changing your presentation at work, there is nothing to gain from telling them about your gender identity.

On the other hand, telling HR long before you transition may be a good plan.  It allows them to ensure that policies and sensitivity training are in place, and that they will be ready to support you when you do transition.

@KathyLauren     cc:@Karen
Dear Kathy:

You are absolutely right on with your advice.  No need to advise others in your employment situation that you are transitioning when you are still presenting fairly well in male mode.  Why would one want to cause possible problems before you are ready to come out.???   
Your thoughts about advising HR before that time is a good move, that will give the management time to fine tune their transgender policies that previously may have not been properly developed yet.

Well before I went full time I had been on HRT for a year and a half, presenting at work in male mode the best that I could until about a year into my HRT, things were getting difficult to hide, and not just my boobs.  I was making subtle changes all along... eyebrows, hair removal, fingernails, longer hair styles, etc.  Instead of coming out at work I was fortunately in the position to end my employment while still in male-mode... although there were lots of coworkers that knew that "something" was going on, and more than likely some knew exactly what was going on with me.

After leaving the company I immediately went Full time female mode and relocated here where I am now to start my own woman owned small business.   At that point I was 100% passable.   I was also in the position of having a skill that I could move on to my own self-employment.... as a CPA I could virtually write my own ticket and set up business just about anywhere.

So, again, Kathy, I concur with your thoughts....
Thank you for your posting.

Hugs,
Danielle
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  •  

Kirsteneklund7

#3
Quote from: Karen on August 29, 2018, 07:40:58 AM
Hi all. 

Does anyone have any perspective or shared experience in sharing they are transgender at work, without a firm decision or plan to fully transition?

On the one hand I have understand that employers and colleagues have a hard time with a lack of clarity (ie on the gender spectrum and I am balancing it) and do better with certainties (ie I am transitioning on this date). 

On the other hand, baby steps toward an authentic self do get noticed and raise questions, and when you hold a position of trust at work, I can see value in being open about whats happening.   Especially in today's world of non binary.    My sense of self tells me that if this step was taken it would ultimately mean I would want to transition further and the ball would move and roll faster. 

Would value any perspective and experiences.

Hugs

Karen



I think Danielles' first hand experienced advice is very good. There's probably not much benefit telling the work team early but giving HR a heads up at the right time could smooth the way.
Karen I'm personally going the route of an " organic transition" much like you are. I have been taking a reactive approach rather than a proactive one as I address my gender issues as I need to step by step.  My life is better on HRT - I struggle without it. Being on full dose since the beginning of the year now I'm finding the questions are starting at work and in public. Questions like " You look different since I saw you last - what is it." Also my more empathetic & feminine disposition gets questions & I find female staff sharing personal issues with me.( At this stage I can only dream about being one of the girls!) I'm still a way to go until male fail - but until then the team doesn't know until I have something solid to put forward.
  I think the world of non-binary simply doesn't hold water in the standard workplace, only solid strategic moves & plans of attack work. In the meantime we can feminize until the time is right.
Karen, I can see from other posts that you value honesty and trust. I believe that having the hard answers to the hard questions ready to go can maintain ones integrity. At work if I get put on the spot I am happy to answer straight up that I receive treatment for gender dysphoria and then explain what that means.
I'm sure your team already holds you in high regard and that can be maintained through the " between genders " phase.
I would love to hear some of your first hand experience as well,
   Kirsten [emoji214]
As a child prayed to be a girl- now the prayer is being answered - 40 years later !
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Karen

Thank you. 

I appreciate your advice and experience. 

Kirsten, it does sound like we are on a similar journey and have the same perspective on handling direct questions. 

I am very well known at work and can't go anywhere without comments.  Restaurant servers are asking.

- you look different, especially your face
- have you been down south...tan
- you look great
- nice purse from sexist guy...new briefcase
- your hair is darker

25 pounds less, longer and slightly darker hair, bit of make up, etc

Someone will figure it out.  And I am sure they are taking.  My boss and peers no longer say anything. 

My wife's boss said I look 15 years younger and he thought I was my wife's son.   Pissed my wife off 😀

I just say I've lost weight to feel better, and have longer hair...over 50 / mid life...and have never felt better. 

We will stay the course, but I do worry what too far looks like or what happens.  But I can't go back with out serious distress. 

Thanks.  Hugs

Karen
Karen

* felt different like I did not fit, with strong feminine feelings and gender questions my entire life
* Sept 2016 - January 2017 real began to seriously question and research gender
* August 2017 friend explains transgender and gender vs sexual orientation, and immediately felt shock and begin to believe I maybe transgender
* March 2018 after 3 therapists, accepts I am transgender and am transitioning
* July 18, 2018 began HRT
* Feb 4, 2019 began Estrogen
  •  

Kirsteneklund7

Good on you Karen. Wishing you smooth sailing.
           Kirsten [emoji569]

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

As a child prayed to be a girl- now the prayer is being answered - 40 years later !
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KatieP

So, while the consensus is to not tell people at work unless you are actually transitioning, I have gone a different path, and have found benefits.

I am not really out at work, and because my position is completely dependent on customer trust, my own transphobia likely keeps me from ever coming out on the customer side. However I have enjoyed significant support from coworkers who do know. Having people at work with whom you can be honest, and open can make all of this at work easier to deal with. It's sort of like co-conspirators with an inside scoop. I have liked it, and have been quite happy I have told several people at work.


Kate
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Karen

Thanks everyone again.

Katie, I also appreciate the counter view.   

I have changed and I know people wonder...I do think at some point I will have to say something to some people.  If I am confronted directly by HR or my boss, I think I have to say something.  Option 1 is "I am taking care of myself and have never felt better"; option 2 is "i have a neuro biological condition that is rare and deal with gender dysphoria...and I have made steps to address it...and have never felt better and you will be the first to know if things change"

Option 1 sounds like the easiest, but it does bother me that world is not more open and trusting and I believe those of us later in life can help pave the way for others.   

Anyway, just thinking out loud at this point.  And I really appreciate all the discussion and perspective.  Please keep it coming.

Hugs

Karen
Karen

* felt different like I did not fit, with strong feminine feelings and gender questions my entire life
* Sept 2016 - January 2017 real began to seriously question and research gender
* August 2017 friend explains transgender and gender vs sexual orientation, and immediately felt shock and begin to believe I maybe transgender
* March 2018 after 3 therapists, accepts I am transgender and am transitioning
* July 18, 2018 began HRT
* Feb 4, 2019 began Estrogen
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RobynD

Like Kirsten, it was organic for me but the big difference is I was a founder/owner of the company. My perspective is it different as I presented as feminine leaning male for quite some time, but once I began the transition and people asked me, I was like yep...i'm a girl and the pronouns began to change. I started signing emails as Robyn and the day I did that a coworker came up and said... "Cool! Robyn with a y, I like that "

The culture, your position in it and potential downsides have to be taken into account, if things are relatively safe, then coming out before presentation may be a good thing.


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MissKatie

I feel that if you are going about it in baby steps (as am I) then people will think firstly that you are just taking care of yourself more and more until one day someone asks "are you wearing mascara?" or in my case "are you wearing fake nails?" to which I replied "I am".

you dont have to justify why you are wearing what you are wearing to anyone or tell them about it at all.
I feel we can't turn overnight from one gender to the other and just say here I am.
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Lisa

I'm planning full transition, but I don't have a super clear timeline as it depends on how things progress with facial hair removal and HRT changes, and finalizing on my name (ugh! Why does picking one have to be so hard?).  I came out at work after a few months of HRT, once I reached the point that I was worried people might start asking questions, but before I was actively presenting as female.

I work at a place that has very supportive policies for LGBT+ folks, and I don't usually interact with customers or business partners face-to-face, so I thought it was better to let my management and coworkers know what was going on and start making gradual social changes.  So far, it's been a very positive experience and everyone has been accepting and supportive; in many cases I'm now treated like "one of the girls" socially even if I don't totally look the part yet, and I feel like I can act and dress how I want at any time and people will be ok with it.  Just the fact that I no longer feel like I have to hide who I am it work is a massive relief!

I spoke to a lot of other people at the company and at other places with generally very supportive corporate policies for LGBT+ folks, and it seems like most people at least try to go for a much more sudden presentation change and wait until they're much closer to that to come out.  I got some comments from people who thought I was super brave for coming out so early in the process, but my personal view is that if I'm lucky enough to work at a place where the official policy is that the entire company is a 'safe space', I might as well take advantage of that!

I think it's been a good experience both for me and my coworkers.  A few of them actually have other transgender friends in their personal lives, but for most of my coworkers, I'm the first openly transgender person they've known in real life, and the only thing they had to go on before were celebrities and stereotypes.  I think being very open about the process and why I'm going through it, and having other people see that I'm still the same person they've known for years, but I'm just happier and more expressive and engaged socially, has a way of 'normalizing', for lack of a better word, being transgender.  I think there are more people around me now who are actively conscious of LGBT+ folks and the kinds of issues we face and who are trying to be good allies not just with me but with others as well, where before they might never have thought about it or might have made rude jokes without thinking, etc.
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Shambles

I did this last week to 2 memebers of management, due to other stuff happinging with me i think im not going to be working there when i do go fully out but thought it was good for them to know.. and i trust them. I dont regret telling them... quite the opposite.

By telling them they get a better insite into me and possible mood swings, it also allows me to goto them descetly if i need to move shifts around to acomidate something that related to transition. U dont habe to come out to all but direct managments is a good idea imo
- Jo / Joanna

Pre-HRT Trans-Fem
16th Nov 17 - Came out to myself
7th Jan 18 - Came out to wife
31st Jan 18 - Referred to GIC / might be seen in 2020
Oct 18 - Fully out at one job, part out at another
Nov 18 - Out to close family
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Chloe

Quote from: Karen on August 30, 2018, 05:24:34 AM

I am very well known at work and can't go anywhere without comments.

        Karen as long as your doing your job and well liked I'd say Hakuna Matata - "no worries be happy". Of course every employment situation is different but why on earth would someone accuse or directly confront you? In my 30yr career (now retired) the only change I made was moving above to below wing, from direct public contact to background operations support which had a uni-sex uniform and much more latitude for casual personal expression. Could tell you many stories of "co-worker interactions" but, in general, during the course of a busy workday have found "light humor" tends to work much better than any form of "dramatic, serious discussion".

        Chances are people are already forming opinions, making assumptions about you so all you really have to do, in the nicest, most honest manner possible, is look for opportunities to either confirm or deny them . . . and think you will find they will like you all the more for it!

         For example: Every Tues it was always me and two big burly black guys working the same area assignment. One day when management decided to send extra-help in the form of a new hire, a female, I screamed at both of them "hell no! I'm the only girl working on this pier" and both just immediately BUSTED OUT LAUGHING, my only affirming what they had suspected all along!

         lol As the senior agent I got what all wanted and new hire was assigned somewhere else!  ;D To friends @ work my nickname was "ponytail" and a fellow oldtimer, always pestering me, one day elaborated and said "hey [lastname],you look like a girl why don't you get a haircut" to which I replied, as straight-faced as possible, "as long as I'm not an Attractive Girl To You what do you care?" lol he never did mention my hair again!

Just try to have fun with "being yourself"!

"But it's no use now," thought poor Alice, "to pretend be two people!
"Why, there's hardly enough of me left to make one respectable person!"
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Karen

Thank you all.   

This is all helpful.   

I will have to respond to a direct question from my boss at some point.   Other than saying I am good and have never been healthier, I have to decide whether to let him know about GD.   Out of integrty, a big part of me wants to.   I cant afford to put my career at risk, for my kids and family. 

Hugs

Karen
Karen

* felt different like I did not fit, with strong feminine feelings and gender questions my entire life
* Sept 2016 - January 2017 real began to seriously question and research gender
* August 2017 friend explains transgender and gender vs sexual orientation, and immediately felt shock and begin to believe I maybe transgender
* March 2018 after 3 therapists, accepts I am transgender and am transitioning
* July 18, 2018 began HRT
* Feb 4, 2019 began Estrogen
  •  

Bari Jo

I will speak from my experience.  I told my boss and HR about 10 months ago.  Part of the reason is so they can answer questions in my favor in case any were asked.  We also developed a plan of coming out which was all my choosing.  I told them my plan was to slowly dress and present more femme till I was ready to come out to everybody.  Then I'd send an email and ask for hr to inform the team on bathroom policy and how I'm supported. We'll that time is next week and the time has gone fine.  I wear makeup, have painted nails, dress femme every day with embroidered jeans leather high heel boots, pink hair, it's really obvious, but I've gone so slowly that I like the ride and I've had zero trouble from coworkers.  Some have guessed.  I told some others.  It's all been good.  I recommend how I did it.

Bari Jo
you know how far the universe extends outward? i think i go inside just as deep.

10/11/18 - out to the whole world.  100% friends and family support.
11/6/17 - came out to sister, best day of my life
9/5/17 - formal diagnosis and stopping DIY in favor if prescribed HRT
6/18/17 - decided to stop fighting the trans beast, back on DIY.
Too many ups and downs, DIY, purges of self inbetween dates.
Age 10 - suppression and denial began
Age 8 - knew I was different
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barbie

Yes. Culture and situation differ for each person. In my case, I always present as woman here in my university.  I did not say anything about my gender identity, but staffs in the administrative departments surprisingly know me well, even though I do not recognize most of them. Probably they talked about me a lot and are informed well, but nobody directly talked to me. A merit is that I do not need to speak my name and department when I need to get certified documents from them. They all know my name. I was surprised.

barbie~~
Just do it.
  • skype:barbie?call
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anne_indy

Barbie - I have always thought that Korean culture was fairly conservative, and from my interactions with Korean academic colleagues, that they are generally very formal compared with American academics. Do your colleagues (and students) address you by your feminine first name, or is it always Professor xxxx? In the cases that I am aware of (primarily in the US), it was always been a big deal when a professor came out as transgender and began to come to the university in their preferred gender.

Thanks,
Anne


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barbie

Quote from: anne_indy on October 06, 2018, 06:51:55 AM
Barbie - I have always thought that Korean culture was fairly conservative, and from my interactions with Korean academic colleagues, that they are generally very formal compared with American academics. Do your colleagues (and students) address you by your feminine first name, or is it always Professor xxxx? In the cases that I am aware of (primarily in the US), it was always been a big deal when a professor came out as transgender and began to come to the university in their preferred gender.

Thanks,
Anne


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Anne,

Yes. You know very well about Korean culture. I also thought like you. But there is another aspect here. I can not pick up what it is, but the word 'change' may vaguely describe it. Here, everything has changed rapidly compared with other countries. Young people here do not care so much about what other people wear or do as long as it is legal. People here seem to be ready well for any change in social norm.

Another factor I guess is Buddhism. Although a significant portion of the population here is Judo-Christian, most Korean are under influence of Buddhism. Contrast to the western countries, Catholics are most liberal and open-minded here. Thus, religious people have never caused any problem in my journey of transition (albeit without hrt).

At my university, especially at my department, it has been funny. My feminine presentation of course caused a lot of concern. But, faculty members used to say it is OK as long as the students accept it, and students seem to think it is OK as long as their professors accept it, and etc. I can say that all people I have talked regarding my feminine presentation said they themselves can accept me, but just worry about possible negative thoughts and responses of the OTHERS. But those OTHERS say exactly the same to me. I interact frequently with government officials here, and they seem to think it is OK as long as people at my university accept it, and it is not their business. My wife and kids say it is OK as long as other people accept it. It is an interesting cycle of excuse, but above all, as long as my wife supports me, and nobody can meddle in our family affairs any further.

Finally, the most critical one, I guess, is that I have been at a kind of inner circle of elite people. Here education is the most important factor in determining the social position of a person. It may be true in other countries, but in Korea and probably in Japan/China, educated people are far more highly regarded. Here most people have a kind of trauma from preparing for college entrance exams. They know very well how much difficult it has been for me to reach my current position, even without my curriculum vitae. Whatever I do, people generally assume that I am doing a kind of right thing. As long as my performance as a researcher and an educator has not been disappointing, nobody can seriously challenge me even if he/she indeed is determined to do. Also, I got a tenure position here early.

And, a minor factor, I guess, is palatability (or passability). I remember that my mentor during my Ph.D. course in the U.S. mentioned the term 'palatablity' when we talked about my gender identity and future career after I first wore skirt in the campus. I have maintained my body figure by regular exercise.

Yes. In retrospect, it was not easy at all. I am also sometimes surprised at the flexibility of those seemingly conservative and sometimes bigot people. A fact is that faculty members and students here see me far more frequently than I see myself in the mirror, accustomed far more rapidly to my new image.

Hoping this will explain a part of your question,

Cheers!



barbie~~
Just do it.
  • skype:barbie?call
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HappyMoni

Depending on where you live and who you work for, coming out may offer you more protection from negativity by others than trying to gradually approach the 'changed you.' There is no rule that says that once you announce the real you that you must hurry up and get things done. I work in a school and I announced to my coworkers a good 8 or 9 months prior to showing any change that I was trans. In my case, it gave folks a chance to get used to the idea. I mainly did it because I could not longer stand it. I thought I wanted control of my story, and the only way for people to know the real story was from me. Because I work in a school, I thought it only right to change my appearance over the summer break. This proved to be a good strategy. The not too complimentary comments I had gotten about my hair growing suddenly turned to, "Oh you scared us when you said you had news to share. I thought you were moving (or sick, etc.)." I will say my boss was shocked when I told him. I told him that by the time our meeting was up, I needed to know if he was supportive. He was, but I think the wheels were turning in his brain as an administrator about how this might play out. He mentioned possibly as much as 3 meetings to make sure staff was respectful. We never needed one. Yes there were some who got quiet and talked behind my back, but there were many more who stood up for me. Most of the dissenters have now accepted the new normal. I would say this. If one is going to transition anyway, I see no real advantage to drawing out the uncertainty. People don't respond well to uncertainty. So many of my coworkers appreciated that I trusted them with my news. They felt that I respected them. It's funny but I told my story to about 90 coworkers. I got a standing ovation when I was done. I also got about 20 people giving me hugs. The  funny thing was one male friend who came up to give me hugs, he opened his arms wide and said, "Brother!" I got what he meant. lol
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
"Never let the dark kill your light!"  (SailorMars)

HRT June 11, 2015. (new birthday) - FFS in late June 2016. (Dr. _____=Ugh!) - Full time June 18, 2016 (Yeah! finally) - GCS June 27, 2017. (McGinn=Yeah!) - Under Eye repair from FFS 8/17/17 - Nose surgery-November 20, 2017 (Dr. Papel=Yeah) - Hair Transplant on June 21, 2018 (Dr. Cooley-yeah) - Breast Augmentation on July 10, 2018 (Dr. Basner in Baltimore) - Removed bad scarring from FFS surgery near ears and hairline in August, 2018 (Dr. Papel) -Sept. 2018, starting a skin regiment on face with Retin A  April 2019 -repairing neck scar from FFS

]
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Sarah1979

As some of you may know about me if you've read some of my messages, I was on DIY HRT for about 6 years, ending about 6 years ago.  I have been overweight for almost my entire life, but have begun losing weight recently after reading that many surgeons will not operate if BMI is over a certain number. To that end, I've (currently) lost about 20 pounds in the last month and a half.  As my weight over the rest of my body has begun to disappear, the feminine attributes I gained during my hormonal period have become more and more obvious.  This has become somewhat problematic as I work as a professional driver for the 3rd or 4th largest trucking company in the US.  I have been noticed more and more, which, to my mind is somewhat puzzling, as to my eyes, I am quite male looking.  I am planning on restarting HRT (legally and under doctor's supervision this time) very soon as I have just received my HRT recommendation letter :D.  Any recommendations from the peanut gallery as to when I should inform my company officially?  I wanted to wait until I had some pretty serious hair reduction and maybe FFS, but it seems like maybe the clock is starting to tick a bit faster now.
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