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Glucosamine / Chondroitin

Started by Renate, January 04, 2008, 07:01:36 AM

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Renate

There have been various studies on the effects of this "dietary supplement".  Some of
them have been inconclusive.

On another topic HRT Meds from walmart for $4 w/o insurance the issue of quality of drugs came up.

Doc says that the hydrochloride is better absorbed by the body.

So whatever you're buying, check the small print on the back and make sure that the glucosamine
component says "HCl" or hydrochloride.
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SusanK

Thanks, and you point out one thing, to read the label for the right ingredients. I would add that it's also important that while many argue there is little difference between low-cost and major label health supplements, there are differences in chemical quality, body absorption, production methods, cross-contamination, etc., so paying a little more for the name brands does help. Saving a few bucks won't help in the long term when you discover it didn't help or help as much as a better product would have. It's pay now or pay more later.

As for your comment on joints, I've been using Biochem's Glusosamine Complex which has Chondrotin and three different Glucosame complexes for over a dozen years and it's extended the life of my knees considerably, especially being a jogger/walker/hiker (15-20 miles a week).

--Susan--
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Doc

Yep. Glucosamine hydrochloride has greater bioavailability than glucosamine sulfate. Brands using the sulfate won't work as well.

Chondroitin sulfate is this huge molecule that's difficult for the body to absorb. The best sort is refined to a lower molecular weight. Unfortunately, the label won't tell you if the supplement is made with highly refined chondroitin or el-cheapo ground up shark bits.

All the actual studies reporting that glucosamine/chondriotin supplements work (for dogs, at least) were done using the 'Cosequin' brand, made by Nutramax labs. It is really expensive and has the chondriotin of the lowest molecular weight anybody can get, or so Nutramax claims.

Nutramax markets their veterinary-use supplements for dogs, cats, and horses under the name of 'Cosequin' but also offers a variant intended for humans, called 'Cosamin.' It's the same, except for the little bit of maganese being a slightly different level. 'Cosamin' for humans is cheaper than 'Cosequin' for dogs, and you can buy 'Cosamin' at Wal-Mart. (The shelf of glucosamine supplements at the Wal-Mart around here is huge and confusing, you will have to look hard. The "Cosamin" bottle comes in a box.)

Research says, glucosamine works best in a complex with chondriotin, and without adequate manganese in the diet (or included in the supplement) is less effective.

For dogs and cats, the difference between brands can be very noticable -- often what happens is that a dog-owner starts giving her dog a glucosamine supplement from the pet-store, and this works well for a while, but as the dog ages it becomes less effective. We'll suggest they try the top-shelf 'Cosequin' brand and very often the dog's performance-levels will improve again, often better than it did when the original pet-store supplement was working at its best. Something of a pity, really, one wonders how well the dog would be doing if he'd been on the higher-quality supplement the whole time.

http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/%7Edms/ds-savvy.html is a little blurb from the FDA about how to choose a good supplement. SusanK knows what she's talking about. The trouble is, sometimes, like in this case, reading the label might not help, because you don't know what you're reading for. Who knows all this stuff about glucosamine besides people like me, where it's our job to know? If you've got a doctor you can ask, ask her. And visit the websites of the manufactuers and find out what they say about their quality-controls, and if they do chemical analysis breakdowns for herbals, and bioavailability assays for everything.


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Jaiden

I'm backing you all up and agreeing that the stuff works great. Used it for after a knee surgery I had years ago and now for my ankle.

I use a liquid form for better absorption but it is horrible tasting!  :icon_blah: Anyone know of a decent tasting liquid form?
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Doc

I'd speculate that liquid vs. solid is not going to make a difference in absorption, that being a molecular sort of thing.
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Jaiden

Well maybe not absorption but I've heard that some of the pill forms won't dissolve completely and they end up in the stool. Years ago when I started taking it, I used pill form and it seemed to take longer to take effect (1 1/2 months) than the liquid (3 weeks).
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Doc

Renate, maybe not such a mystery --- one substance that is labelled as 'Glucosamine HCL' might have a much higher molecular weight than another labeled the same way. You absorb the lower molecular weight one easily and it works well, the higher molecular weight one gets tossed out by the body and doesn't do much. To make it worse, it's entirely possible that a manufacturer of the supplement might change suppliers so that one batch works well for you and another batch doesn't. It sounds as if Wal-Mart's brand has gone so far as to change suppliers from one selling glocosamine HCL and another selling the sulfate. This kind of inconsistantcy is a problem with supplements.
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Jaiden

Just wanted to note that I recently started using this for an ankle injury but noticed it has been working great for the bursitis that I've had in my shoulder for 10 years. So any of you suffering from bursitis should give it a try. I would say my pains are nearly 70% gone!
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