A question for Cis crossdressers :)

[MissKatie]

I'm transgender and that includes wearing female clothes. As I still live day to day as a man currently due to insecurity and job issues, it's got me wondering what the difference is between trans people and Cis crossdressers.

This isn't a hate post or anything nasty (as I was accused of when I asked this before ((not here)) just a genuine question to try to understand in my mind how cis crossdressers feel about their gender compared to how trans people feel about their gender.

It'll also help me clarify some things in my mind about my own insecurity and hopefully anyone else who think about these things

[GordonG]

I really can't answer your question adequately.  But I'll say that I've been crossdressing by various degrees for about 10 years. 
There is a saying I read once that says the only difference between a crossdresser and a transgender woman is about 10 to 20 years. In my case that is true.

[Devlyn]

Not to nitpick, but this is the lingo we speak here:

Transgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynes, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and ->-bleeped-<-s.

Crossdressers are transgender. I think the answer to your question is that a crossdresser wears opposite gender clothing because they want to, whereas a transsexual may be wearing them to align their appearance with their minds.

Hugs, Devlyn

[Kirsteneklund7]

Hi Katie,
I think a big one is the CIS crossdresser values and doesnt want to relinquish the male identity.

A transwoman doesnt value the male identity as something to hang on to.

Kindest regards, Kirsten.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Michelle_P]

Not to nitpick, but this is the lingo we speak here:

Transgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynes, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and ->-bleeped-<-s.

Crossdressers are transgender. I think the answer to your question is that a crossdresser wears opposite gender clothing because they want to, whereas a transsexual may be wearing them to align their appearance with their minds.

Hugs, Devlyn

I would like to mention that I do know crossdressers who identify as cisgender males, and explicitly state that they are not transgender persons.  Their cross dressing is gender performance, although not like the more theatrical drag performance.

Edit:  this is to say, that while the transgender umbrella may include some cross-dressers, not all cross-dressers are transgender people.  There is overlap between these population sets, rather than complete inclusion.  This applies to many of the groups listed in that rather terse definition.  Over-generalizing can be damaging to others in a delicate subject such as this.

I would never dare to assign the gender identity of another person.  I had to live with the horrific result of others insisting that they knew my gender identity better than I did for a long time.

Please, I beg you, do not assign a gender identity to others.  Allow them to hold their own gender identity, and please, please, do try to respect their gender identity.

[Maid Marion]

There is no TG/CD binary, just as there is no male/female binary.

To complicate matters, many of us have other issues, such as autism, social anxiety, toxic families, traumatic experiences, and so on...

I'm a very rare AMAB that often genders as female on the phone, or when people see how I move. I don't have any body dysphoria issues, but this may be due to the unusually feminine body I have.   There is also fact that maintaining my house and gardens would be much harder in a weaker body.  I don't expect to find someone similar to my situation.

[Devlyn]

I would like to mention that I do know crossdressers who identify as cisgender males, and explicitly state that they are not transgender persons.  Their cross dressing is gender performance, although not like the more theatrical drag performance.

Edit:  this is to say, that while the transgender umbrella may include some cross-dressers, not all cross-dressers are transgender people.  There is overlap between these population sets, rather than complete inclusion.  This applies to many of the groups listed in that rather terse definition.  Over-generalizing can be damaging to others in a delicate subject such as this.

I would never dare to assign the gender identity of another person.  I had to live with the horrific result of others insisting that they knew my gender identity better than I did for a long time.

Please, I beg you, do not assign a gender identity to others.  Allow them to hold their own gender identity, and please, please, do try to respect their gender identity.

I was just pointing out to her that crossdressers aren't considered outside the umbrella here. So as not to run afoul of the site definitions and rules. I dare say it's better to assume that any crossdressers using this site do consider themselves trans, and the ones who consider themselves cis probably aren't that common here.

Hugs, Devlyn

[Rayna]

I am OK with my male body (well, not the hair or lack thereof), so crossdresser is accurate. However I'd rather consider myself as trans, because to me trans implies that there's not a lot of choice in the matter. And I do seem to be compelled to present as female, some of the time. The longer I go without, the stronger the compulsion becomes.

Do crossdressers have a choice? I really don't know.

Sent from my Victor 9000 using Tapatalk

[Michelle_P]

I am OK with my male body (well, not the hair or lack thereof), so crossdresser is accurate. However I'd rather consider myself as trans, because to me trans implies that there's not a lot of choice in the matter. And I do seem to be compelled to present as female, some of the time. The longer I go without, the stronger the compulsion becomes.

Do crossdressers have a choice? I really don't know.

Most of the crossdressers I know do identify as transgender, and the compulsion you mention is very common. (I certainly had this prior to my transition). Those of us who are faced with this compulsion are very likely to be transgender, and there is no real choice in this beyond accepting our transgender nature.

We may choose to deny our nature, at our own risk.  This doesn't seem to end well.

[MikeP]

I am OK with my male body (well, not the hair or lack thereof), so crossdresser is accurate. However I'd rather consider myself as trans, because to me trans implies that there's not a lot of choice in the matter. And I do seem to be compelled to present as female, some of the time. The longer I go without, the stronger the compulsion becomes.

Do crossdressers have a choice? I really don't know.

Sent from my Victor 9000 using Tapatalk

I agree with all you are saying and identify with COMPULSION.  This is why I am going to try HRT

[Denice]

Good question, and replies. See my signature.

[AnneK]

I don't know there is a difference between the two.  I was into cross dressing long before I ever considered myself trans.  For me, cross dressing was something that just felt right.

[Devlyn]

I've always loved this post. The first three sentences say it all. 

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,25482.0.html

[GordonG]

I've always loved this post. The first three sentences say it all. 

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,25482.0.html

Yes that is nice.  My sentiments exactly.

[Denice]

Yes that is nice.  My sentiments exactly.

Perfect!!!

[sally0196]

This thread shows exactly why labels can be problematic.  Each of us is different, so trying to pick a label that describes our uniqueness is difficult at best.  For me, and this is me only, I like to think of myself as a part-time woman.  Ultimately though, how we choose to describe ourselves shouldn't reflect on someone else.  What is most important is that we respect each other despite the fact that our label choice might be different from someone else.

Hugs,

Sally

[Michelle_P]

This thread shows exactly why labels can be problematic.  Each of us is different, so trying to pick a label that describes our uniqueness is difficult at best.  For me, and this is me only, I like to think of myself as a part-time woman.  Ultimately though, how we choose to describe ourselves shouldn't reflect on someone else.  What is most important is that we respect each other despite the fact that our label choice might be different from someone else.

Exactly!  We, each of us, are individuals, with our own core identity, our own feelings, our own experience.  We each have our own unique experience of life, and over time, have come to know ourselves. 

Some of us may seek aid in clarifying the meaning and impact of various elements of our lives, whether through therapy, guided meditation, support group discussions, or more spiritual means.  These are all aids in understanding ourselves.  These externalalities do not define us.  They do not hold our lives and experience, and cannot tell us who we are.

Each of us, within ourselves, holds the knowledge of who we are, what we need, how we are best recognized and acknowledged by others.  The process of self-discovery to reveal and clarify this knowledge to ourselves is one that many of us undertake. 

We have to take care in entering this process to be aware that others may seek to impose their will on us, attempting to assign to us who we are, what we need, and how we should be recognized.  This can be toxic, an attempt to poison our very identity, in a misguided effort to make others more comfortable by putting us in a box, what others wish was our place. 

When we are on our journey of self-discovery, allies who can help us, and shield us from others who would impose their own ideals or desires on us, are vital.  A good support group or friends may provide this.  We still have to exercise care lest someone that we see as an ally may, perhaps unwittingly, try to designate who we are, place us in some arbitrary box.

Some people are only comfortable with others once they have labeled them, tucked them into their place, and determined what others should be.  Be careful around these people.  When we are most fragile, such folks, even if identifying as friends or allies, can be very damaging.

We are, each of us individually, incredibly complex in our identity and needs.  Never let anyone else set your identity.  Find your own path on your journey of self-discovery.

[ChrissyRyan]

Yes, labels can be problematic.

I was thinking though, if you are AMAB, and you are a mtf woman, if you wear female clothes you are not crossdressing are you?  You are naturally wearing the clothes that are typically the clothes thought of by society as for your female gender.

Chrissy

[Michelle_P]

Yes, labels can be problematic.

I was thinking though, if you are AMAB, and you are a mtf woman, if you wear female clothes you are not crossdressing are you?  You are naturally wearing the clothes that are typically the clothes thought of by society as for your female gender.

Chrissy

Absolutely correct, @Chrissy !

I was assigned male at birth.  I dress in women's clothing, use women's makeup, have a woman's name and ID, because I am a woman, presenting as a woman, performing a woman's gender role.

My being a woman is not determined by genitalia present at birth, nor is is determined by the presence or absence of certain chromosomes.

My particular history leads me to conclude that I am a woman.

Each of us carries a complete genome to construct a male or female body.  In my particular case, an extremely powerful hormone disruptor administered starting about 9-10 weeks into my fetal development overrode the SRY gene, led to methylation of other genes, and caused stem cells differentiated past that point to grow and behave as if SRY and testosterone was not present.

As the specialized structures in the brain formed during the second and third trimester, they developed on a feminine path for the select regions that are sexually dimorphic.  That is, bits of my brain associated with controlling and responding to the endocrine system and driving my body grew to function in a high estradiol, low testosterone environment and drive a female body.  What happened to me later in life produced a massive mismatch, now largely corrected.  Some rather sophisitcated diagnostics showed the massive and debilitating neuroendocrine conflict and very high endocrine stress markers which resulted from that mismatch.

I'm definitely a woman.

[ChrissyRyan]

Absolutely correct, @Chrissy !

I was assigned male at birth.  I dress in women's clothing, use women's makeup, have a woman's name and ID, because I am a woman, presenting as a woman, performing a woman's gender role.

My being a woman is not determined by genitalia present at birth, nor is is determined by the presence or absence of certain chromosomes.

My particular history leads me to conclude that I am a woman.

Each of us carries a complete genome to construct a male or female body.  In my particular case, an extremely powerful hormone disruptor administered starting about 9-10 weeks into my fetal development overrode the SRY gene, led to methylation of other genes, and caused stem cells differentiated past that point to grow and behave as if SRY and testosterone was not present.

As the specialized structures in the brain formed during the second and third trimester, they developed on a feminine path for the select regions that are sexually dimorphic.  That is, bits of my brain associated with controlling and responding to the endocrine system and driving my body grew to function in a high estradiol, low testosterone environment and drive a female body.  What happened to me later in life produced a massive mismatch, now largely corrected.  Some rather sophisitcated diagnostics showed the massive and debilitating neuroendocrine conflict and very high endocrine stress markers which resulted from that mismatch.

I'm definitely a woman.

Michelle,

Good discussion.

You are very bright and I enjoy your thoughtful sharings.

Hugs,

Chrissy