For a mtf woman, when is transitioning “over”? Are we always transgender?

[JanePlain]

I think this question will really vary depending on you're asking, because people's motivations and life goals are all different even if the process is superficially the same.

I don't consider myself transgender. It's too broad of a term which encompasses lots of definitions, and makes it a bit blurry for me. For me the phenomenon is very specific and the term I would use is transsexual, because it describes my experience accurately. For various reasons which may be attributed to various dimensions, including, but not limited to: social, cultural, biological, etc, I leaned towards the feminine in almost everything, which made living as boy impossible without causing everyone a lot of confusion, perplexity from those around me. I also suffered from body dysphoria. I transitioned because I realized, over time, that given the cards I had been dealt with and body dysphoria I felt over the things that made me (yuck!!!) biologically male, I knew I would live much better as a girl, and later, woman.

Additionally, the fact that not all male secondary sex characteristics developed me for me (such as a low voice, beard, broad shoulders, muscles, etc) due to reasons I never cared to further investigate, that made it even harder for me to fit in the world and know where I belong to. But made it extremely easy for me to make the leap and live as a woman. It was extremely easy to integrate in groups as girl. Suddenly, everything was so smooth. I started voluteering in a orphanage, when I was 18. I showed up (was still not out to everyone), had been on HRT for two months and the first time I entered the orphanage, a girl was walking out of the truck, she worked there, and I asked her if I was at the right place and she referred to me as a girl, and I froze. Will always remember this moment. I wasn't wearing makeup, had short curly hair still and didn't even wear a bra, was with a sweatshirt. But she didn't even hesitate. I then presented myself to everyone as a girl and on that day I was sure I could live as a girl all the time. Before HRT, I already confused people.

What made it harder for me to transition was my parents, who insisited on not accepting and not coming around. They finally did and paid for my SRS on September 2017. I am forever thankful that they did accept. I think having a family who accepts and supports rather than tolerates or hates who you are makes a big difference on how well adjusted you become, after transition. Being passable can obviously be very important. I just wanted to go on with my life and now I rarely think of it.

Transsexual for me is only a medical term. I live as a woman and, therefore, being a woman is a part of my identity just like having dark hair or green eyes is. I don't think of it any other way. Transition is temporary, that's why it's called transition. For me, social transition was over when everyone in my circles either accepted me as girl or only knew me as such (and therefore it became impratical to tell). It's not a term I like to flaunt, and that is my right. Just like someone who has had some kind of cancer (excuse me the analogy) does not have to hold as a badge if they don't want to (but they certainly can if that's their wish). Medical transition was over when all my secondary and primary characteristics aligned with female.

Overall, I couldn't be happier with how my transition went, even if I had a very rough start because of lack of support which made everything 10 times harder, but I wouldn't have lived many adventures, if it had been another way, so there's a good side to everything.

sorry for the wall of text, TDLR: transsexual describes the medical experience better, so I opt for that term but do not use on a daily life basis, so much written to have it sumed up like that lol

This was a really beautiful post and if anything it was not long enough. 

[Zumbagirl]

For a mtf woman, when is transitioning "over"?  When we assimilate into society and live as a woman?

Even after transitioning is over, are we always transgender (mtf) women?  After all, after a caterpillar transforms into a butterfly, it is known simply as a butterfly.  We are not of the male gender, we are of the female gender.  Many of our bodies may, externally at least, correspond with our female gender.

Are we ever simply accepted as women, and not as transwomen, as if we were born female?

If yes, does that require passing so well that people not knowing of your past have never thought of you as a transwoman but just one of many women?  Or does acceptance by others simply require kind, tolerant, understanding people even if we do not pass well?  That they respect our wishes to be accepted as women because we are women, that they not deadname us, that they use our preferred pronouns, and that they treat us fairly and like ladies?

How much and what transitioning do we need to have completed until it is reasonable for each of us to be thought of by others as a woman?

What do you think?

Chrissy

It's over when you say it's over. What I consider over is maybe not what other people consider as being over or you would consider over. Why fret about it? One day you'll wake up and say to yourself, phew I'm glad that's over.

[Alice V]

Meaning is personal, each individual determines meaning in their own head, the meaning does not happen "out there" meaning is a mental function. 

Meaning of the words is something objective, not subjective. Word "transgender" have quite obvious definition. Everything else is just playing with words.

Everyone have different sets of main goals, and they can call transitioning over when they reach them all. There might be some tweaks but they aren't prioritized. And yeah, we're always transgenders. If it fits you better, transgender women This term might be important for medicine, because, well, we never born women and right now humanity don't have solution to make us girls fully from biological point of view instead of imitation of them.

[Dorit]

I was having dinner last night with a long time female friend.   She has been aware of all I have been going through in my transition.  She is not knowledgeable at all on trans issues and has mostly learned about it from me.   When I was describing myself as a transgender person in one conversation she felt the need to speak out.   "I don't think you are any longer transgender, you are now a woman!"

[sarah1972]

For me, I think I will always be transgender. There will always be items to remind me of who I used to be, starting with some simple medical things like having to schedule a prostate exam / PSA test. I am also contempt with my past. I would never delete or destroy any pictures from my previous life.

Transition I think will have an endpoint. Right now there are plateaus. HRT, tell my coworkers and go full time. Most recently GRS. The only thing left is changing all the legal name and gender.

I think on each plateau I can remain longer than on the previous one. Right now I am not planning any more surgeries. If this remains, then I would consider my transition complete after the official name change.

[Linde]

Considering my case, I don't even know if I ever have been transgender or not.  According to the laws in Germany, and intersex person cannot be transgender, because the intersex condition makes one already belonging to either gender.
i was made into a man after I was born, and now I am back pretty much to the condition with which I am born, mostly female with a little bit of male left.  I did not need HRT to grow boobs, or loose body hair,or keep my full head of hair.  All that was done by nature.
But I was a man, and I am now a woman, that would make me trans, at least what I think, and that will never be different.

[Julia1996]

Considering my case, I don't even know if I ever have been transgender or not.  According to the laws in Germany, and intersex person cannot be transgender, because the intersex condition makes one already belonging to either gender.
i was made into a man after I was born, and now I am back pretty much to the condition with which I am born, mostly female with a little bit of male left.  I did not need HRT to grow boobs, or loose body hair,or keep my full head of hair.  All that was done by nature.
But I was a man, and I am now a woman, that would make me trans, at least what I think, and that will never be different.

Here is my opinion. If they did medical intervention when you were a child to make you appear male and you do not need HRT for breasts,  and naturally have no facial or body hair then you are Female. I don't care what male characteristics may also have been present when you were born, I think you were meant to be female and something just went wrong in utero. Just like I feel I was supposed to be born normal but something went wrong and I was born albino. I often wonder how much prettier I would be with normal color skin, hair and eyes. Sigh.

[Linde]

Here is my opinion. If they did medical intervention when you were a child to make you appear male and you do not need HRT for breasts,  and naturally have no facial or body hair then you are Female. I don't care what male characteristics may also have been present when you were born, I think you were meant to be female and something just went wrong in utero. Just like I feel I was supposed to be born normal but something went wrong and I was born albino. I often wonder how much prettier I would be with normal color skin, hair and eyes. Sigh.

If the avatar is you or close to how you look, you are a darn pretty girl, albino or not!
The only male indicators I have/had, were my genitals and a very slight growth of facial hair.  I don't know about my voice, it is pretty high frequency when I talk, no matter whether it is male speech or female.
But I also have a prostate and one ovary.  I am just a mixed bag of chromosomes.  My mother had two pregnancies before me, and I feel as if I got the left over chromosomes from those.  I always was told that I look and behave identical to my oldest sister (she was murdered when still little).
In Germany, I could legally decide what gender I want tobe, no big deal, because I do not have a clearly defined gender.  I also could decide to be a third gender.  But in this country, one has to be either male or female.  I tried mail for a while, and failed.  That is the reason that I am now a woman (legally), but I still don't know if I am transgender or not?

[Alice V]

It called intersex for a reason. Apparently, she was meant to be not male nor female (or to be both of them, whatever).

[Julia1996]

If the avatar is you or close to how you look, you are a darn pretty girl, albino or not!
The only male indicators I have/had, were my genitals and a very slight growth of facial hair.  I don't know about my voice, it is pretty high frequency when I talk, no matter whether it is male speech or female.
But I also have a prostate and one ovary.  I am just a mixed bag of chromosomes.  My mother had two pregnancies before me, and I feel as if I got the left over chromosomes from those.  I always was told that I look and behave identical to my oldest sister (she was murdered when still little).
In Germany, I could legally decide what gender I want tobe, no big deal, because I do not have a clearly defined gender.  I also could decide to be a third gender.  But in this country, one has to be either male or female.  I tried mail for a while, and failed.  That is the reason that I am now a woman (legally), but I still don't know if I am transgender or not?

Thank you. Yes my avatar picture is me. The only difference is I was wearing my chocolate brown tinted contact lenses which I love but I no longer wear. Tristan really likes my natural eye color which is a pink/lavender color. He asked me to stop wearing any of my tinted contacts and just go with my natural eye color so I have. I like wearing tinted contacts but since Tristan was talking about maybe growing a beard and did not after I asked him to, I can stop wearing the tinted lenses for him. I don't know why he would want to cover his handsome face with an ugly beard anyway! . Well, it doesn't really matter what you are. I'm glad you're on Susan's and I enjoy your posts a lot. As for your avatar you look like an attractive mature lady. I would never guess you were anything else if I saw you in public.

[JanePlain]

I was having dinner last night with a long time female friend.   She has been aware of all I have been going through in my transition.  She is not knowledgeable at all on trans issues and has mostly learned about it from me.   When I was describing myself as a transgender person in one conversation she felt the need to speak out.   "I don't think you are any longer transgender, you are now a woman!"

I think your friend sounds great! I'm glad that there are people who don't reject the possibility of going from man to woman (Or the other way around)  What with people all being female until the 3rd month of pregnancy I don't see that this is really that difficult to accept.  Which of course will make some people insanely angry.  Anyway thanks for sharing that.  It gives hope to some of us listening too much to uptight transphobic types.

[JanePlain]

For me, I think I will always be transgender. There will always be items to remind me of who I used to be, starting with some simple medical things like having to schedule a prostate exam / PSA test. I am also contempt with my past. I would never delete or destroy any pictures from my previous life.

Transition I think will have an endpoint. Right now there are plateaus. HRT, tell my coworkers and go full time. Most recently GRS. The only thing left is changing all the legal name and gender.

I think on each plateau I can remain longer than on the previous one. Right now I am not planning any more surgeries. If this remains, then I would consider my transition complete after the official name change.

How would it be if you had your prostate removed?  Undergoing SRS, living your life on HRT for the rest of your life?  It just seems like there has to be some acceptable point where your not (As I've heard) a man who by saying he is female is deluded. Which steams me up even tho I've only done the HRT and Orchiectomy so far.

[Aurorasky]

This was a really beautiful post and if anything it was not long enough.

Aw, Thank you! 😊 I could detail more but I wouldn't know how without posting another wall of text! Was there anything in particular that you would like me to expand further?

[sarah1972]

Good point. For me it is mostly a social thing. I am a woman, I am accepted as a woman, I participate in typical women activities and I am a member of women only social groups (running group for moms).
It still does not change that I have a past. That I have to take hormones for the rest of my life. Well, many women do to. And my voice still needs a lot of work.

I do not advertise that I am transgender, I do not share this information with people I meet. But if they ask, I will not hide it either. A few in my running group figured out about me. It has not changed anything.

So... I am a woman with a past. And there will always be reminders. I am in my mid 40's and I have gotten to know many people over the years. They all know my past.

My transition will be over at some point. My past will never go away.

Hope this makes sense.

Hugs,

Sarah

How would it be if you had your prostate removed?  Undergoing SRS, living your life on HRT for the rest of your life?  It just seems like there has to be some acceptable point where your not (As I've heard) a man who by saying he is female is deluded. Which steams me up even tho I've only done the HRT and Orchiectomy so far.

[Faith]

My own definition of transgender (as I apply to myself) is that I always will be transgender. I was born physically male, I was socialized male. I am changing that to match my internal identification. What I change does not negate or remove where I came from. Thus, I will always consider myself transgender .. I transcended from what I was (well, eventually)

transition, as it relates to the OP, Will it end? IMO, yes. Transition as it relates to being transgender will end, for me, when I have reached a satisfactory point of change where I live my life as me, as myself, with no underlying depressions or dysphoria pushing me to change 'just one more thing'. Pushing myself to change that next thing that 'isn't quite right' to become the woman I was meant to be. I do differentiate between gender dysphoric changes to become myself and cosmetic changes of dislike. I really don't like my nose and I want it corrected .. it is not gender dysphoric, I just don't like it!!

Everyone transitions for their entire life, it doesn't end even when you're dead. Physically, as you return to the elements of which you are composed of. Spiritually, for those that believe, as you transition on to the next level of existence.

[Ⓥ]

Yes, you're always transgender.  This isn't really up for debate; this is reality and factual.  End of story.

[Linde]

Yes, you're always transgender.  This isn't really up for debate; this is reality and factual.  End of story.

Wow, easy with the horses young lady!

What about people like I? I was born both, and made into a male.  That was big transition for me, and caused me a lot of dysphoria, because I was not able to be like the other guys!  My body is genetically way more female than male, and later I transitioned back from male to female.  Am I double transgender now?  Or not transgender at all?

I don't like if others use absolutes to put labels on me and put me into a predetermined box!
The only fact that I cannot change is that I am intersex, because that is what the biology of my body is, but it is pretty much up to me to decide, whether I consider myself to be transgender or not!

[JanePlain]

Aw, Thank you! 😊 I could detail more but I wouldn't know how without posting another wall of text! Was there anything in particular that you would like me to expand further?

Put me down for a wall of text!  I'm curious how things are going now or really anything you think is interesting.

[Ⓥ]

Wow, easy with the horses young lady!

What about people like I? I was born both, and made into a male.  That was big transition for me, and caused me a lot of dysphoria, because I was not able to be like the other guys!  My body is genetically way more female than male, and later I transitioned back from male to female.  Am I double transgender now?  Or not transgender at all?

I don't like if others use absolutes to put labels on me and put me into a predetermined box!
The only fact that I cannot change is that I am intersex, because that is what the biology of my body is, but it is pretty much up to me to decide, whether I consider myself to be transgender or not!

Hi Dietlind!  Ich spreche sehr wenig und schlecht, aber Ich spreche :p

Thanks for your reply    You are (as you stated) intersex and not, as the thread title states MtF.  I was merely answering the thread title question, but more than happy to engage with you.

From what anecdotal evidence I have seen, intersexed individuals are very rare and unique.  As such, classification (if that word can suit you) is more personalized and individual instead of broadly labeled is it not?  But intersexed individuals still are under the same umbrella as we all are as transgender individuals, wouldn't you agree?

Cis-Male ( MtF / Intersex / FtM ) Cis-Female

Sorry if I come across as brash (that's just my posting style; always has been I'm afraid), but the question "Are we always transgender?" is just... I mean, think about it.  I simply don't understand why it's even a question heh.  I'm all ears and willing to have a discussion about it though

Aurora honey, I love you babe, but I disagree with ya wholeheartedly about this topic <3

[Winter02]

If you think about it, transitioning only actually occurs when you go under for surgery and during the recovery period...

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