Transition, and shifts in gender orientation

[GingerVicki]

"It has never felt quite right using my male parts with either a male OR female partner"

BINGO Wow that sure rings true.   Without this getting too TMI a "guy" who wears a strapon most of the time suddenly makes a lot more sense.

<blushs> So very true!

[JanePlain]

Either I got lucky in the spouse sweepstakes or my judgement 15 years ago was better than I thought.  She doesn't consider herself a lesbian though we are now a same-sex couple.  Rather, she considers herself "LBM": lesbian by marriage.    Our relationship has been asexual for quite a few years, since she hit menopause, so that was not a factor for either of us.  So it comes down to the fact that she wasn't weirded out by remaining married to me.  She knows I am still the person she married, though I am now me 2.0.

Yes, that is a thing.  It didn't happen to me as an adult, but it did when I was a teenager, long before I knew I was trans.  This guy's gaydar malfunctioned and he thought I was gay.  It was traumatic for me, and left me confused for a long time.

My E is in the normal range for a pre-menopausal woman, and my T is unmeasurable.  The lack of T certainly shut off what libido I had.  But it is not just current lack of libido that makes me conclude that I am mostly asexual.  There are signs going way back in my life.  I didn't date a lot, and I was a virgin until I was 30.  I was never the one to initiate sex.  So, in hindsight, I would say that I was always close to asexual.  Which makes my current situation acceptable.

I'm really glad to hear that your relationship didn't blow up!  Its good to have a place like this where you can find others who have been there and done that.  LBM!  Ok, thats pretty good.  I think technique wise my spouse has been LBM the day we got married.  She just didn't know it.

I'm really curious about the connection between hormones and mood (Like depression) and sex drive.  I have read a mountain of stuff.  After the Orchie I was trying for the longest time to testosterone myself out of my issues and part of that was taking a drug that inhibited estrogen.  I had to stop taking that (Health problem) and my estrogen levels went back up along with sex drive.  Thats when I jumped ship (so to speak) and went rogue with blackmarket estrogen (Which was dumb) and dialed down the testosterone.  I think that this also does something positive about depression.   Or it just might be that finally doing something about this whole mtf thing relieved some of the depression. 

Odd what you say about dating.  This mirrors me in a way.  I was just never that much of a initiator sexually.  I actually had a girl friend call me decades later (She sounded tipsy) asking me why about not having sex and if it would have been great.  I said it would have been great and got off the phone as fast as I could without being rude.    What can you do?  Anyway being more sexual seems to me to be better then the alternative.  Although if you had asked me before?  I would have had a different (pretty much asexual) opinion.

[pamelatransuk]

I guess it sounds odd to people who aren't feeling this way but how else would you describe being a lesbian before you knew you were a woman?  I think maybe the two just go together for some of us.  I think part of the difficulty is having to heap on one more thing that is going to add to the stigma that some people try to lay on us for existing.  The thing that is always a mystery is why people with no connection or experience are so sure they are right. 

I do hope that HRT doesn't shift my interest in women to men.  I obviously don't care for my own guy parts much less someone elses. 

Maybe this is just me but I've had a couple of odd experience with men coming out to me as gay and I've had to be "Ok, thats great and all but I'm sorry but I'm really not into men."   Maybe its the Radar picking up "different" and miss IDing? 

Feeling asexual can be (my opinion) the Hormone mix.  Dialing down estrogen to near zero blanked out my drive.  Having near zero testosterone had the same effect.  I think having none of either is a sure fire way to put out the fire.

Hello Jane

I agree wholeheartedly with these 4 paras.

Trans & Lesbian or Trans & Asexual with minor Lesbian tendencies go together for many of us.

Indeed why do the opposition really believe they are right? What has moved them to be so narrowminded? 

My dislike of my male parts and body hair extends to those of others also.

I was regularly mistaken as gay instead of trans for most of my life. I am now 63.

I think I am asexual (with minor lesbian tendencies) due to originally below average T aswell as due to being trans and hence in possession of "the wrong equipment".

Hugs

Pamela

[AnamethatstartswithE]

For me I went from being what I thought was a heterosexual male, to a bisexual trans woman. It was a weird journey, since I've been attracted to females since puberty, and I didn't really have any attraction towards males. One thing I did notice which I didn't understand until after accepting myself is that there have been a few of my guy friends where I felt differently about them than other friends.

I think a lot of it just comes down to self acceptance, and I'm more open now that I would be a woman in a relationship instead of a man. I do have one question for everyone, does it make me shallow that I identify as bi instead of pan because I like the flag better?

[HappyMoni]

I just saw a woman on TV. Her name is Gigi Stone Woods. I felt like she was just beautiful. Dark hair, brown eyes, very symmetrical, pretty face. I thought to myself, "Am I attracted to her (if age was not an issue.)? " I find myself having an attraction to her, but why? I didn't want to be with her. I love her look. I realized that my attraction was based on what I would like to look like. Maybe this shouldn't surprise me at this stage, but it really did. I wonder how much confusion this causes for trans people relating to orientation. The simple question is, "When you see someone you thing is beautiful, do you push the button to look like them, or to get friendly with them." I wonder how long this has gone on in my life.

[pamelamoore2706]

I just saw a woman on TV. Her name is Gigi Stone Woods. I felt like she was just beautiful. Dark hair, brown eyes, very symmetrical, pretty face. I thought to myself, "Am I attracted to her (if age was not an issue.)? " I find myself having an attraction to her, but why? I didn't want to be with her. I love her look. I realized that my attraction was based on what I would like to look like. Maybe this shouldn't surprise me at this stage, but it really did. I wonder how much confusion this causes for trans people relating to orientation. The simple question is, "When you see someone you thing is beautiful, do you push the button to look like them, or to get friendly with them." I wonder how long this has gone on in my life.
[/quote/

I've been looking at pretty ladies and admiring and wanting to look like them for many years- I don't want to date them, just look like them! [emoji16][emoji16]


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[GordonG]

I just saw a woman on TV. Her name is Gigi Stone Woods. I felt like she was just beautiful. Dark hair, brown eyes, very symmetrical, pretty face.

I've been looking at pretty ladies and admiring and wanting to look like them for many years- I don't want to date them, just look like them! [emoji16][emoji16]

I had to Google her. She is very beautiful.
http://gigistonewoods.com/

I know what you mean about looking like them. I do too.

[pamelamoore2706]

I had to Google her. She is very beautiful.
http://gigistonewoods.com/

I know what you mean about looking like them. I do too.

Quite right too! [emoji16][emoji16]


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[pamelatransuk]

The simple question is, "When you see someone you thing is beautiful, do you push the button to look like them, or to get friendly with them." I wonder how long this has gone on in my life.

Yes Moni I feel this form of attraction myself and have done for decades!

There are so many different forms of attraction - romantic/physical asexual attraction, romantic/physical sexual attraction, attraction for a friend and as you say attraction with a desire to look like the other!

Hugs

Pamela

[HappyMoni]

Yes Moni I feel this form of attraction myself and have done for decades!

There are so many different forms of attraction - romantic/physical asexual attraction, romantic/physical sexual attraction, attraction for a friend and as you say attraction with a desire to look like the other!

Hugs

Pamela

Well stated Pamela. With all of these types of emotion, I can see the potential for confusion. I am sitting here questioning my past and wondering how many crushes on women might have been a jealousy of their looks. (Of course love is more based on personality in my opinion.) I have tended to crush on girls who have the same eye color and hair color as me. Maybe that indicates wanting to look like them rather than be with them. Gosh, sexual attraction is confusing!
If I tend to find attraction to a guy, it usually centers less on looks and more on their kindness and gentleness. I picture this as being a stereotypical woman thing.

[Linde]

I don't know what makes me different than many of you, but I am now asexual for many years, in fact, since my wife left, i have not touched another human in any sexual oriented manner.  This was long before i even thought of HRT or being trans!
I am one of the asexual persons leaning heavily lesbian.  I am more or less (or my body that is) feminizing for at least 10 years now, but my sexual orientation has not changed a bit.  I now consider men even less attractive hat I did a few years ago.  I have hardly any male friends, because I do not seek their company (actually never really did).  At the moment I feel that I will stay asexual even after any SRS surgery, and I hope the HRT will not do anything to my sexual orientation!
Might be that being asexual for such a long time already, and any sex related thoughts are non issues for me, helps me to not have to think much about my sexual orientation, and I can concentrate on to become a woman without all that sexual ballast to be dragged around.

I just don't know!

[HappyMoni]

I don't know what makes me different than many of you, but I am now asexual for many years, in fact, since my wife left, i have not touched another human in any sexual oriented manner.  This was long before i even thought of HRT or being trans!
I am one of the asexual persons leaning heavily lesbian.  I am more or less (or my body that is) feminizing for at least 10 years now, but my sexual orientation has not changed a bit.  I now consider men even less attractive hat I did a few years ago.  I have hardly any male friends, because I do not seek their company (actually never really did).  At the moment I feel that I will stay asexual even after any SRS surgery, and I hope the HRT will not do anything to my sexual orientation!
Might be that being asexual for such a long time already, and any sex related thoughts are non issues for me, helps me to not have to think much about my sexual orientation, and I can concentrate on to become a woman without all that sexual ballast to be dragged around.

I just don't know!

Linde,
   Being asexual or not changing orientation is  certainly simpler. You are lucky I guess. Lack of desire is something that either bothers you or it doesn't. At this point in my life, it would not be what I want. It could easily happen if I wanted it. I no longer have a lot of T to create a lot of drive. I take T because I feel like I have unfinished business in my life. In a sense it is a echo version of finding my right gender. Now I have to figure out sexual me instead of gender me. And I thought I was done. lol

[pamelatransuk]

Hello again Linde

I think we are similar in that we have been asexual for many years (although I never married whereas you were married for a long time).

I have previously commented at replies 11,22 & 28 and I agree wholeheartedly with you that sex related thoughts are non issues for me also and I confirm that my asexuality has remained the same for the 10 months HRT as it was for the previous 32 years.

As asexuality (both non participation and non thinking) is quite obviously a form of sexuality which applies to you, I thought you may wish to see my thread from August on this subject below.

Please feel free to comment either on my thread from August or this thread or both.

Just to clarify, my view is that Gender Identity and Sexual Orientation are 2 separate unconnected subjects but I respect the view of the other members for whom they may be connected.

Hugs

Pamela


https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,240214.msg2166919.html#msg2166919

[Linde]

Hello again Linde

I think we are similar in that we have been asexual for many years (although I never married whereas you were married for a long time).

I have previously commented at replies 11,22 & 28 and I agree wholeheartedly with you that sex related thoughts are non issues for me also and I confirm that my asexuality has remained the same for the 10 months HRT as it was for the previous 32 years.

As asexuality (both non participation and non thinking) is quite obviously a form of sexuality which applies to you, I thought you may wish to see my thread from August on this subject below.

Please feel free to comment either on my thread from August or this thread or both.

Just to clarify, my view is that Gender Identity and Sexual Orientation are 2 separate unconnected subjects but I respect the view of the other members for whom they may be connected.

Hugs

Pamela


https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,240214.msg2166919.html#msg2166919

I wrote a small book over there!

[HappyMoni]

Hello again Linde

I think we are similar in that we have been asexual for many years (although I never married whereas you were married for a long time).

I have previously commented at replies 11,22 & 28 and I agree wholeheartedly with you that sex related thoughts are non issues for me also and I confirm that my asexuality has remained the same for the 10 months HRT as it was for the previous 32 years.

As asexuality (both non participation and non thinking) is quite obviously a form of sexuality which applies to you, I thought you may wish to see my thread from August on this subject below.

Please feel free to comment either on my thread from August or this thread or both.

Just to clarify, my view is that Gender Identity and Sexual Orientation are 2 separate unconnected subjects but I respect the view of the other members for whom they may be connected.

Hugs

Pamela


https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,240214.msg2166919.html#msg2166919

Pamela,
   I raise my glass in toast of mutual respect for people with different viewpoints and perspectives.
Monica

[Northern Star Girl]

Pamela,
   I raise my glass in toast of mutual respect for people with different viewpoints and perspectives.
Monica

Dear Moni:
EXACTLY the correct and proper attitude when having discussions and debates with others.   It is too bad that more conversations do not develop with those rules being followed...
.
Thank you @pamelatransuk and @HappyMoni  for posting your thoughts about this seemingly missing element in many conversations..

Hugs, and well wishes,
Danielle

[ChrissyRyan]

Pamela,
   I raise my glass in toast of mutual respect for people with different viewpoints and perspectives.
Monica

I will second that.  We had a great thread earlier this month in the Sexuality section titled something like, "Did mtf HRT change your sexual identity?"  Apparently some posters one day got into squabbles.   I signed in and saw that staff locked the thread for review and possible message deletion, but it appears that the thread was completely removed!  There must have been good reasons for that and I am not questioning that of course.  They do the moderating and controlling and we should applaud them for their work.  Some posts simply are not to be tolerated.

There is no need for disrespectful comments because of different perspectives.  They are not kind or good.  Listen, and learn.  Share, and learn.  Let the moderators do the moderating.

This thread however is similar in discussion though to the other thread, so the discussion continues.

Chrissy

[Devlyn]

Pamela,
   I raise my glass in toast of mutual respect for people with different viewpoints and perspectives.
Monica

I will second that.  We had a great thread earlier this month in the Sexuality section titled something like, "Did mtf HRT change your sexual identity?"  Apparently some posters one day got into squabbles.   I signed in and saw that staff locked the thread for review and possible message deletion, but it appears that the thread was completely removed!  There must have been good reasons for that and I am not questioning that of course.  They do the moderating and controlling and we should applaud them for their work.  Some posts simply are not to be tolerated.

There is no need for disrespectful comments because of different perspectives.  They are not kind or good.  Listen, and learn.  Share, and learn.  Let the moderators do the moderating.

This thread however is similar in discussion though to the other thread, so the discussion continues.

Chrissy

Indeed. Over the last couple of months we have seen misgendering, and people having their identities and use of pronouns questioned. While this is a place of learning, I feel that learning is best done by listening closely. We seldom learn anything while we are talking.

Hugs, Devlyn

[pamelatransuk]

Thank you Moni, Danielle, Chrissy and Devlyn for your kind words of support.

Thank you Linde. I have read with great interest your comments on the other thread (aswell as on this thread).

May I take this opportunity of wishing the 5 of you a very happy Christmas.

Pamela  xx

[Linde]

Thank you Moni, Danielle, Chrissy and Devlyn for your kind words of support.

Thank you Linde. I have read with great interest your comments on the other thread (aswell as on this thread).

May I take this opportunity of wishing the 5 of you a very happy Christmas.

Pamela  xx

Thank you, and I would want to join in, and wish everybody here a happy holiday season!