Sexual orientation?

[Kirsteneklund7]

I am not sure, I have to consider my age.  And as Dorit, who is just a few years younger, said, a vulva with minimum depth vagina is just fine in her opinion.

I  think I have to see how it goes, and what a potential surgeon would think would be best for me!

It is still extremely hard for me to imagine that I ever would want to climb into a bed with a guy!  I have to retune my brain to be able to do that!

I can understand the guy bit being not so attractive ! Funilly I like masculine women

A proper vagina could be fun with the right woman ( masculine or feminine ) dont you think?

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[Linde]

I can understand the guy bit being not so attractive ! Funilly I like masculine women

A proper vagina could be fun with the right woman ( masculine or feminine ) dont you think?

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I don't really know.  I have not had any sex for at least 15 years now, and am mostly asexual, and cannot get arroused anymore by any sexual thought.  My libido is at someplace in the subbasement.  The entire thought is still pretty foreign to me.  I don't know if my libido will come back after I had my orchi in a few days.
I thought I had it all figured out and pretty well under control, and now the entire rollercoaster of sexual emotions may start over again!  I don't know if I really like this!

[Kirsteneklund7]

I don't really know.  I have not had any sex for at least 15 years now, and am mostly asexual, and cannot get arroused anymore by any sxual thought.  My libido is at someplace in the subbasement.  The entire thought i still pretty foreign to me.  I don't know if my libido will come back after I had my orchi in a few days.
I thought I had it all figured out and pretty well under control, and now the entire rollercoaster of sexual emotions may start over again!  I don't know if I really like this!

Very true!I know what it is like to be free from compelling libido. I dont know if I would like it again.

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[skipulus]

Very true!I know what it is like to be free from compelling libido. I dont know if I would like it again.

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The only time I have been free of "compelling libido" is during clinical depression. I didn't enjoy it, in fact I complained to the psychiatrist but they don't listen to that with women. He was mostly amused and puzzled that a woman would complain about it and asked why it mattered. I've always had high libido even before T and now that things are growing it is even more fun than before.

[Linde]

The only time I have been free of "compelling libido" is during clinical depression. I didn't enjoy it, in fact I complained to the psychiatrist but they don't listen to that with women. He was mostly amused and puzzled that a woman would complain about it and asked why it mattered. I've always had high libido even before T and now that things are growing it is even more fun than before.

I think it is a matter of age, if high libido is fun or a burden.  I do not frequent locations anymore at which I could ind a partner to take care of my libido needs, and when done, just say "nice meeting you"!

The places i visit in these days ar restaurants, discussion groups, and other social or volunteer events. It is not that easy to find somebody there, with who you want to live you libido to the hilt!

This is the reason that i like my non existing libido pretty well these days!

[Kirsteneklund7]

The only time I have been free of "compelling libido" is during clinical depression. I didn't enjoy it, in fact I complained to the psychiatrist but they don't listen to that with women. He was mostly amused and puzzled that a woman would complain about it and asked why it mattered. I've always had high libido even before T and now that things are growing it is even more fun than before.

Does physical romance with your SO mitigate the anxiousness of high libido?
Lots of action normally helps?

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[Kirsteneklund7]

Sorry I might be missing the point - it works well for you!!

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[Ryuichi13]

The only time I have been free of "compelling libido" is during clinical depression. I didn't enjoy it, in fact I complained to the psychiatrist but they don't listen to that with women. He was mostly amused and puzzled that a woman would complain about it and asked why it mattered. I've always had high libido even before T and now that things are growing it is even more fun than before.

When I was pretending to be female, I had what might be considered a "high libido."  I don't understand why your therapist thought it "amusing and puzzling" that a pre-T AFAB would have a high libido.  Women are and do have sex simply because its fun/feels good/makes you closer to your partner/add your own reasons here.  Not every woman is "not interested in sex" for whatever reason.  For some reason, Society in general seems to think that "women don't like sex/don't want sex/whatever other reasons people come up with."  Some women simply like it.  Why do cis men feel that's so strange, I will never understand.   

I think it is a matter of age, if high libido is fun or a burden.  I do not frequent locations anymore at which I could ind a partner to take care of my libido needs, and when done, just say "nice meeting you"!

The places i visit in these days ar restaurants, discussion groups, and other social or volunteer events. It is not that easy to find somebody there, with who you want to live you libido to the hilt!

This is the reason that i like my non existing libido pretty well these days!

It might actually be a matter of age, but since going on T a bit over two years ago, my already high libido is only gotten higher!  Sure, I'm 57 in body, but my sex drive is definitely that of a teenage boy!  I don't see it going away anytime soon, and honestly, I hope it never really does!  I loved sex when I was pretending to be female, and I still love it, as does my non-transitioning AFAB partner.  Lucky for me, I found him online, I didn't even have to leave the house! 

Ryuichi

[skipulus]

When I was pretending to be female, I had what might be considered a "high libido."  I don't understand why your therapist thought it "amusing and puzzling" that a pre-T AFAB would have a high libido.  Women are and do have sex simply because its fun/feels good/makes you closer to your partner/add your own reasons here.  Not every woman is "not interested in sex" for whatever reason.  For some reason, Society in general seems to think that "women don't like sex/don't want sex/whatever other reasons people come up with."  Some women simply like it.  Why do cis men feel that's so strange, I will never understand.   

I agree absalutely, my mother still has high libido at 78! Many women though are not that interested to be fair, and rarely raise it with male psychiatrists.
A bit of a back story for that incident. It happened about 20 years ago, I was suicidal and under constant observartion in a closed mental ward. I had attempted suicide and they weren't taking any chances. The first Psychiatrist to evaluate me started her report with my description as a "young female with masculine movements/behaviour".
There was no Gender Dysphoria diagnostic label available in their books then. Instead I was diagnosed with a range of personality disorders. They called it then a  "confused gender identity".
It was considered a delusion and a symptom of psychosis and treated as such with medication and hospitalisation when they considered me at risk.

It might actually be a matter of age, but since going on T a bit over two years ago, my already high libido is only gotten higher!  Sure, I'm 57 in body, but my sex drive is definitely that of a teenage boy!  I don't see it going away anytime soon, and honestly, I hope it never really does!  I loved sex when I was pretending to be female, and I still love it, as does my non-transitioning AFAB partner.  Lucky for me, I found him online, I didn't even have to leave the house! 

Ryuichi

Yes receiving a steady controlled T dosage means we retain our libido and defy age in that respect

[Chloe]

. . . to climb into a bed with a guy!  I have to retune my brain to be able to do that!

Actually have found it to be quite the other way 'round Linde . . the guy is bedding you as "don't think so" becomes a "why not" and then an "ok, yes lets do this" finally kicks in! A totally different dynamic, or "re-tuning" is at play, when someone else is the aggressor and your body tells brain SHUTUP! Most women are just as sexual as men they're just not, by definition, as open and forward about it! lol I mean if ya listen to them every day "feminine dress choices" has absolutely NOTHING to do with it - a complete & total DENIAL at best!

Of course what he thinks/assumes is in yer pants is only one small part of "the total attraction package"!

        Are you planning an "orchi"? At our age don't think that's a good idea, "T sex levels" are already low to begin with and, gotta agree with Tonya, if the predisposition toward men is not there already then highly doubt SRS will change anything (and, perhaps what your shrink is hinting at, will only make your bed sex death worse?)

        For me, at our age, it becomes a huge Catch-22 of "probability": I'd rather fantasize 'bout the thought of being with a man *again* than actually sleeping (literally?) with another woman I may, or most likely will not, ever "identify" with at all? lol Sounds all very "narcissistic" to me . . . lol whatever happened to "opposites attract"?

On a "sex" level suppose one could say I sympathize more with guys which certainly is not something very prevalent these days! @NatalieRene am sinking fast help me out here plz!

[Linde]

.  Not every woman is "not interested in sex" for whatever reason.  For some reason, Society in general seems to think that "women don't like sex/don't want sex/whatever other reasons people come up with."  Some women simply like it.  Why do cis men feel that's so strange, I will never understand.   

You are right, my wife could have had sex 24/7, she was wearing me almost out!  And being intersex and with mostly female emotions for all my life, I knew a lot of other ways, besides penetration, to make her happy.  But even with that way, it was really hard to keep up with her sex drive!

It might actually be a matter of age, but since going on T a bit over two years ago, my already high libido is only gotten higher!  Sure, I'm 57 in body, but my sex drive is definitely that of a teenage boy!  I don't see it going away anytime soon, and honestly, I hope it never really does!  I loved sex when I was pretending to be female, and I still love it, as does my non-transitioning AFAB partner.  Lucky for me, I found him online, I didn't even have to leave the house! 

Ryuichi

You are lucky.  I am running through life for quite a few years now, with female amounts of testosterone, and male levels of estrogen, and neither of them is enough to get my libido out of the basement (I was never a sex crazy person, and again, I don't know if my biology did something to it?).  I am currently happy about this, because I do not have a partner, and have no idea how to find one (what was your trick finding a partner online?).
I have no clue what would happen to my libido, once my hormones are all up to snuff,. and let me act like a healthy female.
I am currently the type of female your docs up there considered to be normal!

[Linde]

         Actually have found it to be quite the other way 'round Linde . . the guy is bedding you as "don't think so" becomes a "why not" and then an "ok, yes lets do this" finally kicks in! A totally different dynamic, or "re-tuning" is at play, when someone else is the aggressor and your body tells brain SHUTUP! Most women are just as sexual as men they're just not, by definition, as open and forward about it! lol I mean if ya listen to them every day "feminine dress choices" has absolutely NOTHING to do with it - a complete & total DENIAL at best!

Of course what he thinks/assumes is in yer pants is only one small part of "the total attraction package"!

I wait to see the day!  First I would need to find a guy, who would want to do this, and secondly I need to like that guy enough to do it with (I always needed an emotional bond for any sexual activities).  At the moment I don't even know where to find such a guy!  Do you have a spare one laying around, who I could borrow for a while?

        Are you planning an "orchi"? At our age don't think that's a good idea, "T sex levels" are already low to begin with and, gotta agree with Tonya, if the predisposition toward men is not there already then highly doubt SRS will change anything (and, perhaps what your shrink is hinting at, will only make your bed sex death worse?)

        For me, at our age, it becomes a huge Catch-22 of "probability": I'd rather fantasize 'bout the thought of being with a man *again* than actually sleeping (literally?) with another woman I may, or most likely will not, ever "identify" with at all? lol Sounds all very "narcissistic" to me . . . lol whatever happened to "opposites attract"?

Not only planning, but will have one, and health insurance will pay for it, because my estes hurt a lot for almost a year now.  The doc feels they are so atrophied that the might have stopped producing testosterone about 5 years ago.  There is not much of testosterone found in my body (I am at about female levels of the stuff), and those testes are not even very decorative anymore!  My body did feminize itself over the last 15 or so years to that extend, that I would have a hard time to pass as a naked man anymore, and that includes my penis, but yet, I don't have female parts either.  I am as intersex as I always was, and wonder if I ever an be a singel gender person (or at least feel like one?)

From y emotions I have been a woman all my life, partly because of my biological make up, I guess?

On a "sex" level suppose one could say I sympathize more with guys which certainly is not something very prevalent these days! @NatalieRene am sinking fast help me out here plz!

I still think that I would always have a hard time to accept a man as a sex partner.  One of the reasons is definitely my absolutely 100% dislike for any kind of anal sex, which, at the current time of my bodis "setup", would be the only way, a man could penetrate me.  <Removed by moderator.> (my wife was the sam by the way, we tried it, and we both hated it).  <Removed by moderator.>   At the same time, I do know how to satisfy women, without penetration, because I have a lot of experience doing this!
As a conclusion, why would I want to be with a guy, if <removed by moderator> while I could have a lot of fun with women, <removed by moderator>, but have even more fun?

[Michelle_P]

...
As a conclusion, why would I want to be with a guy, if there is always the chance that I would end up in prison, because I had to kill him, while I could have a lot of fun with women, and not be in prison, but have even more fun?

Well, have you considered there could just be the possibility that you have a sexual orientation that does not include the cisgender male population? 

Consider also that altering one's gender presentation to match one's identity is not related in any way to one's sexual or gender orientation.

It turns out that when we shift our gender presentation and perhaps even our bodies to align with our gender identity, that this is completely independent of our sexual orientation.  That is, I as a MtF person post-transition find that I have no attraction, need, or obligation to behave as a heterosexual woman, and I am no more attracted to male physicality than I was prior to transition.

It's far too common for people to conflate gender identity and orientation.  They are actually independent.  Breaking the taboos around gender identity and presentation does make us more open to breaking related taboos, though.  Even the old Kinsey studies found that very few people were strictly heterosexual or gay, but that most folks were a blend.  They had their 80%/20% guideline, that much of the population was mostly heterosexual with a bit of gay in their orientation, and the cultural 'approved' sexual behaviors suppressed that extra bit.

As we break taboo and deal with transition, we may also be open to recognizing a broader range of orientation and behavior.  We may find that the broader range of orientation is acceptable to us, and we may find that some aspects are not acceptable.

There is no requirement that we shift our orientation to include factors that we are not comfortable with.  I have seen unfortunate arguments that imply transgender persons must accept orientation changes to be acceptable.  I have experienced this myself, and my failing to desire intercourse with cisgender males is seen by some to be a 'failing', to somehow indicate I am a lesser person in their eyes!  I find this to be very silly indeed!

Only I can assign my gender identity.  Only I determine my orientation.  This is true for each of us.  Those who seek to assign our gender identity or orientation are unlikely to have our best interests at heart.

[Andie1963]

Well, have you considered there could just be the possibility that you have a sexual orientation that does not include the cisgender male population? 

Consider also that altering one's gender presentation to match one's identity is not related in any way to one's sexual or gender orientation.

It turns out that when we shift our gender presentation and perhaps even our bodies to align with our gender identity, that this is completely independent of our sexual orientation.  That is, I as a MtF person post-transition find that I have no attraction, need, or obligation to behave as a heterosexual woman, and I am no more attracted to male physicality than I was prior to transition.

It's far too common for people to conflate gender identity and orientation.  They are actually independent.  Breaking the taboos around gender identity and presentation does make us more open to breaking related taboos, though.  Even the old Kinsey studies found that very few people were strictly heterosexual or gay, but that most folks were a blend.  They had their 80%/20% guideline, that much of the population was mostly heterosexual with a bit of gay in their orientation, and the cultural 'approved' sexual behaviors suppressed that extra bit.

As we break taboo and deal with transition, we may also be open to recognizing a broader range of orientation and behavior.  We may find that the broader range of orientation is acceptable to us, and we may find that some aspects are not acceptable.

There is no requirement that we shift our orientation to include factors that we are not comfortable with.  I have seen unfortunate arguments that imply transgender persons must accept orientation changes to be acceptable.  I have experienced this myself, and my failing to desire intercourse with cisgender males is seen by some to be a 'failing', to somehow indicate I am a lesser person in their eyes!  I find this to be very silly indeed!

Only I can assign my gender identity.  Only I determine my orientation.  This is true for each of us.  Those who seek to assign our gender identity or orientation are unlikely to have our best interests at heart.

Perfectly stated and I thank you.


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[Jin]

I go both ways. I have a slightly stronger interest in women, especially dominant women. And my male interests are for the girly males.

Go figure, ain't life weird?

[Linde]

I really did a lot of soul searching lately, and tried to find any romantic interest in men, but I can't!  I still like to talk to men about subjects we have common interest in (mainly technical stuff and politics), but I am not able to find the smallest flicker of sexual interest in them, it just is not there.  I know some really "hot" females, who I would not mind to share my bed with, if we ever would build up an emotional relation that would lead to this.  I don't get that feeling/desire with man. 
To tell the truth, from a logical point of few, I would not mind to be bi or what ever multisex oriented, because it would increase my possibility to find the right person dramatically, but it just does not work that way!

[SophiaBleu]

Lesbian in romantic situations. Asexual when it come to sex. Strangely, however, I've developed an interest in male on male porn. Strange.

[Linde]

Lesbian in romantic situations. Asexual when it come to sex. Strangely, however, I've developed an interest in male on male porn. Strange.

I am like you with the first part, but I rally dislike to see mle pron models, no matter whether it is male on male, male on female.  I am OK with pre op trans with females, but prefer female and female.  But my libido is so low, that porn is not of much interest to me.

[HappyMoni]

Well, have you considered there could just be the possibility that you have a sexual orientation that does not include the cisgender male population? 

Consider also that altering one's gender presentation to match one's identity is not related in any way to one's sexual or gender orientation.

It turns out that when we shift our gender presentation and perhaps even our bodies to align with our gender identity, that this is completely independent of our sexual orientation.  That is, I as a MtF person post-transition find that I have no attraction, need, or obligation to behave as a heterosexual woman, and I am no more attracted to male physicality than I was prior to transition.

It's far too common for people to conflate gender identity and orientation.  They are actually independent.  Breaking the taboos around gender identity and presentation does make us more open to breaking related taboos, though.  Even the old Kinsey studies found that very few people were strictly heterosexual or gay, but that most folks were a blend.  They had their 80%/20% guideline, that much of the population was mostly heterosexual with a bit of gay in their orientation, and the cultural 'approved' sexual behaviors suppressed that extra bit.

As we break taboo and deal with transition, we may also be open to recognizing a broader range of orientation and behavior.  We may find that the broader range of orientation is acceptable to us, and we may find that some aspects are not acceptable.

There is no requirement that we shift our orientation to include factors that we are not comfortable with.  I have seen unfortunate arguments that imply transgender persons must accept orientation changes to be acceptable.  I have experienced this myself, and my failing to desire intercourse with cisgender males is seen by some to be a 'failing', to somehow indicate I am a lesser person in their eyes!  I find this to be very silly indeed!

Only I can assign my gender identity.  Only I determine my orientation.  This is true for each of us.  Those who seek to assign our gender identity or orientation are unlikely to have our best interests at heart.

I am really saddened by this especially coming from someone I like and think highly of. I would never try to tell anyone who they should or should not desire. I would defend your right to be attracted to whomever you like. I feel bad that anyone made you or anyone else feel bad about their choice of partners. So, when I know that others and myself have seen orientation change through transition and I feel so totally dismissed and told my situation does not exist, it makes me feel very sad and hurt. I respect if people desire men or women. I wish that my situation would receive a bit of respect as well. I am listing your post although it is not my intention to single you out. Time after time it seems that orientation change is met with dismissal. It seems more important for people to state and restate and restate again, their experience instead of even trying to understand or support someone who is different. I have posted over 3000 times on here without a negative thumbs down. I have tried to offer support to others in any way I can on this site. You can consider this my first thumbs down if you like, but it is not an attack, it is not hostile. It is an expression of being hurt. It is an expression of not being listened to when I was having a hard time. I could have used a bit of support. So, if it is anyone's desire to bash me for this, I can't stop you. The saddest thing is some young person who experiences what I have, will find a community here that dismisses what they are experiencing and it might really hurt them. Maybe I just need to move on.
Moni

[Michelle_P]

I am really saddened by this especially coming from someone I like and think highly of. I would never try to tell anyone who they should or should not desire. I would defend your right to be attracted to whomever you like. I feel bad that anyone made you or anyone else feel bad about their choice of partners. So, when I know that others and myself have seen orientation change through transition and I feel so totally dismissed and told my situation does not exist, it makes me feel very sad and hurt. I respect if people desire men or women. I wish that my situation would receive a bit of respect as well. I am listing your post although it is not my intention to single you out. Time after time it seems that orientation change is met with dismissal. It seems more important for people to state and restate and restate again, their experience instead of even trying to understand or support someone who is different. I have posted over 3000 times on here without a negative thumbs down. I have tried to offer support to others in any way I can on this site. You can consider this my first thumbs down if you like, but it is not an attack, it is not hostile. It is an expression of being hurt. It is an expression of not being listened to when I was having a hard time. I could have used a bit of support. So, if it is anyone's desire to bash me for this, I can't stop you. The saddest thing is some young person who experiences what I have, will find a community here that dismisses what they are experiencing and it might really hurt them. Maybe I just need to move on.
Moni

@HappyMoni I think maybe I was not clear enough.  I was trying to communicate that we don't necessarily change our orientation when we come out.   In particular, we should not carry that cultural conflation of gender orientation and gender identity and force ourselves to an orientation we may not have.

I have acquaintances who transitioned, and were trying hard to force their orientation to change so that they could meet cultural stereotypes.  That's not being true to oneself.  They internalized the stereotypes and were trying to adhere to them rather than be true to themselves.

I transitioned MtF, yet my orientation is still towards women.  I had to be honest with myself and recognize that my orientation was not toward anatomical parts I couldn't see anyway, but towards elements of performative gender.  That led to further surprises. 

As a woman, I am not trying to 'change' to be attracted to men.  That simply is not in my nature.

My concern in writing this is that @Linde seemed to be troubled by not being attracted to men.  I am not entirely sure of all their details, but one thought I had was that perhaps they were trying to 'force' an orientation change, which isn't a great idea.

In general I do encourage people in transition to be aware of their feeling and attractions, and I suggest keeping this in a journal.  As we break down one cultural taboo in transitioning, other taboos may also fall, and we may discover a broader, different orientation than we had permitted ourselves before transition.