Sexual orientation?

[TonyaW]

In the past, I felt there were some who felt that my story was one of suppressing desire for men early on and that when I transitioned, I let my true sexual orientation come out. That left me feeling invalidated because that was not my experience.

I'm pretty sure we've responded to these sexuality threads and having differing experiences with attraction, I hope you never felt that from me.  I certainly didn't intend that if you did. While I believe that transition doesn't cause a change in orientation, it doesn't mean that if there is a change that it's from a previously suppressed attraction.

I don't believe there are any universal truths in regards to transition or attraction and orientation. When previously stating that my orientation has not changed, I sometimes felt a vibe from some others of "it will".

I was aware that some had changed orientation with transition so knew that was possible. My experience has been no change.  My electrologist mounted a TV on her ceiling for clients to watch and the other day she was drooling over a guy on the show I'm currently watching there (Schitt's Creek) and I'm just like "if you say so". I have no idea what makes a guy "hot".

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[Tessa James]

Can I throw a wrench into some theories?

I'm not sure my sexuality so much "changed" as it opened up the moment I began to explore transition.  The moment I realized I really was going to be going down this road of transition.  Before I'd even had my first gender therapy session and months before I even began HRT.

Assuming our brains are hardwired to our true gender from birth and some just may not recognize it for whatever reason until later in life, I'm guessing when I thought I was "honestly" asking myself constantly if I was "gay" as a boy and man and always coming up with "no" as an answer, I was not able to access some part of my psyche, whether it was social pressure or conditioning, I'm not sure.  I think that once I realized I would be living in the world as a woman my brain somehow allowed itself to open my thinking to my true nature in that, yes, I loved girls and then women, but guess what!  I also have this inner desire to be with a guy!  To love and be loved by a guy!  To...um...be intimate with a guy!

It gets weirder...I thought I would have had GRS long, long ago.  It didn't happen that way.  I've been stuck with this dangly bit for far too long and GRS seemed too far out of reach for me.  While I did end up marrying a man, I'm so uncomfortable with my bit, even post-orchie, that I have no desire to have it even seen, much less utilized, so we've had a sexless marriage.  It's caused major issues for both of us to the point that we're in a holding pattern until we just sign the paperwork to finalize our divorce.

I started thinking that I wanted to be with a woman again.  I want to experience physical and emotional intimacy with a woman for the first time in I-don't-know-how-long.

I was suddenly given huge good news a couple of months ago and was able to begin exploring the possibility of having GRS, finally!  But my searching and searching was not encouraging.  Prices have gone up considerably since I first looked into this 16 years ago so it began to feel just as out of reach as it had for the last decade or more.  A couple of days ago I found out that two local clinics took my insurance when previously they didn't!  Woah!  This might actually happen!  HF!

Now, with the very real possibility that I might finally have a place to put a guy's bits and get enjoyment out of it, I'm kinda changing my mind again!  To finally experience proper sex with a guy is starting to awaken my long-dormant libido.  There are stirrings down there, but they radiate to my entire being!

I'm even thinking that there might be a possibility my marriage might be saved, but realistically, I'm pretty sure it's too far gone to be resuscitated. 

So...where the hell am I going to find a guy that finds tomboys that like to use machinery and work in CG attractive?

I'm weird.

In some progressive places like Portland OR or Austin TX keeping it weird is an expectation and celebration

[HappyMoni]

I'm pretty sure we've responded to these sexuality threads and having differing experiences with attraction, I hope you never felt that from me.  I certainly didn't intend that if you did. While I believe that transition doesn't cause a change in orientation, it doesn't mean that if there is a change that it's from a previously suppressed attraction.

I don't believe there are any universal truths in regards to transition or attraction and orientation. When previously stating that my orientation has not changed, I sometimes felt a vibe from some others of "it will".

I was aware that some had changed orientation with transition so knew that was possible. My experience has been no change.  My electrologist mounted a TV on her ceiling for clients to watch and the other day she was drooling over a guy on the show I'm currently watching there (Schitt's Creek) and I'm just like "if you say so". I have no idea what makes a guy "hot".

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Awe Tonya, see the mess I stirred up on this thread, bad Moni! Haha, actually discussion is good. Hopefully it fosters understanding. No, I never got a bad feeling from you. You are confusing me a bit now though. You say you don't think transition causes orientation change, but if it happens, it is not necessarily because of suppression. Do I have that right? I honestly don't understand how this would all mesh together.
While  I am talking not understanding, I'll include why anyone tells you that it's inevitable that your orientation will change. That is unknowable to anyone but you. Also, I don't understand why Linde wants to be attracted to men. I hope it is not because of social pressure. I think you are great the way you are. I hope this doesn't cause you distress, because you do like women and there is nothing wrong with that. I don't like being attracted to men because of the potential harm that desire might have for loved ones. It doesn't fit my life. That's my distress!
   I think my process was described pretty well earlier. If I was bi, it was a surprise to me. Maybe in the sense of having two  seeds buried deep underground and one gets watered and grows while the other is nothing but a hidden potential. Maybe. I never had the hots for any guy in grammer school on up through college and onward.  I didn't get nervous around them or think them cute or want to be close to them. Nothing, nodda! My transition happened along with all it's changes. Now, the female body might cause me jealousy. I see a hot girl and check out her clothes or a body shape I might wish I had, but I would be lost as to going to bed with her.  Guys, much different story. No need for details. I don't see this as bi. I don't see it as suppression, then or now. It is maybe the other seed being watered now, I can't say. It is real, I'm pretty sure.

[Cayla]

Definitely ladies, even though I just started to transition I see myself as a gay woman.

Cayla x

[RobynD]

I've identified as bisexual since I was a teenager. Later I learned the term pansexual and that fit a bit better. I'm also polyamorous and have been that most of my adult life, so having that sort of fluidity may or may not have had an impact on my sexual preference.

My orientation is the same post hormones and transition. This is a fascinating subject to me and I'd love to see it studied in depth.

Within my orientation, there have been subtle changes. I'd say I became a bit more attracted to men but I still have a type of male that attracts me, they fit both a physical and personality type. Whereas, I remain attracted to a wider band of women. More men have approached me post coming out, so maybe that is a factor.

My libido took a nosedive the first year of transition but began has since returned in a better "softer" way. Since splitting with my long-term partner, I have dated something like five women and one male. Today I have both a female and male partner.

As I was starting from a more fluid state, it is difficult to say that hormones definitely affected my attractions but as I said there have been subtle changes.

[ChrissyRyan]

I am attracted to women only.

Chrissy

[Linde]

Also, I don't understand why Linde wants to be attracted to men. I hope it is not because of social pressure. I think you are great the way you are. I hope this doesn't cause you distress, because you do like women and there is nothing wrong with that. I don't like being attracted to men because of the potential harm that desire might have for loved ones. It doesn't fit my life. That's my distress!
 

It is kind of a stupid reason that i hope I would be attracted to men.  I hate to be alone, I am alone for a rather long time now, but that was because i was not ready to have somebody else after the love of my live left me.  Later i was so busy with becoming a woman, I did have no desire to get another factor into my life.  I feel that i have arrived pretty much at my "end station" for a while now, and now the loneliness is surfacing again.  I want to have a partner who i can share my life with!  It is a fact that only about .2% of the US women are lesbians, which means the pool of possible partners for me is pretty limited.  However, if I would find attractions with men, the partner pool would grow astronomically, and I would have a way better chance to not be alone anymore!
I just really hope that I have this hidden, unknown to me Bi tendency, and that it will come to surface once I had SRS?

I love women, but I hate to be "just" a lesbian!

[Linde]

I am attracted to women only.

Chrissy

You and I are in the same, very disliked by me, boat!  If you have a wive, hang on to her for your dear life, because finding another loving female is almost impossible once your reached a certain age!

[TonyaW]

Awe Tonya, see the mess I stirred up on this thread, bad Moni! Haha, actually discussion is good. Hopefully it fosters understanding. No, I never got a bad feeling from you. You are confusing me a bit now though. You say you don't think transition causes orientation change, but if it happens, it is not necessarily because of suppression. Do I have that right? I honestly don't understand how this would all mesh together.

I'll try to clean that up a bit.

Transition in and of itself does not cause a change in orientation or attraction or else it would happen to everyone. It didn't happen for me but did for you. Unless there is an acknowledged suppressed previous attraction (which you don't acknowledge so there is no reason anyone should believe otherwise) its impossible to say why it changes for some and not for others.

I do understand your distress about it,  as it has been my wife's biggest fear regarding my transition that I will become attracted to men.

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[Tribble]

   I think my process was described pretty well earlier. If I was bi, it was a surprise to me. Maybe in the sense of having two  seeds buried deep underground and one gets watered and grows while the other is nothing but a hidden potential.

I love this description!

Maybe. I never had the hots for any guy in grammer school on up through college and onward.  I didn't get nervous around them or think them cute or want to be close to them. Nothing, nodda!

It was the same for me, which is why I always came up with "no" when I asked myself if I was into guys.  No attraction, whatsoever.

My transition happened along with all it's changes. Now, the female body might cause me jealousy. I see a hot girl and check out her clothes or a body shape I might wish I had, but I would be lost as to going to bed with her.  Guys, much different story. No need for details.

YES!

Now, throw in being bi (more accurately, pan), I have a hard time distinguishing attraction and admiration.  I guess this is far more common among lesbians or lesbian attractions than I realized.  I thought I was just weird in that.

I don't see this as bi. I don't see it as suppression, then or now. It is maybe the other seed being watered now, I can't say. It is real, I'm pretty sure.

Suppression is probably the wrong word and I really do love the way you describe it.  It's not that we weren't suppressing it, even subconsciously, but more that the little seed didn't take yet.  It hadn't been nurtured, watered, as you put it.

Both plants are thriving in me now, so one didn't start growing and one didn't wilt away.

_____________

@Linde, if you think the lesbian pool is small, the pool of men that are willing to knowingly date trans women is even smaller from my experience.  I'm afraid I don't have any hard statistics on this.

While my husband says he only thinks about me as a man, some things have come out to make me think there's an asterisk behind that claim.  *I'm pretty sure he sees me as a woman with the added benefit of a dick and when he realized that dick was no longer functional as it previously had been, he started to lose interest in our relationship and he's only gotten more distant over the years.  I'm not at all saying that's his only reason for wanting to exit, but it sure plays into it, along with me effectively being asexual while I don't have the right parts.  No libido doesn't help.

[Linde]

Both plants are thriving in me now, so one didn't start growing and one didn't wilt away.

The only things I have growing are my love handles, my boobs (I just did the Rediit calculator and found out that I need C cups now, no wonder that I did not like my current bras), and my frustration that it seems to take for ever to get SRS!

@Linde, if you think the lesbian pool is small, the pool of men that are willing to knowingly date trans women is even smaller from my experience.  I'm afraid I don't have any hard statistics on this.

But if I am Bi, I could draw at least on both of those pools!

[CynthiaAnn]

For me, I've always been attracted to women, and one in particular.

C -

[HappyMoni]

I'll try to clean that up a bit.

Transition in and of itself does not cause a change in orientation or attraction or else it would happen to everyone. It didn't happen for me but did for you. Unless there is an acknowledged suppressed previous attraction (which you don't acknowledge so there is no reason anyone should believe otherwise) its impossible to say why it changes for some and not for others.

I do understand your distress about it,  as it has been my wife's biggest fear regarding my transition that I will become attracted to men.

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Okay Tonya, I see your logic I think. If transition was just wearing the opposite sex's clothes, using a different bathroom, and some of the more obvious transition related items, I might agree with you. Also your conclusion postulates that all transitions and people going through them are the same. My prediction on my transition, despite my early proclamations to friends that, "I'll  still be the same person!" was definitely far from the mark.  I have undergone tremendous change with my transition. Specifically, I had huge changes with my self image and how I relate to others.  I feel like this thing we go through is highly individual. What it has done to me, for me would affect someone with a different personality quite differently.  My gender change facilitated my orientation change. There is no other event that caused this. For someone else, it could be entirely different.

[TonyaW]

Okay Tonya, I see your logic I think. If transition was just wearing the opposite sex's clothes, using a different bathroom, and some of the more obvious transition related items, I might agree with you. Also your conclusion postulates that all transitions and people going through them are the same. My prediction on my transition, despite my early proclamations to friends that, "I'll  still be the same person!" was definitely far from the mark.  I have undergone tremendous change with my transition. Specifically, I had huge changes with my self image and how I relate to others.  I feel like this thing we go through is highly individual. What it has done to me, for me would affect someone with a different personality quite differently.  My gender change facilitated my orientation change. There is no other event that caused this. For someone else, it could be entirely different

Oh god, I hope I'm not saying all transitions are the same. As many different ones as there are trans people.

"My gender change facilitated my orientation change. There is no other event that caused this."

I know I'm probably not going to say this right either but I think maybe its that I'm thinking in general terms that transitioning doesn't cause those changes since not everyone gets them. You are right in that transition does change a person and that your transition is responsible for those changes in you.




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[HappyMoni]

Oh god, I hope I'm not saying all transitions are the same. As many different ones as there are trans people.

"My gender change facilitated my orientation change. There is no other event that caused this."

I know I'm probably not going to say this right either but I think maybe its that I'm thinking in general terms that transitioning doesn't cause those changes since not everyone gets them. You are right in that transition does change a person and that your transition is responsible for those changes in you.




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Tonya, how about this? Orientation change is not a usual outcome for someone who transitions but in some people the two things can be closely associated. Oh, oh, oh, my kingdom for a way to do a Venn diagram here, lol. You have a circle for gender transition and a circle for orientation change, bla, bla, bla. Gosh, 14 year old me  knew that that would come in handy one day. 

[TonyaW]

Tonya, how about this? Orientation change is not a usual outcome for someone who transitions but in some people the two things can be closely associated. Oh, oh, oh, my kingdom for a way to do a Venn diagram here, lol. You have a circle for gender transition and a circle for orientation change, bla, bla, bla. Gosh, 14 year old me  knew that that would come in handy one day.  [emoji14]

Entirely possible I'm the unusual one that doesn't have any changes, though quick unscientific survey of this thread would say    half or more noticed some change.

And here's a lovely venn diagram to muddy everything up.

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[HappyMoni]

Entirely possible I'm the unusual one that doesn't have any changes, though quick unscientific survey of this thread would say    half or more noticed some change.

And here's a lovely venn diagram to muddy everything up.

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I'm speechless! Now that's a Venn Diagram! It's as simple as a chart of the characters on Game of Thrones.Yikes!

Megan said something on another thread that made great sense to me. She said that, for her, gender is the basis on which sexuality is built. In my case, I think this was true. (For others, maybe not.) My basis before was 'male try to be.' My orientation was built on that. Now my basis is female, and for me, orientation has shifted to fit that foundation.

[TonyaW]

I'm speechless! Now that's a Venn Diagram! It's as simple as a chart of the characters on Game of Thrones.Yikes!

Megan said something on another thread that made great sense to me. She said that, for her, gender is the basis on which sexuality is built. In my case, I think this was true. (For others, maybe not.) My basis before was 'male try to be.' My orientation was built on that. Now my basis is female, and for me, orientation has shifted to fit that foundation.

You seemed to get a little excited talking of  venn diagrams so thought you might like that one.

I get that idea of gender based sexuality. Seems there a quite a few that went from straight "man" to straight woman.

Quotes around "man" because I don't believe I was a man before transitioning but a trans woman that didn't know it yet so presented male.

Guess that would mean I've been a lesbian my whole life.

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[Linde]

I don't understand why they have intersex at the bottom of the diagram?  Intersex has nothing to do with sexuality, because it is a biological condition!
I really don't like it that  the way my intersex body is "designed" should influence my sexual orientation!  I happened to be heterosexual, when i tried to be a man.  But I bet that there are others with a similar intersex condition who might be gay while trying to be a man.  I never had any clear gender identity, and that might be because i am intersex, but it sure has nothing to do with my sexual orientation.
I come across these kind of assumptions quite often, because "normal" people cannot even imagine how it is to live with a body who does not really know what it is.  I live with this body for many years now (I was not able to find a better one over the years , and I am still surprised to find out new things that are different or screwed up with me (biologically), and hardly any intersex person has identical conditions.
The one thing however, I know for sure is that my sexual orientation is a mental thing and has nothing to do with my more or less mixed gender body!

[TonyaW]

I don't understand why they have intersex at the bottom of the diagram?  Intersex has nothing to do with sexuality, because it is a biological condition!
I really don't like it that  the way my intersex body is "designed" should influence my sexual orientation!  I happened to be heterosexual, when i tried to be a man.  But I bet that there are others with a similar intersex condition who might be gay while trying to be a man.  I never had any clear gender identity, and that might be because i am intersex, but it sure has nothing to do with my sexual orientation.
I come across these kind of assumptions quite often, because "normal" people cannot even imagine how it is to live with a body who does not really know what it is.  I live with this body for many years now (I was not able to find a better one over the years , and I am still surprised to find out new things that are different or screwed up with me (biologically), and hardly any intersex person has identical conditions.
The one thing however, I know for sure is that my sexual orientation is a mental thing and has nothing to do with my more or less mixed gender body!

I am truly sorry if something I posted offended and I certainly did not mean for this diagram to be taken seriously. I only posted it due to Moni's excitement over venn diagrams.

Its got male and female on the ends and the arrows pointing out that they are not orientations and should also point to the intersex area. Maybe whoever made it thinks placing that note immediately under the intersex area was enough to indicate that, but it its unclear even if that's what was intended.
It's also not inclusive of non binary people. I'd assume that they just ignored  them and trans people rather than including them in male and female. At least they didn't separate us out.



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