Trans Jesus play sparks death threats in Brazil

[stephaniec]

Trans Jesus play sparks death threats in Brazil

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/12/13/trans-jesus-play-death-threats-brazil/

Pink News/Josh Jackman

13th December 2018, 3:16 PM

"The Gospel According to Jesus, Queen of Heaven, a play which stars a trans Jesus, has been targeted with "horrible death threats" while being performed in Brazil."

[SarahM777]

Should this come as any surprise to anyone if it's thought through what the possible consequences could be? Does it ever occur to anyone how this helps us or hurts us more in the long run knowing the wide varity of Christian views out there about us? Could this be seen as someone taking a stick,walking into the woods,finding a bear and poking the bear with said stick and expecting the bear not to do anything? Really?

Many Christians would view Jesus being trans as a form of blasphemy. Blasphemy also carried the death penalty. For some Christian zealots and fanatics that also want to try to bring the country under the Old Testaments laws,it gives them justification to defend the faith because they are doing "God's work" because they are removing those who are doing "Satan's work". That is the reality of the way things are at this time. And expecting different results was foolhardy at best.

Religious zealots and fanatic do not play by the same rules.

[Devlyn]

Should this come as any surprise to anyone if it's thought through what the possible consequences could be? Does it ever occur to anyone how this helps us or hurts us more in the long run knowing the wide varity of Christian views out there about us? Could this be seen as someone taking a stick,walking into the woods,finding a bear and poking the bear with said stick and expecting the bear not to do anything? Really?

Many Christians would view Jesus being trans as a form of blasphemy. Blasphemy also carried the death penalty. For some Christian zealots and fanatics that also want to try to bring the country under the Old Testaments laws,it gives them justification to defend the faith because they are doing "God's work" because they are removing those who are doing "Satan's work". That is the reality of the way things are at this time. And expecting different results was foolhardy at best.

Religious zealots and fanatic do not play by the same rules.

Gotta love "religious" people who threaten death when their values are bent. 

I, of course, use the word values in its loosest sense. 

[SarahM777]

The problem is they don't see it as their values are being bent. The biggest problem with the zealots and fanatics is often they see it as they are at war and they are on God's side and they can not possibly be wrong ever. Too often they use these things as justification for their hatred. Far too often they use fear and intimidation tactics to force people to their ways.

[AnneK]

And expecting different results was foolhardy at best.

It was only by challenging religious beliefs that we were able to move out of the dark ages.

[Lucca]

The problem is they don't see it as their values are being bent. The biggest problem with the zealots and fanatics is often they see it as they are at war and they are on God's side and they can not possibly be wrong ever. Too often they use these things as justification for their hatred. Far too often they use fear and intimidation tactics to force people to their ways.

In the article, it cites that despite the death threats, the play has inspired and encouraged many trans people in Brazil. That's a good thing. Cowering to violent zealots lets them win.

[SarahM777]

It was only by challenging religious beliefs that we were able to move out of the dark ages.

It's one thing to challenge religious beliefs, the problem is that they took the person who is viewed by most orthodox Christians as the GOD-MAN who is to be worshipped and adored, and changed Him into something else in which the vast majority of Christians would find offensive. The reality is that they will use this to "prove" their point about us being godless. And the reality is that those on the far Christian right are well funded and have made major inroads to the political system. We are a small minority in which we are out manned and out financed and we really don't have the clout in the political system that they do.  I believe that there are better methods to get our position across then by using the very founder of the religion in a way that many would find offensive. Remember that Christians make up 75% of the US population, is that really going to help us or hurt by offending that much of the population when it is NOT needed to be done?

[SarahM777]

In the article, it cites that despite the death threats, the play has inspired and encouraged many trans people in Brazil. That's a good thing. Cowering to violent zealots lets them win.

While that may be true that it has encourged many trans people on the other hand have the zealots been given MORE amunition to fight their "battle" with us because they see us as the enemy? Is it better to give them more ammunition or is it better to disarm their arguments? For some reason I see this as pouring gasoline on a fire instead of putting it out.

[Lucca]

Let's backtrack a bit; I don't know anything about the actual content of the play. Is its only purpose to be an offensive, in-your-face guesture? If so, you might have a point. Being offensive and provoking people for its own sake is rarely a good idea.

On the other hand, is there intelligent commentary in the play, with any offense being an unintended side-effect? If so, then there's nothing wrong with it. Jesus is a historical/mythic figure that doesn't belong to any one group. His person, image, and teachings are fair game for fiction writers. Refusing to give comment on him simply because some crazed terrorists will send death threats is wrong.

[SarahM777]

And to get the gist of the what would need to happen for much to change on the political front, we would need support from over 50% of the Christians in the US to get any where. It can not and will not happen without their support.

[Lucca]

Say what you want, I'm not letting other people's cartoonishly evil demands control my life.

[SarahM777]

Let's backtrack a bit; I don't know anything about the actual content of the play. Is its only purpose to be an offensive, in-your-face guesture? If so, you might have a point. Being offensive and provoking people for its own sake is rarely a good idea.

On the other hand, is there intelligent commentary in the play, with any offense being an unintended side-effect? If so, then there's nothing wrong with it. Jesus is a historical/mythic figure to that doesn't belong to any one group. His person, image, and teachings are fair game for fiction writers. Refusing to give comment on him simply because some crazed terrorists will send death threats is wrong.

There are matters of appearance. While their are those who do believe that Jesus was a historical figure, the vast majority of people in the US do not see it that way. Do you think it is a wise idea to offend the majority that without their support we can't get anywhere? Like it or not we would need the majority of Christians to support us to get any where in the political arena.

[AnneK]

over 50% of the Christians in the US to get any where. It can not and will not happen without their support.

That's a big part of the problem in the U.S..

[Lucca]

There are matters of appearance. While their are those who do believe that Jesus was a historical figure, the vast majority of people in the US do not see it that way. Do you think it is a wise idea to offend the majority that without their support we can't get anywhere? Like it or not we would need the majority of Christians to support us to get any where in the political arena.

They get offended by any attempt to push trans rights, we won't get anywhere by doing things on their terms. Jesus as a figure and as a message is something that the religious majority has forced down our throats, whether we like it or not. He's such a central figure to Western culture that it's fair game to use him for other purposes at this point. Trans-rights are not the only issues on the block, here; this is also about telling the world it's not ok to control others who don't share your religious proclivities. Atheists and religiously liberal Christians have an interest in this, too. I'm not giving up my interests as an atheist just because I'm trans.

Besides, most Christians are not so insane that a play like this is a major obstacle to their acceptance of trans rights. Most of those 75% aren't the ones sending death threats. There are plenty of Christians who support us or don't/wouldn't care about the play, simply giving a statistic about how many Christians there are in the county doesn't really tell us anything.

[Swedishgirl96]

But it must have been their intention to provoke. Trans Jesus in a gospel in Brazil? 

I don't know how strong christianity are in Brazil but it's crazy if you can't criticize it. Then there will be no freedom of speech. Is't Brazil going down a slippery slope when it comes to civil rights and politics? I hope things will not escalate to far.

[SarahM777]

They get offended by any attempt to push trans rights, we won't get anywhere by doing things on their terms. Jesus as a figure and as a message is something that the religious majority has forced down our throats, whether we like it or not. He's such a central figure to Western culture that it's fair game to use him for other purposes at this point. Trans-rights are not the only issues on the block, here; this is also about telling the world it's not ok to control others who don't share your religious proclivities. Atheists and religiously liberal Christians have an interest in this, too. I'm not giving up my interests as an atheist just because I'm trans.

Besides, most Christians are not so insane that a play like this is a major obstacle to their acceptance of trans rights. Most of those 75% aren't the ones sending death threats. There are plenty of Christians who support us or don't/wouldn't care about the play, simply giving a statistic about how many Christians there are in the county doesn't really tell us anything.

I do not disagree that it is your right to do so,but I do have a question for you.

Now since it is OK for you to offend them is it OK for them to offend you? If not why not and on what basis?


I never said that most Christians are sending the death threats. And I never said that there aren't Christians who do support us. All I am questioning is the wisdom of this and I just can't see it. I am not questioning her motives for doing so. I believe that is between her and God and I am not her judge.


All I am trying to point out that this type of thing may not be the best option to get our points across.

[SarahM777]

But it must have been their intention to provoke. Trans Jesus in a gospel in Brazil? 

I don't know how strong christianity are in Brazil but it's crazy if you can't criticize it. Then there will be no freedom of speech. Is't Brazil going down a slippery slope when it comes to civil rights and politics? I hope things will not escalate to far.

It's one thing to criticize Christianity as a whole but how many people would be willing to make a play of Muhammad being trans? And how well would that go over.

[AnneK]

Now since it is OK for you to offend them is it OK for them to offend you? If not why not and on what basis?

I find religion to be offensive, as it tries to pass off delusion as reality.  This is but one example of what that delusion can lead to.

[Lucca]

I do not disagree that it is your right to do so,but I do have a question for you.

Now since it is OK for you to offend them is it OK for them to offend you? If not why not and on what basis?

It's permissable, at least. They do things and create fictional works that offend me constantly. I may express my offense at appropriate times, but I don't expect them to quit doing stuff just because I'm offended. I definitely don't send death threats, and would not expect them to acquiesce to such a thing.

Expressing disagreement or offense is not the same thing as trying to squelch free speech using fear tactics and violence.

[SarahM777]

Expressing disagreement or offense is not the same thing as trying to squelch free speech using fear tactics and violence.

While your statement is very idealistic it does NOT deal with the reality of the fact that there are those who would do so for all kinds of reasons. It can only work in a perfect world and free speech does not mean freedom from the consequences.