Feminized body(without HRT) and confused about my Gender Identity

[jameswhiteshine]

Hi All,

         I hope everyone is doing just fine. A lot has been happening in my life right now and I feel like sharing it with you people here might help me. I will keep this as brief. I have always questioned my gender identity ever since the day I remember and I always pictured myself as a female until I hit my puberty when I started to feel ashamed of myself for feeling that way. I had a very late puberty for a male. Post-puberty, my voice became deeper as you would expect and my petite figure ended up becoming massive. I stand tall @ 189 cm and I also have very long legs. As bizarre as it might sound, I never knew how my male parts worked (could be because I was so uncomfortable with them to an extent I did not bother with them). I am in my early 20s and recently my breasts started to grow(without any HRT) and now it's almost a C cup. Due to my caved-in chest and wide root, it's not visible unless I wear tight shirts or take them off. Long story short, I started to look more feminine than masculine. Though it made me feel better, the way others saw me made me feel very comfortable. It went to an extent where people started to call my figure girly. To give you an idea, My measurements are 38-27-38 and I am not fat by any means. I wanted to know what could possibly be causing this, So I did my blood work and found out that my estrogen levels were in the range of young ciswomen. As weird as it was, my testosterone levels were in the normal range for men(earlier tests taken a year ago indicated low T). I consulted with a doctor and a semen analysis was ordered only to find out that it did not have any sperm. Karyotyping was also done to rule out any genetic abnormalities or intersex conditions like XXY or XX male syndrome. I am still waiting for the results but in the meantime, I am confused as hell. Could an intersex condition explain this? Is it just a bad case of aromatization of testosterone to estrogen? Regardless, why do I feel guilty for wanting to live my life as a woman? Also, why do I want to continue living as a man even though I know deep in my heart that I have never seen as a male? Am I too scared of embracing my identity? Probably, yes. Then, I ask myself "What is the point of living as an infertile and effeminate male with boobs when I could easily pass as a cis female (except for my deep voice)?". I wish I did not have any options. I know that being transgender is not a choice but at the same time, I just can't transition right now due to my status in my country of residence. It could potentially kick me out of the country. If my karyotype comes back as positive for XXY(Klinefelter's) or XX male, I might be put on HRT to keep my testosterone levels stable for a male. As of now, I have not disclosed my complicated gender identity to my doctor or my family, so they all assume that I am just a feminine looking guy. Not to mention that my current appearance has caused a significant amount of distress in my family. I just want to know what you would do if you were in my shoes. Would you consider my situation to be a blessing in disguise and come out to everyone without thinking about consequences(potentially getting kicked out of country of residence eventually)?

With Love,
Jimmy

[KathyLauren]

I am sorry that you are experiencing this stress.  As I read your post, the first thing I thought was Klinefelter's, so I am glad you are getting checked out for that.

If your country of residence is not safe for you, then you should seriously consider moving to somewhere more suitable.  Your safety comes first.  Once in a safe place, then you would have the option of transitioning.  Life is too short to go through it as someone else.

[jameswhiteshine]

I am sorry that you are experiencing this stress.  As I read your post, the first thing I thought was Klinefelter's, so I am glad you are getting checked out for that.

If your country of residence is not safe for you, then you should seriously consider moving to somewhere more suitable.  Your safety comes first.  Once in a safe place, then you would have the option of transitioning.  Life is too short to go through it as someone else.

I am sorry if I gave any wrong opinion about my country of residence. I live in Canada and it is way safer than my country of birth. People are killed for being transgender in my country of birth. So, In a way I feel really safe living in my country of birth. However, it's a tricky situation because I am on a temporary work permit and I heard that there is a recent trend of turning down permanent residence applications of those who are considered to be a potential burden on the universal health care system. I am an healthy adult except for my possible intersex condition and gender identity. It's irony because Canada is one of the very few progressive and LGBTQ+ positive countries in the world yet have a weird intake system which refuses permanent residence if the medical condition of the candidate calls for treatments costing more than 7000 CAD a year. I am sure HRT does not cost anywhere close to 7000 CAD but SRS does and they automatically assume that you will be getting SRS if you have not had it. So, It's a bit of headache.

[Linde]

Hi jameswhiteshine
I m a xxy (and seemingly  many other chromosome mutations) person.  When i was your age, nobody knew about all those intersex conditions.  I grew up and tried to live my life as a mal, bt I always fell a little short of the goal.  Everything went pretty Ok until  my feminine side could not be hidden any longer, which caused my marriage to collapsed.  I am now living as a woman,and transition for me was way easier than for many other trans women, because my body never developed any secondary male sex characteristics.
I am now living as the gender I eel I should have lived all my life, and I am pretty happy as a woman.

From my experience with a similar conditio you ha, I can only recommend that you follow your feelings and do what feels right.  you may want o consult with a therapist, specialized in transgender issues, to help you to sort out your feelings!

I wish you lots of luck for your path through life!

[jameswhiteshine]

Hi jameswhiteshine
I m a xxy (and seemingly  many other chromosome mutations) person.  When i was your age, nobody knew about all those intersex conditions.  I grew up and tried to live my life as a mal, bt I always fell a little short of the goal.  Everything went pretty Ok until  my feminine side could not be hidden any longer, which caused my marriage to collapsed.  I am now living as a woman,and transition for me was way easier than for many other trans women, because my body never developed any secondary male sex characteristics.
I am now living as the gender I eel I should have lived all my life, and I am pretty happy as a woman.

From my experience with a similar conditio you ha, I can only recommend that you follow your feelings and do what feels right.  you may want o consult with a therapist, specialized in transgender issues, to help you to sort out your feelings!

I wish you lots of luck for your path through life!

Good to hear from a person who had similar experience. To be honest, I was not aware of all these intersex conditions until recently. I thought intersex meant having ambiguous genitalia. I guess I was wrong after all. All I know right now is I am an infertile person assigned male at birth waiting for the karyotype results. I don't have many secondary male characteristics other than having a tall muscular body. Guess what, many women are tall and muscular too. I just wish I did not have a bad beard shadow. I think it's because of a combination of light skin and dark hair as my facial hair is very fine. I just need to find a good therapist.

[Linde]

Good to hear from a person who had similar experience. To be honest, I was not aware of all these intersex conditions until recently. I thought intersex meant having ambiguous genitalia. I guess I was wrong after all. All I know right now is I am an infertile person assigned male at birth waiting for the karyotype results. I don't have many secondary male characteristics other than having a tall muscular body. Guess what, many women are tall and muscular too. I just wish I did not have a bad beard shadow. I think it's because of a combination of light skin and dark hair as my facial hair is very fine. I just need to find a good therapist.

You may want to read through this website to learn what conditions are all considered to be inersex
http://www.isna.org/

With 6', I am also rather tall for my generation, but that is typical for people with XXY Syndrome.  The only male sex identifiers I have are my genitalia, and my facial hair (not very fast growing).  I do not have an Adams Apple, and have not a very deep voice.
You might have a different version of intersex than I have, and your test results should show some of them, because a Karyotype will not show all possible chromosome mutations.  Some of them will come as a surprise along the line, when you find out that you are different from your peers in some biological area.  I recently found out that I have the MYH16 mutation which was discovered in 2017.  This mutation prevented that I have any wisdom teeth (I like that).
Who knows how many other mutations I have, but I don't care.  My life is good, what else do I want?

[KathyLauren]

I am sorry if I gave any wrong opinion about my country of residence. I live in Canada and it is way safer than my country of birth. People are killed for being transgender in my country of birth. So, In a way I feel really safe living in my country of birth. However, it's a tricky situation because I am on a temporary work permit and I heard that there is a recent trend of turning down permanent residence applications of those who are considered to be a potential burden on the universal health care system. I am an healthy adult except for my possible intersex condition and gender identity. It's irony because Canada is one of the very few progressive and LGBTQ+ positive countries in the world yet have a weird intake system which refuses permanent residence if the medical condition of the candidate calls for treatments costing more than 7000 CAD a year. I am sure HRT does not cost anywhere close to 7000 CAD but SRS does and they automatically assume that you will be getting SRS if you have not had it. So, It's a bit of headache.

Ah, I understand.  Canada is indeed a good place for trans people, but I do understand the difficulties of applying for permanent residence status.  HRT would not be a factor in the assessment of your medical costs, since prescriptions are not covered in most parts of Canada.  SRS is covered everywhere, and the costs would be held as a factor against you in judging your residency application.  So I understand your predicament.

I wish you good luck in the decisions ahead of you.

[jameswhiteshine]

You may want to read through this website to learn what conditions are all considered to be inersex
http://www.isna.org/

With 6', I am also rather tall for my generation, but that is typical for people with XXY Syndrome.  The only male sex identifiers I have are my genitalia, and my facial hair (not very fast growing).  I do not have an Adams Apple, and have not a very deep voice.
You might have a different version of intersex than I have, and your test results should show some of them, because a Karyotype will not show all possible chromosome mutations.  Some of them will come as a surprise along the line, when you find out that you are different from your peers in some biological area.  I recently found out that I have the MYH16 mutation which was discovered in 2017.  This mutation prevented that I have any wisdom teeth (I like that).
Who knows how many other mutations I have, but I don't care.  My life is good, what else do I want?

Thank you for the info. I really appreciate it. On a side note, I am the tallest person in my family with most of my family members no taller than 165 cm. I never realized why I was so tall in the first place. This might sound very weird but my voice was always gendered as female until I hit late puberty and all of a sudden, it became very deep. Though it's very deep, I can pretty much get back to my pre-puberty voice with a bit of effort. As for facial hair growth, I don't think they grow very fast but it's still there. I read somewhere that once your testosterone levels hit high enough, it triggers the facial hair growth for the rest of the life. It's not uncommon for some intersex people to have testosterone levels in the range of male at some point of their life. I mean my T levels were really low until the last test and as far as I know, it's almost impossible to have high levels of testosterone and estrogen at the same time because they inhibit each other. Perhaps, I should have my blood work redone.

[jameswhiteshine]

Ah, I understand.  Canada is indeed a good place for trans people, but I do understand the difficulties of applying for permanent residence status.  HRT would not be a factor in the assessment of your medical costs, since prescriptions are not covered in most parts of Canada.  SRS is covered everywhere, and the costs would be held as a factor against you in judging your residency application.  So I understand your predicament.

I wish you good luck in the decisions ahead of you.

Thank you. Yes, it is indeed a great place for LGBTQ+ people. I just need to hold on a little longer to get my PR and I will be all set. I think it gets really tricky when you are supposed to declare your underlying medical conditions. I don't think they would assume all intersex people get SRS but I am sure as hell they assume MTF transsexuals get SRS. So, as long as I don't have my gender identity assessed until I get my PR, I should be just fine. I have lived like this for 20 odd years and I really don't mind living this way for 2 more years. Honestly, Dysphoria does feel overwhelming at times but you gotta think about your long time goals. I would rather live 2 more years as a miserable man here than living the rest of my life as a woman in my country of birth.

[SarahWithin]

Hi All,

         I hope everyone is doing just fine. A lot has been happening in my life right now and I feel like sharing it with you people here might help me. I will keep this as brief. I have always questioned my gender identity ever since the day I remember and I always pictured myself as a female until I hit my puberty when I started to feel ashamed of myself for feeling that way. I had a very late puberty for a male. Post-puberty, my voice became deeper as you would expect and my petite figure ended up becoming massive. I stand tall @ 189 cm and I also have very long legs. As bizarre as it might sound, I never knew how my male parts worked (could be because I was so uncomfortable with them to an extent I did not bother with them). I am in my early 20s and recently my breasts started to grow(without any HRT) and now it's almost a C cup. Due to my caved-in chest and wide root, it's not visible unless I wear tight shirts or take them off. Long story short, I started to look more feminine than masculine. Though it made me feel better, the way others saw me made me feel very comfortable. It went to an extent where people started to call my figure girly. To give you an idea, My measurements are 38-27-38 and I am not fat by any means. I wanted to know what could possibly be causing this, So I did my blood work and found out that my estrogen levels were in the range of young ciswomen. As weird as it was, my testosterone levels were in the normal range for men(earlier tests taken a year ago indicated low T). I consulted with a doctor and a semen analysis was ordered only to find out that it did not have any sperm. Karyotyping was also done to rule out any genetic abnormalities or intersex conditions like XXY or XX male syndrome. I am still waiting for the results but in the meantime, I am confused as hell. Could an intersex condition explain this? Is it just a bad case of aromatization of testosterone to estrogen? Regardless, why do I feel guilty for wanting to live my life as a woman? Also, why do I want to continue living as a man even though I know deep in my heart that I have never seen as a male? Am I too scared of embracing my identity? Probably, yes. Then, I ask myself "What is the point of living as an infertile and effeminate male with boobs when I could easily pass as a cis female (except for my deep voice)?". I wish I did not have any options. I know that being transgender is not a choice but at the same time, I just can't transition right now due to my status in my country of residence. It could potentially kick me out of the country. If my karyotype comes back as positive for XXY(Klinefelter's) or XX male, I might be put on HRT to keep my testosterone levels stable for a male. As of now, I have not disclosed my complicated gender identity to my doctor or my family, so they all assume that I am just a feminine looking guy. Not to mention that my current appearance has caused a significant amount of distress in my family. I just want to know what you would do if you were in my shoes. Would you consider my situation to be a blessing in disguise and come out to everyone without thinking about consequences(potentially getting kicked out of country of residence eventually)?

With Love,
Jimmy

I think that you have had plenty of signs to show you the way. You are obviously female. Many of us who are transitioning would give anything to have your measurements   Without endangering yourself, I'd say that you should slowly, gradually move into your true feminine self so that your family can grow into it with you. Your health depends on accepting and being happy with who you are. Embrace health and happiness, dear sister!


Hugs,
Sarah From Chitown
[emoji257]

[jameswhiteshine]

I think that you have had plenty of signs to show you the way. You are obviously female. Many of us who are transitioning would give anything to have your measurements   Without endangering yourself, I'd say that you should slowly, gradually move into your true feminine self so that your family can grow into it with you. Your health depends on accepting and being happy with who you are. Embrace health and happiness, dear sister!


Hugs,
Sarah From Chitown
[emoji257]

I am slowly learning to embrace myself. I am pretty sure a cis male would not be questioning his gender identity like I did and I still do. I am probably doing this to myself because of society and its stigma about trans people. About the measurements, I do feel it's a blessing in disguise but it doesn't really help when I am presenting as male. I tried growing my facial hair to avoid being asked silly questions by people but that made me to fail as male even more. If there's anything I wish to change, I would like a higher voice and maybe a narrower jaw. Of course, there are women with square jaws but it's a lot of work when it comes to styling your hair.

With Love,
Jimmy

[Maid Marion]

There are online resources for learning to talk in a more feminine manner.  I gender as female on the phone.

I am in a similar situation in that my body is also very feminine.  5' 3"   32-26-32.  Just an A cup, but that is like of most GGs my weight.  No adams apple. No HRT. Slightly long legs which is a little unusual for someone who is short.

I've been growing out my hair, it is now below my shoulders.  And wearing tighter clothes.  But no makeup or dresses. I now get fewer confused looks when I'm out and about doing my shopping and other errands. 

[jameswhiteshine]

There are online resources for learning to talk in a more feminine manner.  I gender as female on the phone.

I am in a similar situation in that my body is also very feminine.  5' 3"   32-26-32.  Just an A cup, but that is like of most GGs my weight.  No adams apple. No HRT. Slightly long legs which is a little unusual for someone who is short.

I've been growing out my hair, it is now below my shoulders.  And wearing tighter clothes.  But no makeup or dresses. I now get fewer confused looks when I'm out and about doing my shopping and other errands.

Interesting. Makes me realize I am not alone after all. I am about a foot taller than you, hence my measurements are little "thick". I didn't mention this earlier but I do not have an Adam's Apple either. My hair is around my shoulder and I would really like it longer. Funny thing is I would look like a tomboy if I just trim them. So, I hold on to them dearly. You look feminine in your DP. Are you intersex by any chance? Sorry if this question is little personal. Also, do you have any facial hair growth? Thank you.

With Love,
Jimmy

[Maid Marion]

I still get gendered as female even if I let my facial hair grow.  It could be because I'm so short.  Only 1% of men are this short. Fewer where I live right now. I've never been tested for Intersex.  My health is pretty good.  My doctor just tells me to avoid stress and not lose any more weight.

[jameswhiteshine]

I still get gendered as female even if I let my facial hair grow.  It could be because I'm so short.  Only 1% of men are this short. Fewer where I live right now. I've never been tested for Intersex.  My health is pretty good.  My doctor just tells me to avoid stress and not lose any more weight.

I wish I was shorter. Being tall has more negatives than perks. I am not only tall but my legs are disproportionately taller than my upper body, that makes it even harder. Imagine sitting in a coach class for hours, I bet you would not have any issues. Being tall just sucks. Does not really help when I get dresses online. Most of the dresses for my size are just too short for my body. Plus size dresses are pretty loose for most part. It's important to maintain a healthy weight as being underweight is dangerous than being overweight. Good luck!

With Love,
Jimmy

[Maid Marion]

I don't know whether it is the result of being a minority where I live or being short, but I also have most the the walk and mannerisms of a woman.  I've had professional help on my gait.  Which means it isn't normal. 

Sorry hear of the dysphoria. I do have an denial story.  I didn't realize I had public hair until it had grown in fully!  It is like my brain didn't register the changes for a long time.

Someone who is intersex should be able to easily "fly under the radar."  It is something that the medical community doesn't really acknowledge.  Nor does society.  So there is an inherent denial factor.

Good luck!

[Linde]

I don't know whether it is the result of being a minority where I live or being short,

This could be a reason, because Asian people seem to be generally shorter than Caucasian ones.  I remember my times in Japan, where I felt like a towering giant (6') standing out in any crowd!

Someone who is intersex should be able to easily "fly under the radar."  It is something that the medical community doesn't really acknowledge.  Nor does society.  So there is an inherent denial factor.

Good luck!

Don't forget that most physicians have no clue what to look for when they see intersex people.  It became really "mainstream " in the late 90's, well after most docs had finished med school!
i am one of those medical persons, who did not even realize that i was intersex, because I did not know anything about it.  The only thing I knew was that I was different, but had not much of an explanation or it!

I don't think it is a denial factor, but rather an education factor.  The majority of society has never heard about something like intersex, and can't even imagine to have a multiple number of sexes being housed in one singel human body (it is actually even hard for us intersex people to get our arms around this).  I think that is one of the reasons why I never developed any real gender identity.  What gender are you, being raised as a male while mostly having a female body?  How on earth can a young person develop any identity of what they are, if they try to be a male, but never can keep up with their male peers, and feel way more comfortable with females, who, however, reject them because they are supposed to be male!
I lived in a constant emotional mess, because I did not know who I was!  At that time, nobody else knew that either!
And under the radar I was, trying to live as a man, until that exercise failed badly!
Now I try to live as a woman, and hope I can succeed with this gender!  But I still don't have a real gender identity, which allows me to present as male as easy, as it is to present as female.  I like the female roll better, and have this as my default gender roll.

[Astxl]

Hi jameswhiteshine
I m a xxy (and seemingly  many other chromosome mutations) person.  When i was your age, nobody knew about all those intersex conditions.  I grew up and tried to live my life as a mal, bt I always fell a little short of the goal.  Everything went pretty Ok until  my feminine side could not be hidden any longer, which caused my marriage to collapsed.  I am now living as a woman,and transition for me was way easier than for many other trans women, because my body never developed any secondary male sex characteristics.
I am now living as the gender I eel I should have lived all my life, and I am pretty happy as a woman.

From my experience with a similar conditio you ha, I can only recommend that you follow your feelings and do what feels right.  you may want o consult with a therapist, specialized in transgender issues, to help you to sort out your feelings!

I wish you lots of luck for your path through life!

When you say you never had any masculine characteristics, do you also mean that you never had a beard? because I've seen videos of people with klinefelter and they shave their face lol.

And I saw a picture of you in your man mode, and you looked like a normal old man to me.

And if you show us a picture of you with normal camera in ur girl mode?

I don't try to be aggressive, thanks <3

[jameswhiteshine]

This could be a reason, because Asian people seem to be generally shorter than Caucasian ones.  I remember my times in Japan, where I felt like a towering giant (6') standing out in any crowd!Don't forget that most physicians have no clue what to look for when they see intersex people.  It became really "mainstream " in the late 90's, well after most docs had finished med school!
i am one of those medical persons, who did not even realize that i was intersex, because I did not know anything about it.  The only thing I knew was that I was different, but had not much of an explanation or it!

I don't think it is a denial factor, but rather an education factor.  The majority of society has never heard about something like intersex, and can't even imagine to have a multiple number of sexes being housed in one singel human body (it is actually even hard for us intersex people to get our arms around this).  I think that is one of the reasons why I never developed any real gender identity.  What gender are you, being raised as a male while mostly having a female body?  How on earth can a young person develop any identity of what they are, if they try to be a male, but never can keep up with their male peers, and feel way more comfortable with females, who, however, reject them because they are supposed to be male!
I lived in a constant emotional mess, because I did not know who I was!  At that time, nobody else knew that either!
And under the radar I was, trying to live as a man, until that exercise failed badly!
Now I try to live as a woman, and hope I can succeed with this gender!  But I still don't have a real gender identity, which allows me to present as male as easy, as it is to present as female.  I like the female roll better, and have this as my default gender roll.

I don't ever recall having the so-called male identity. Of course, I pretended to be a male. I even tried to be alpha male but the truth is it never worked. Talking about identity is complicated. Most Trans folks say they feel like opposite sex which I get it being a trans person myself but how do you know what a biological woman feels like and the vice versa? Most cis people think that trans people want to change their sex but in reality, it has to do more with making your body align with your identity. Your identity is in your head and there's no way to chop your head and fix it to a female  or male body. So, the only real way to make peace with yourself is to alter your body to fit your identity. I am yet to hear about a treatment which alters gender identity. This could be because of biological reasons. Many trans people detransition or commit suicide because they feel like they could never look the way they always felt. I believe a progressive and more-accepting society will go a long way toward eradicating high suicide rates in the trans community.

[jameswhiteshine]

When you say you never had any masculine characteristics, do you also mean that you never had a beard? because I've seen videos of people with klinefelter and they shave their face lol.

And I saw a picture of you in your man mode, and you looked like a normal old man to me.

And if you show us a picture of you with normal camera in ur girl mode?

I don't try to be aggressive, thanks <3

I know this question is not directed toward me but as far as I am aware, most people with klinefelter's syndrome have some amount of facial hair growth. Some of them do have body hair while some don't. So, it's really more of a spectrum. As of now, I am waiting for my karyotype results, so I can't tell yet If I have klinefelter's or not. Speaking about myself, my facial hair does grow from time to time. However, it's finer and impossible for me to grow a full beard.