Feminized body(without HRT) and confused about my Gender Identity

[Linde]

When you say you never had any masculine characteristics, do you also mean that you never had a beard? because I've seen videos of people with klinefelter and they shave their face lol.

And I saw a picture of you in your man mode, and you looked like a normal old man to me.

And if you show us a picture of you with normal camera in ur girl mode?

I don't try to be aggressive, thanks <3

Ii have a very slight beard growth, and need to shave max twice a week.  Most of the time once a week is enough.

In the picture in man mode, I wear zero makeup, I do use makeup in my female mode, and also have my hair done in a more feminin way (I wear a wig in my avatar).
I have another host of mutations besides Klinefelter that cause different stuff with my body!
The only mle identifiers I have are my genitalia and a little beard growth.

I don't know why you want to doubt what I write here, because i am who and what I am. And try to live as good of a life as I can.
Many intersex persons do not have a single kind of chromosome mutation only, and the different mutations we have, make us different from each other!
I am a medical professional, and you can believe that I looked as deep as possible into my symptoms and condition!

[Linde]

I know this question is not directed toward me but as far as I am aware, most people with klinefelter's syndrome have some amount of facial hair growth. Some of them do have body hair while some don't. So, it's really more of a spectrum. As of now, I am waiting for my karyotype results, so I can't tell yet If I have klinefelter's or not. Speaking about myself, my facial hair does grow from time to time. However, it's finer and impossible for me to grow a full beard.

You seem to be similar to me considering your beard growth!
You might have, like I do, several additional chromosome mutations, and even if you are Klinefelter, you are different than I am.  Klinefelter is only the general mutation, and as you say, it is a spectrum!  Once you accept that you are different, you can arrange you life to match those differences, and can live a pretty normal, good life.

[Astxl]

Ii have a very slight beard growth, and need to shave max twice a week.  Most of the time once a week is enough.

In the picture in man mode, I wear zero makeup, I do use makeup in my female mode, and also have my hair done in a more feminin way (I wear a wig in my avatar).
I have another host of mutations besides Klinefelter that cause different stuff with my body!
The only mle identifiers I have are my genitalia and a little beard growth.

I don't know why you want to doubt what I write here, because i am who and what I am. And try to live as good of a life as I can.
Many intersex persons do not have a single kind of chromosome mutation only, and the different mutations we have, make us different from each other!
I am a medical professional, and you can believe that I looked as deep as possible into my symptoms and condition!

I have never dismissed you for who you are, because only you know who you really are and you must embrace that.

Only I do not know much about the Klinefelter syndrome and I wanted to know a little more.

because it seems that phenotypically they look normal masculine, but it has nothing to do with gender identity, which is something we are born with, regardless of what genitals we are born with <3

Thank you :3

[jameswhiteshine]

You seem to be similar to me considering your beard growth!
You might have, like I do, several additional chromosome mutations, and even if you are Klinefelter, you are different than I am.  Klinefelter is only the general mutation, and as you say, it is a spectrum!  Once you accept that you are different, you can arrange you life to match those differences, and can live a pretty normal, good life.

I prepared myself for the karyotype results. I was quite scared at the beginning as I heard people were having issues with their vision due to their intersex condition. I can't deny what's there. It's odd that my breasts and hips are growing like I hit a second puberty. It does not really make any sense to me as my testosterone levels are in normal range for men of my age yet my estrogen levels are in the range of young women. I read somewhere that estrogen suppresses testosterone. It's like testosterone in my body is literally doing nothing at the moment which might be a good thing for dysphoria but at the same time, it makes me even more curious. I swear I never did any steroids which generally converts testosterone to estrogen and have similar effects in men. Another thing that pops up in my mind is Androgen Insensitivity. If that's the case, how come I have few male secondary sex characteristics. I can only hope that my karyotype result has the answers. For your information, My body fat percentage is slightly below 15% and there's no way in hell my minimal body fat is converting t to estrogen. My boobs don't look like man boobs that you typically see in overweight/obese men, they look different. Not to mention that I was lactating not so long ago. My blood work and other tests did not indicate any other medical condition which might have caused this. It's getting interesting everyday.

[jameswhiteshine]

I have never dismissed you for who you are, because only you know who you really are and you must embrace that.

Only I do not know much about the Klinefelter syndrome and I wanted to know a little more.

because it seems that phenotypically they look normal masculine, but it has nothing to do with gender identity, which is something we are born with, regardless of what genitals we are born with <3

Thank you :3

I can understand your curiosity. If I do happen to have klinefelter's syndrome. I am more than happy to answer whatever questions you have. Simply speaking, we don't know a lot of intersex conditions because most of them were discovered recently. Klinefelter's syndrome is not as rare as people think but somehow one can have varying degrees of symptoms. Have you ever heard about Chloe Prince who was born as Ted Prince? She was(still is?) married to a woman and they had children before she came out as transgender woman. To her surprise, she found that she had Klinefelter's after transitioning to a female. People affected with Klinefelter are typically infertile but this seems like an exception unless they had sperm donors. Some of my symptoms indicate that I could possibly have Klinefelter's but I just gotta wait for the Karyotype result.

[Linde]

. People affected with Klinefelter are typically infertile but this seems like an exception unless they had sperm donors. Some of my symptoms indicate that I could possibly have Klinefelter's but I just gotta wait for the Karyotype result.

And the key word here is typically!  I was able to father a child (during 36 years of unprotected life in my marriage), but that was it, and it was rather early in our marriage (I was way younger than)  Klinefelter Syndrom conditions are as varying as almost all intersex conditions.  Most of us have some other chromosome mutations along with it (I know of several which I have), which again makes me to be different from another person with Klinefelter, who may also have different other mutations.

I have some very typical Klinefelter indicators, I had a hard time to learn reading and do math (I was in 3rd grade when a tutor was able to finally teach me how to read).  I have pretty bad eyes, and I am diabetic . I am tall, but not very muscular.  All Klinefelter indicators, but I don't now if I would have had those problems without being Klinefelter, who knows!
I am now at a point, at which I use the benefits of my intersex condition.  I is way easier to be a woman, if you don't have to deal with body hair, or do not have an Adams Apple, or do not have any hair loss on your head, have a naturally rather high pitch voice etc.

[Michelle_P]

I do not know of any specific chromosomal anomalies, but I was exposed to high levels of diethylstilbesterol in utero, something like 500 times the concentration that would result from modern birth control pills.  This stuff inhibited testosterone receptors, blocking the normal masculinization pathways starting around week 10 of fetal development.

As a result, I was born with male genitalia and rib cage, laid down in the first few weeks of development, and a moderately feminine structure for my extremities.  The sexually dimorphic regions of the brain appear to be largely on the feminine side, which in research to date correlates well with being a MtF transgender person.

I had a fairly feminine appearance as a child, with anomalies such as undescended testicles.  This made some aspects of school fairly hellish.  It also allowed me to pass as a 15 year old hippie chick.

Puberty did not occur naturally, but was induced on recommendation of doctors and psychologists as part of treatment for a 'behavioral disorder', effectively being trans and wanting OUT!  Ah, Standards of Care, 1969 style!

I was able to father children, but had a sperm count of a bit less than half normal.  This wasn't surprising, as only one testicle ever descended after years of testosterone injections.  I never did get body hair, but the damn beard hair was annoying enough.

[jameswhiteshine]

I do not know of any specific chromosomal anomalies, but I was exposed to high levels of diethylstilbesterol in utero, something like 500 times the concentration that would result from modern birth control pills.  This stuff inhibited testosterone receptors, blocking the normal masculinization pathways starting around week 10 of fetal development.

As a result, I was born with male genitalia and rib cage, laid down in the first few weeks of development, and a moderately feminine structure for my extremities.  The sexually dimorphic regions of the brain appear to be largely on the feminine side, which in research to date correlates well with being a MtF transgender person.

I had a fairly feminine appearance as a child, with anomalies such as undescended testicles.  This made some aspects of school fairly hellish.  It also allowed me to pass as a 15 year old hippie chick.

Puberty did not occur naturally, but was induced on recommendation of doctors and psychologists as part of treatment for a 'behavioral disorder', effectively being trans and wanting OUT!  Ah, Standards of Care, 1969 style!

I was able to father children, but had a sperm count of a bit less than half normal.  This wasn't surprising, as only one testicle ever descended after years of testosterone injections.  I never did get body hair, but the damn beard hair was annoying enough.

This sounds interesting to me. I also forgot to mention that I too have only one testicle. I do have some body hair (not as much as cis males) but since I have light skin and dark hair, it looks hairier than it actually is. I don't know how to explain my facial appearance but I feel like it's a blend of masculine and feminine features as I have a prominent nose and square jaw but I also have almond shaped eyes, low feminine hairline (no signs of male pattern baldness), normal chin, and prominent lips. Funnily, I get gendered as female even in my boy mode when I upload it to how-old.net . Now, the last part is gonna sound very weird but I have already had my sex changed to male in my first passport. I was too young to remember it but my first passport still has 'F' under the sex marker. All my certificates after this change obviously mentions my sex as male. I am not too sure what happened when I was young but I have a penis and huge scar between my scrotum and anus. As far as I know, one of my testicles did not descend until I was like 3 or something and when it did, they removed it due to hemorrhagic necrosis (no visible signs of trauma). It does not make any sense to see the scar extending beyond the scrotum. I am not paranoid as my karyotyping will reveal if I have an intersex condition. If you don't mind, how were you able find all these things about you?

[Dena]

I am not too sure what happened when I was young but I have a penis and huge scar between my scrotum and anus.

It's normal for a male to have a ridge along that path. What would be abnormal is if you have the ridge and an additional scar along the same general path. We all start out female and that's a remnant of what could have been. 

[jameswhiteshine]

It's normal for a male to have a ridge along that path. What would be abnormal is if you have the ridge and an additional scar along the same general path. We all start out female and that's a remnant of what could have been. 

I was not referring to the ridge (Perineal raphe), it is a surgical scar. Looks similar to the scar that I got from orchidectomy. That's why I think it is abnormal.

[Michelle_P]

...If you don't mind, how were you able find all these things about you?

My mother was an RN, degree from the old College of Nursing of Providence Hospital in Oakland, California.  She had her degree before I was born.  When she first married, she had a series of miscarriages and her doctor prescribed diethylstilbesterol (DES) as part of treatment as soon as she became pregnant again.  A similar treatment was used after another series of miscarriages prior to the birth of one of my brothers, who had some of the classic DES exposure symptoms as well.

As in many families, the old pill bottles sat in the medicine cabinet for decades after being prescribed. I still remember the bottle, brown glass, "Prenatal Vitamins with Stilbesterol (TM)"

Mom was enrolled in a lifetime medical study, receiving a questionnaire every year with some routine stuff, and other questions that varied from year to year.  I think it was in 2005-2006 that the questions included one about DES use.  I was helping Mom fill out the questionnaire and she talked a bit about taking the drug and the reasons why. That prompted me to do a bit of digging into DES, and the family medical history.

https://diethylstilbestrol.co.uk/studies/des-and-gender-identity/

http://www.antijen.org/transadvocate/id33.html

[jameswhiteshine]

My mother was an RN, degree from the old College of Nursing of Providence Hospital in Oakland, California.  She had her degree before I was born.  When she first married, she had a series of miscarriages and her doctor prescribed diethylstilbesterol (DES) as part of treatment as soon as she became pregnant again.  A similar treatment was used after another series of miscarriages prior to the birth of one of my brothers, who had some of the classic DES exposure symptoms as well.

As in many families, the old pill bottles sat in the medicine cabinet for decades after being prescribed. I still remember the bottle, brown glass, "Prenatal Vitamins with Stilbesterol (TM)"

Mom was enrolled in a lifetime medical study, receiving a questionnaire every year with some routine stuff, and other questions that varied from year to year.  I think it was in 2005-2006 that the questions included one about DES use.  I was helping Mom fill out the questionnaire and she talked a bit about taking the drug and the reasons why. That prompted me to do a bit of digging into DES, and the family medical history.

https://diethylstilbestrol.co.uk/studies/des-and-gender-identity/

http://www.antijen.org/transadvocate/id33.html

I learnt from somewhere that the lack of an hormonal wash in the fetal stage is what causes people with biologically male bodies with a female identity. According to my interpretation, cisgender males have had this hormonal wash while transgender women did not have this in the fetal stage. It would be interesting if we could have tests to determine this. Since I knew the science behind this, I fought and still fight like hell to present as male but unfortunately there are cases where your will power can only do so much. Ultimately your brain and its identity are what matters the most!

[Michelle_P]

I learnt from somewhere that the lack of an hormonal wash in the fetal stage is what causes people with biologically male bodies with a female identity. According to my interpretation, cisgender males have had this hormonal wash while transgender women did not have this in the fetal stage. It would be interesting if we could have tests to determine this. Since I knew the science behind this, I fought and still fight like hell to present as male but unfortunately there are cases where your will power can only do so much. Ultimately your brain and its identity are what matters the most!

Essentially correct.  Most fetal structure tends toward the female sexually dimorphic form by default, and the presence of testosterone and the very active form dihydrotestosterone triggers masculinization effects in the formation of genetalia, the fetal skeleton, and other sexually dimorphic tissues such as those found in the brain, particularly in regions around the hypothalamus.

Dihydrotestosterone inhibits gonadal production of testosterone, and stimulates hepatic sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) production, which reduces circulating free testosterone and dihydrotestosterone.  In modern pharmacology a modest dosage is sufficient to halt testosterone production when used to treat prostate cancer patients, yet a dosage about 8-16 times higher was given to pregnant women from 1947 on as an off-label treatment to prevent miscarriages, shortly after a pregnancy was  identified in an at-risk mother, around week 10 of pregnancy.  The small DES molecule crosses the placental barrier easily. 

[jameswhiteshine]

Essentially correct.  Most fetal structure tends toward the female sexually dimorphic form by default, and the presence of testosterone and the very active form dihydrotestosterone triggers masculinization effects in the formation of genetalia, the fetal skeleton, and other sexually dimorphic tissues such as those found in the brain, particularly in regions around the hypothalamus.

Dihydrotestosterone inhibits gonadal production of testosterone, and stimulates hepatic sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) production, which reduces circulating free testosterone and dihydrotestosterone.  In modern pharmacology a modest dosage is sufficient to halt testosterone production when used to treat prostate cancer patients, yet a dosage about 8-16 times higher was given to pregnant women from 1947 on as an off-label treatment to prevent miscarriages, shortly after a pregnancy was  identified in an at-risk mother, around week 10 of pregnancy.  The small DES molecule crosses the placental barrier easily.

Thanks for all the info. Do you think these things could affect one's sexual orientation too? I thought I was an asexual until recently but I just found out that I am bisexual. I am not sure if I should call myself a pansexual because I have never been in a relationship with gender non binary or trans people, I wouldn't mind dating them.

[Michelle_P]

Thanks for all the info. Do you think these things could affect one's sexual orientation too? I thought I was an asexual until recently but I just found out that I am bisexual. I am not sure if I should call myself a pansexual because I have never been in a relationship with gender non binary or trans people, I wouldn't mind dating them.

There is some evidence pointing to a correlation between prenatal hormone exposure and development of sexual orientation.  As this sort of thing has been a cultural taboo, there is not a lot of research.  One nugget to start with:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780128002223000085

[HughE]

This sounds interesting to me. I also forgot to mention that I too have only one testicle. I do have some body hair (not as much as cis males) but since I have light skin and dark hair, it looks hairier than it actually is. I don't know how to explain my facial appearance but I feel like it's a blend of masculine and feminine features as I have a prominent nose and square jaw but I also have almond shaped eyes, low feminine hairline (no signs of male pattern baldness), normal chin, and prominent lips.

There's a number of physical characteristics which are collectively known as "eunuchoid habitus", which is a body structure that results from having below normal male levels of testosterone as you go through puberty, and is something that is normally associated with intersex conditions. XXY people often have this body structure, but other causes of (male assigned) intersex produce it too. Here's a list of the characteristics associated with this body structure:

* long, slender arms and legs
* a leg length that's significantly greater than the height of your upper body (the two should be about equal in men)
* an armspan 3cm or more greater than your height.
* sparse or very fine body hair
* a female "escutcheon" or pubic hair pattern (like an upside down triangle and confined to the pubic region)
* difficulty building upper body muscle
* feminine facial features and a generally feminine appearance (soft chubby features rather than hard muscular ones; gracile bone structure etc).
* gynecomastica
* other things such as female digit ratio (index finger equal to or longer than ring finger); female carrying angle; absence of acne as a teenager; long, luxuriant eyelashes and comparatively small, high arched feet (in my case anyway).

Basically you end up with a body structure that's more like the female members of your family than the male ones. It's more noticeable during your teens and 20s, after that, testosterone (even at below normal male levels) will have masculinised your body to the point where you don't look very different from ordinary men any more.

From what you say, it certainly sounds like you have this type of body structure, and almost certainly are intersex (especially having a female gender identity as well, which is a sign that your brain didn't masculinise as it was developing).

Possible explanations I can think of for the scarring would be hypospadias surgery; surgery to bring down undescended testicles; or hernia repair surgery due to being born with a hernia on one or both sides. Hypospadias, undescended testicles and childhood inguinal hernias are all things associated with abnormally low prenatal testosterone and incomplete male development.

As Michelle has mentioned, intersex isn't only caused by genetic conditions, it can also be the result of being exposed to external hormones (or hormone disrupting drugs or chemicals). This is because the sex you develop as isn't actually determined by X and Y chromosomes, it's determined by what hormones are present during the time your prenatal development was taking place. All being XX or XY does is determine whether you develop ovaries or testicles, everything from that point forward is hormones. More specifically, in the presence of high levels of testicular hormones (primarily testosterone and DHT), your development occurs as male, otherwise it occurs as female (female development is what happens by default if the male hormones aren't there, there doesn't actually need to be ovarian hormones present for female development to occur).

Not everything develops all at once, instead there's a certain time in prenatal development which is the critical period for each attribute that has sex differences. The critical period for determining whether you develop male or female genitals is weeks 7 through to 12 after conception, and if you have high levels of testicular hormones present during that time, you'll develop male genitals, if the hormones are absent, you'll develop female genitals, and if the hormone levels are intermediate/fluctuating between male-typical and female typical during that time, you'll end up with ambiguous genitalia.

Exactly the same thing applies to the brain, which is also a sexed organ. One important difference with the brain is that the critical period when sex differences are built into it is quite a bit later than for physical sex differences. Although there is a brain present from quite early in embryonic development, the early stages of brain development involve very rapid cell division (to produce the enormous numbers of cells needed to make up the human brain), and the migration of those cells from where they formed to where their final place in the brain will be (which is often far distant from where they formed). As a result, it's not until about 16 weeks after conception that the first cells have reached their final position in the brain, and start the process of building permanent connections to other cells, and creating the permanent structure of the brain (a process that continues for the remainder of the pregnancy). Presumably there's some subtle difference between male and female brains in how the cells are connected to each other, because it's the week 16 to birth period that seems to be when most of the differences between male and female brains arise (i.e hormones prior to week 16 appear to have a lot less influence on determining the sex of your brain).

So what appears to have happened to us MTFs (and AMAB nonbinary people) is that we had enough testicular hormones being churned out during the genital development stage to give us male genitals, however, there weren't enough testicular hormones being produced during the later stages of the pregnancy to give us male brains. Conversely, with FTMs (and AFAB nonbinaries), they had female typical hormone levels when their genitals were developing, but something caused them to overproduce androgenic hormones (or an exposure to external hormones with androgenic properties took place), during the critical week 16 to birth period for sex differences in the brain.

Unfortunately, doctors haven't properly appreciated the importance of hormones in determining sex, and for decades they've been giving pregnant women judged to be at risk of miscarrying or going into premature labour, high doses of artificial female hormones (estrogens and progestins). In adult men, these drugs all act as chemical castration agents (they suppress testicular hormone production, and in high enough doses, can shut it down altogether). Two progestins that were widely used in the 1950s and 60s (ethisterone and norethisterone), can additionally mimic the action of testosterone, and have been shown to be capable of driving male development in otherwise female babies.

The way these hormone treatments are typically prescribed results in little or no exposure during the week 7 to 12 period when the genitals are developing, but heavy exposure during most or all of the week 16 to birth period, when sex differences are being built into the brain. It's easy to see how people from pregnancies in which they were used can end up transgender. DES is a good example of the process in action, however I'm pretty sure the effect isn't limited to DES, and any exposure to external hormones during pregnancy risks having the same thing happen. If so, this is a huge problem, because they've already been used in literally millions of pregnancies! It would certainly explain why there's suddenly so many of us, when if you look at books and historical accounts from past centuries, transgender people are rarely mentioned, whereas gay people have always been quite common.

Funnily, I get gendered as female even in my boy mode when I upload it to how-old.net . Now, the last part is gonna sound very weird but I have already had my sex changed to male in my first passport. I was too young to remember it but my first passport still has 'F' under the sex marker. All my certificates after this change obviously mentions my sex as male. I am not too sure what happened when I was young but I have a penis and huge scar between my scrotum and anus. As far as I know, one of my testicles did not descend until I was like 3 or something and when it did, they removed it due to hemorrhagic necrosis (no visible signs of trauma). It does not make any sense to see the scar extending beyond the scrotum. I am not paranoid as my karyotyping will reveal if I have an intersex condition.

From what you've said, whether the karyotype comes back XXY or not, it certainly sounds like you're intersex, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. The only thing is that if it comes back XY, through treatment with fertility drugs it may be possible for you to produce viable sperm, which is something to think about if you might want your own biological children at some time in the future.

[Jin]

My suggestion is to embrace being YOU and not worry about labels. You are unique and very lucky. You have the ability to choose your gender appearance on whim. I often mix clothing styles. For instance, I may wear cute pumps with jeans, or hair decorations with Dockers. Or a traditional male dress shirt with a full skirt. Just depends upon my mood for the day.

[Linde]

Basically you end up with a body structure that's more like the female members of your family than the male ones. It's more noticeable during your teens and 20s, after that, testosterone (even at below normal male levels) will have masculinised your body to the point where you don't look very different from ordinary men any more.

Not necessarily.  I looked all my life different than ordinary men, but I have a host of other mutations in addition to XXY.  I never ever got body hair, my pubic hair was always (and still is growing in the femle pattern, I don't have an Adam's Apple, no receding hairline.  With other words, only my genitals and a somewhat light beard growth seperate my body appearance from that of a female.  My body decided to stop to produce testosterone in a male level several years ago .

So what appears to have happened to us MTFs (and AMAB nonbinary people) is that we had enough testicular hormones being churned out during the genital development stage to give us male genitals, however, there weren't enough testicular hormones being produced during the later stages of the pregnancy to give us male brains. Conversely, with FTMs (and AFAB nonbinaries), they had female typical hormone levels when their genitals were developing, but something caused them to overproduce androgenic hormones (or an exposure to external hormones with androgenic properties took place), during the critical week 16 to birth period for sex differences in the brain.

And somewhere along that line seems to be a middle ground, of whatever hormone influence.  I had never, and still don't have, a clear gender identity.  This allows me to be gender fluid.  I can present as amale in the morning, or as a female in the afternoon, without feeling any dysphoria.  I prefer to be a female, because I hope that I will be able to develop a female gender identity.  It is not a nice thing to not know who you are!  Every morning, when I wake up, I have to decide which gender I will be for the upcoming day.  Sounds great, almost like  superman, or?  Let me tell you, most of the time it is not fun!

[jameswhiteshine]

There's a number of physical characteristics which are collectively known as "eunuchoid habitus", which is a body structure that results from having below normal male levels of testosterone as you go through puberty, and is something that is normally associated with intersex conditions. XXY people often have this body structure, but other causes of (male assigned) intersex produce it too. Here's a list of the characteristics associated with this body structure:

* long, slender arms and legs
* a leg length that's significantly greater than the height of your upper body (the two should be about equal in men)
* an armspan 3cm or more greater than your height.
* sparse or very fine body hair
* a female "escutcheon" or pubic hair pattern (like an upside down triangle and confined to the pubic region)
* difficulty building upper body muscle
* feminine facial features and a generally feminine appearance (soft chubby features rather than hard muscular ones; gracile bone structure etc).
* gynecomastica
* other things such as female digit ratio (index finger equal to or longer than ring finger); female carrying angle; absence of acne as a teenager; long, luxuriant eyelashes and comparatively small, high arched feet (in my case anyway).

Oh, I must say that I am little stunned. It's like you know my entire anatomy. Only one thing that does not exactly match the description is I am quite muscular (more like muscular female than bulked up male) as I used to be an athlete. Honestly, I did not really have a lot of muscle before I hit the gym and put on some muscle. Oddly, I had a hard time gaining muscle weight. Now, it makes a lot of sense. Also, I never had acne as a teenage! My eyelashes are pretty long and it looks huge without any mascara, however, my feet is quite flat (I come from a family full of flat fleet). I never really had any idea about female pubic hair pattern (Still a virgin!) and it seems like I exactly have it. No significant hair from belly button. I have rounded hips even though I am pretty athletic. I have put on some weight recently(quite rapidly, thanks to extreme winter here!) and everything literally went to my thighs and below waist. As of now, my measurements are 41-29-41. I am starting to look more awkward in male attire. Thanks to the winter clothing and multiple layers, it does not look too obvious. Unless I hit the gym and lose like crazy 20-30 pounds, My body is gonna look quite feminine. My body fat percentage is around 18% which is not high at all yet it looks thick. My arm span is definitely longer than my height. As for my legs, they are 43" long(outseam). To give you an idea about my stature, I am about 74" tall. how-old.net almost always genders my face as female even without any makeup. About my digits, my index finger is slightly longer than my ring finger. Isn't it normal?

Basically you end up with a body structure that's more like the female members of your family than the male ones. It's more noticeable during your teens and 20s, after that, testosterone (even at below normal male levels) will have masculinised your body to the point where you don't look very different from ordinary men any more.

I am not too sure about this. Though my testosterone levels are in the normal range for men, it certainly does not have any effect on my body yet. I am not too sure about the typical body structure of female members of my family as everyone is either overweight or obese. Thus, it's not possible for me to know it. My higher estrogen levels shouldn't be causing this either, right? I heard that testosterone suppresses the effects of estrogen.

From what you say, it certainly sounds like you have this type of body structure, and almost certainly are intersex (especially having a female gender identity as well, which is a sign that your brain didn't masculinise as it was developing).

This is gonna sound weird but I hate wearing makeup and doing my hair. Gender identity wise, I feel like I am a tomboy who does not care about pronouns. I am an outdoor person as well. Growing up, I always played with girls until someone said it's not appropriate to mingle with them (thanks to the sexist culture in my country of birth). I have even had my dad ask if I was third sex when I literally had no idea about it. I obviously said no because I was just a kid. I definitely did not feel like males of my age!

Possible explanations I can think of for the scarring would be hypospadias surgery; surgery to bring down undescended testicles; or hernia repair surgery due to being born with a hernia on one or both sides. Hypospadias, undescended testicles and childhood inguinal hernias are all things associated with abnormally low prenatal testosterone and incomplete male development.

I vaguely remember this, I had this serious issue when I was really young. Whenever I peed, it did not come out of the tip of my penis and I had a surgery along with my hernia to have this fixed. This fits the description of the hypospadias surgery that you mentioned because I got circumcised with it as well.

As Michelle has mentioned, intersex isn't only caused by genetic conditions, it can also be the result of being exposed to external hormones (or hormone disrupting drugs or chemicals). This is because the sex you develop as isn't actually determined by X and Y chromosomes, it's determined by what hormones are present during the time your prenatal development was taking place. All being XX or XY does is determine whether you develop ovaries or testicles, everything from that point forward is hormones. More specifically, in the presence of high levels of testicular hormones (primarily testosterone and DHT), your development occurs as male, otherwise it occurs as female (female development is what happens by default if the male hormones aren't there, there doesn't actually need to be ovarian hormones present for female development to occur).

Not everything develops all at once, instead there's a certain time in prenatal development which is the critical period for each attribute that has sex differences. The critical period for determining whether you develop male or female genitals is weeks 7 through to 12 after conception, and if you have high levels of testicular hormones present during that time, you'll develop male genitals, if the hormones are absent, you'll develop female genitals, and if the hormone levels are intermediate/fluctuating between male-typical and female typical during that time, you'll end up with ambiguous genitalia.

Exactly the same thing applies to the brain, which is also a sexed organ. One important difference with the brain is that the critical period when sex differences are built into it is quite a bit later than for physical sex differences. Although there is a brain present from quite early in embryonic development, the early stages of brain development involve very rapid cell division (to produce the enormous numbers of cells needed to make up the human brain), and the migration of those cells from where they formed to where their final place in the brain will be (which is often far distant from where they formed). As a result, it's not until about 16 weeks after conception that the first cells have reached their final position in the brain, and start the process of building permanent connections to other cells, and creating the permanent structure of the brain (a process that continues for the remainder of the pregnancy). Presumably there's some subtle difference between male and female brains in how the cells are connected to each other, because it's the week 16 to birth period that seems to be when most of the differences between male and female brains arise (i.e hormones prior to week 16 appear to have a lot less influence on determining the sex of your brain).

So what appears to have happened to us MTFs (and AMAB nonbinary people) is that we had enough testicular hormones being churned out during the genital development stage to give us male genitals, however, there weren't enough testicular hormones being produced during the later stages of the pregnancy to give us male brains. Conversely, with FTMs (and AFAB nonbinaries), they had female typical hormone levels when their genitals were developing, but something caused them to overproduce androgenic hormones (or an exposure to external hormones with androgenic properties took place), during the critical week 16 to birth period for sex differences in the brain.

Unfortunately, doctors haven't properly appreciated the importance of hormones in determining sex, and for decades they've been giving pregnant women judged to be at risk of miscarrying or going into premature labour, high doses of artificial female hormones (estrogens and progestins). In adult men, these drugs all act as chemical castration agents (they suppress testicular hormone production, and in high enough doses, can shut it down altogether). Two progestins that were widely used in the 1950s and 60s (ethisterone and norethisterone), can additionally mimic the action of testosterone, and have been shown to be capable of driving male development in otherwise female babies.

The way these hormone treatments are typically prescribed results in little or no exposure during the week 7 to 12 period when the genitals are developing, but heavy exposure during most or all of the week 16 to birth period, when sex differences are being built into the brain. It's easy to see how people from pregnancies in which they were used can end up transgender. DES is a good example of the process in action, however I'm pretty sure the effect isn't limited to DES, and any exposure to external hormones during pregnancy risks having the same thing happen. If so, this is a huge problem, because they've already been used in literally millions of pregnancies! It would certainly explain why there's suddenly so many of us, when if you look at books and historical accounts from past centuries, transgender people are rarely mentioned, whereas gay people have always been quite common.

Thanks for taking your time to type all the information. It really educated me. I think I had an internal transphobia all these years and refused to believe in the reality. After all, who really wants to go through a gender transition in this world full of hatred?

From what you've said, whether the karyotype comes back XXY or not, it certainly sounds like you're intersex, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. The only thing is that if it comes back XY, through treatment with fertility drugs it may be possible for you to produce viable sperm, which is something to think about if you might want your own biological children at some time in the future.

I really wish the karyotype comes back with an explanation to all this. It will just make things little easier (like coming out). Even if it comes back as XY, I will still be glad as it would just mean I am a transgender woman and would have an option to freeze my sperm to have biological children in the future. I'm mostly attracted to women (I'm bi), so I wouldn't disregard the idea of biological children at some time in the future. Regardless of the results, I have to find a way to fit in to the society as male and definitely pass as male for one or two more years. Growing my facial hair out now and I know it's just a feeble attempt but if it means I won't be outed as a trans woman and get to live in my country of residence, it's a win-win. If anyone could give me tips to do this, it would be awesome. Trans women who have transitioned must have done this before they went full time. Right now, I look androgynous(if that's the right term) to an extent where most strangers are not even referring me by male pronouns (feels good inside but makes me feel scared at the same time). I think they get confused by seeing a bit of fine facial hair (after a week of not shaving) and very tall stature with male voice. People are too polite here and it's a good thing. I'm sorry if my words add insult to the injury for some trans women as this is exactly what they would want but my situation is just so unique. I just tuck my shoulder length hair under my beanie and wear glasses to draw attention away from my eyes. I also smile quite a lot to make my prominent lips look thinner. I also try to walk like an alpha male but at times, I forget and walk like I do normally. Any way, I am in the awkward phase even before I came out to anyone. Last but not least, my raw DNA data revealed no Y chromosome (a variation of the csv file data did but they were invalid according to several tools). I thought it must have been a mistake as some cis women reported Y chromosome in the same DNA tests and I am not able to track my paternal lineage due to this very thing.

[jameswhiteshine]

My suggestion is to embrace being YOU and not worry about labels. You are unique and very lucky. You have the ability to choose your gender appearance on whim. I often mix clothing styles. For instance, I may wear cute pumps with jeans, or hair decorations with Dockers. Or a traditional male dress shirt with a full skirt. Just depends upon my mood for the day.

kudos to you! I wish I could do this but I would just get outed as soon as I do this. People have asked me if I am gender non binary due to my appearance and I said no because I don't feel gender fluid at all. I respect people irrespective of their presentation. I just wish everyone could just do that. It will just make this world a better place.