Electrolysis or Laser Hair Removal . . .

[gina_taylor]

The other day I was talking with two of my friends, and one has been having electrolysis for five years and is almost finished and the other has had three sesions with laser hair removal. Both look good, but later that night I was looking through my True Selves book on page 133 where Mildred Brown talks about electrolysis and the amount of hairs just on the face alone and the final figure once complete. Then I started to think that perhaps it may be cheaper to go with the laser hair removal instead of the electrolysis. I plan on having a consultation with a plastic surgeon by the end of the week to see what he can do.

Gina

[melissa_girl]

Funny you should start this thread.  I have been getting electrolysis for the past 2 1/2 months for a total of about 9 hours.  I have actually been considering switching to laser removal (as I have ideal hair/skin) and have a consultation appointment on Saturday.

Here's the reasons that swayed my decision:
1. Overall, it costs less. 
2. It's faster in the long run. 
3. I've heard good results from people. 
4. I have ideal hair/skin type.
5. I will have fewer appointments in the middle of my work day. 
6. They have a 3-Year guarantee and I can come back as many times as needed in that period.
7. My electrolysis is not being as permanent as I had hoped.
8. I do not need to grow out a beard for a week beforehand.

I have been told they have an 88-94% removal rate per session and I figure if I have any light colored hairs remaining, I can finish up with more electrolysis.

Melissa

[stephanie_craxford]

Funny you should start this thread.  I have been getting electrolysis for the past 2 1/2 months for a total of about 9 hours.  I have actually been considering switching to laser removal (as I have ideal hair/skin) and have a consultation appointment on Saturday.

Here's the reasons that swayed my decision:
1. Overall, it costs less. 
2. It's faster in the long run. 
3. I've heard good results from people. 
4. I have ideal hair/skin type.
5. I will have fewer appointments in the middle of my work day. 
6. They have a 3-Year guarantee and I can come back as many times as needed in that period.
7. My electrolysis is not being as permanent as I had hoped.
8. I do not need to grow out a beard for a week beforehand.

I have been told they have an 88-94% removal rate per session and I figure if I have any light colored hairs remaining, I can finish up with more electrolysis.

Melissa

This topic has been discussed many, many times, so be sure that you read the threads on this topic.  Terri-gene wrote an excellent topic on this, and you can read her article here

and there is also a very good article in the Wiki found here:

Hair Removal

Also just to comment on a couple of the points you raised Melissa if I may:

1. Laser hair removal is not permanent and they know this that is why they only offer a three year guarantee as the hair will grow back.  If it was permanent hair removal they would offer a life time guarantee.
2. Your electrologist not being as permanent as you would like would reflect on her/his skill as an electrologist.  I have been going to mine for over a year now and the results are wonderful and there is no regrowth what so ever.
3. The fact that you have to let your beard grow out for a week also reflects on the skill of your electrologist, a good one can work with 1 to 3 days growth, for myself I just need to not save the morning of my appointment.

Just be sure to read the articles on this hon, as I would hate to see anyone waste money.

Chat later

Steph

[melissa_girl]

I have read the articles and that is why I had originally chosen electrolysis.  I actually on was letting my hair grow out for 3 days.  I could do it with less, but it slowed her down.  I realize that it's not certified to be 100% permanent removal and that is why I said:

I have been told they have an 88-94% removal rate per session and I figure if I have any light colored hairs remaining, I can finish up with more electrolysis.

However, it is certified for permanent reduction.  If I spend $1000 and get rid of 90% of my hair, then I am way ahead of the game.  The cost to get rid of 90% of my hair with electrolysis would likely be $3000-$4000 as a minimum.

Anyway, I have heard nothing but good results from transsexuals who chose to go the laser route.  Another point is I have no gray hairs in my beard, which seems to be one of the big arguments towards electrolysis.  This seems to apply more to late-transitioners. So, if I am able to significantly reduce the amount of hair I have, it will save me time and money in the long run.

Melissa

[AmyNYC]

I have been getting electrolysis for the past 2 1/2 months for a total of about 9 hours... My electrolysis is not being as permanent as I had hoped.

I can't imagine anybody could see any results in 9 hours.  I know I didn't understand how the timeline would pan out.  Several times I thought I would be done with electrolysis soon, only to be disappointed later.  I started electrolysis with a light beard at age 23.  At 30 or 40 hours I thought I was coming close to the end.  As of last Thursday I've had 87 hours, but know I'm close to the end now.  I stopped shaving last August, and only have enough hair now to go an hour every two weeks.  My electrolysis has assured me I'll be utterly done with my face by the start of summer.

From the beginning of electrolysis (5-26-04) I was always on the maximum dosage of Spiro.  In January of this year I went to my doctor for an additional anti-androgen.  When I started on the new medication I was still having two hours of electro a week.  A week later the regrowth was cut in half, and I started going an hour every two weeks.  The medication is expensive, but it's much less than what I would be spending on the additional electro.  Just an idea to keep in mind.

Anyway, I have heard nothing but good results from transsexuals who chose to go the laser route.  Another point is I have no gray hairs in my beard, which seems to be one of the big arguments towards electrolysis.  This seems to apply more to late-transitioners. So, if I am able to significantly reduce the amount of hair I have, it will save me time and money in the long run.

A good friend of mine began laser treatments early in her transition.  (She's in her early forties now.)  She spent lots of time & lots & lots of money on it before she finally gave up and started electrolysis.  She's now had over 100 hours of electrolysis... I don't know the exact number.  She still shaves every day, and I expect her to need another 30-40 hours at least.  She's two years post-op and is still going to electrolysis because she thought laser would the trick.  When the two of us sit around griping about how much electrolysis sucks, she reminds me that SHE was the stupid one, and at least I didn't waste thousands and thousands of dollars and a couple years on laser treatments.

At least six times now my electrolysis has pointed out patients that originally had a consultation but decided to go with laser and ended up coming back to them because the laser didn't work.  Just three weeks ago someone called while I was on the table.  It was a client who had come in a year previously, but went with laser instead, and the phone call was to set up their first appointment after giving up on laser.  My tech just laughed.  She says she's seen it a hundred times.  My office doesn't argue with the people who "decide to go with laser".  They just sit back & wait, because they say they know the people will be back to them at some point.

I believe laser is good for some things, but not the face.  Just my two cents.

Amy

[gina_taylor]

Thanks for your comments Melissa. 

I was just reading a brochure provide by the plastic surgeon that will be handling the laser hair removal proceedure, and some interesting facts that I read were that it depends on metabulism and thickness of hair growth as to how many treatments a person will require, but I did like the idea that with laser hair removal it covers more area than with electrolysis, so technically you get more coverage for less money. But yes, the brochure did say that laser hair removal was not permenant, but neither is electroylsis. I have a consultation set up for March 7, and thereforth I'll be having my treatments. I do recall the report that Terri-Gene had posted.

Gina 

[stephanie_craxford]

Sorry Gina but electrolysis is guaranteed permanent, check out the medical literature on it, and I can back that up with close up pics of my face.  Just to back up Amy's comments... it will take more than 9 hours to start seeing any difference, it also depends on the machine she is using and the method she uses.  Some electrologists use the clearing method where you see instant results in small area's, and others use the thinning method where results are slow to appear.  However both methods are effective.

Remember to do it properly it is going to take time, pain and money there are no shortcut's no magic creams and no miracle lotions, anyone telling you otherwise you be leading you a stray.

Steph

Hmmmm I think I'm up to 4 cents now

[melissa_girl]

That was 9 hours in the same area being cleared over and over and over again, yet the hair still grows back as thick as it did before.  I wasn't on hormones when I started and I know this most likely contributed to this, but I would think that there would be at least some removal after removing the hair 9 times in a row.  I know there are people who are opposed to laser hair removal and nothing can change their mind.  I will let you know the results, but I have heard more success stories than failures.  I also don't doubt that I will need to do some touch-up with electrolysis at the end.

Melissa

[stephanie_craxford]

That was 9 hours in the same area being cleared over and over and over again, yet the hair still grows back as thick as it did before.  I wasn't on hormones when I started and I know this most likely contributed to this, but I would think that there would be at least some removal after removing the hair 9 times in a row.

Wow, that is not good Melissa, I can understand why you are unhappy with your results.  Any skilled electrologist will be able to kill a hair with a maximum of two applications.  Generally this is done with 1 application.  From what you have said I would drop this electrologist like a hot potato because they are either trying to milk you for as much money as they can or they are simply not good at their trade.

To effectively kill a hair the technician must have the skill to slide the probe straight down the hair, alongside the hair shaft to the root or what is known as the follicle.  Hair grows from the bottom of the follicle and this is the area that the technician must zap.  Too shallow or too deep and the chances are that the hair will not be killed.  If the technician doesn't get the probe straight down the shaft then again the hair will not be killed.  It's a matter of skill.

I am obviously not going to be able to convince you to stay with electro, and that is not my intent.  I just want to ensure that you have all the facts before you invest anymore money.

Here is one site that you should check out before making a final decision.  Just note that this is a very reputable, unbiased site and they refer to electro as permanent removal and laser as reduction.  There is a difference.

http://www.hairfacts.com/index.html

Steph

[Leigh]

Funny.  Of all the women I know some have at least tried lasar and  most of them went back to electro.

Melissa PM me who is doing yours and possibly I can recommend someone who is better.

Everyone.  The reason I asked for a PM is that I do not want to put names out on the internet for the data miners/bots to harvest.  If they are not already known for helping the T community I  will not "out" them.

Leigh

[Kimberly]

...
I wasn't on hormones when I started and I know this most likely contributed to this
...

No no no, electrolysis done properly destroys the hair follicle. Genetic men can have electrolysis done without issue.

Honestly it sounds like the tech isn't so good. 

[gina_taylor]

Sorry Stephanie, I guess I must have misread that piece in the brochure about the electrolysis not being permanent. I guess it really all comes down to how many times the electrolysist goes over it and actually kills the root. But believe me, I'd never put any stake on any of those magic creams or miracle lotions. like you said, it is going to take time, pain and money. But I will check out everything with the doctor when I have my consultation with him in March.


9 hours is a  lot of time spent on one spot Melissa, I really hope that your electrolysis is not trying to milk you, but is doing a good job. If I were you I'd shop around and see what other results you'd get and then you'd be able to make a proper decision then.

To effectively kill a hair the technician must have the skill to slide the probe straight down the hair, alongside the hair shaft to the root or what is known as the follicle.  Hair grows from the bottom of the follicle and this is the area that the technician must zap.  Too shallow or too deep and the chances are that the hair will not be killed.  If the technician doesn't get the probe straight down the shaft then again the hair will not be killed.  It's a matter of skill.

That's a very good description of electrolysis Stephanie. I actually bought a home kit once and I found that it was going to take me a very long time, and I had to find a quicker way to get it done. So I found a local place, but still I'd have to find the time . . .  Fortunately the laser hair removal place is just around the corner from where I work.

Gina 

[Sandi]

Whether electro or laser works better depends on the individual. Results for either treatment will vary with each one being treated and neither is very often totally permanent. I have had treatments with both and the results depend on the area treated.

The fact that laser is said to be "permanent" and electro isn't, is wording that the FDA determined it would allow, and has little to do with reality. Even if you get good results, in most cases you will likely need a mantenance sessions every year or two, although they too should decrease with time.

Either method when successful destroys the follicle. But sometimes the folllicule is only damaged (to varying degrees) and will grow back (as finer hairs) either quickly, months or years later. Hence the maintenance sessions.

[LostInTime]

I can't imagine anybody could see any results in 9 hours.

Everyone is different.  I have very little in the way of body hair and so I have had very little done in the way of electrolysis.  Unfortunately, I have thrown too much money away on epi-light (not perm at all) and laser treatments (very little cleared).  So a few hours of electro with a good tech has left some areas looking good.  Now just to get the bills paid so I can go back and continue the treatments.

[stephanie_craxford]

>...The fact that laser is said to be "permanent" and electro isn't, is wording that the FDA determined it would allow, and has little to do with reality. Even if you get good results, in most cases you will likely need a mantenance sessions every year or two, although they too should decrease with time...<

Wrong way around Sandi   Here are quotes from the FDA on each process:

Electrolysis:
"Needle epilators introduce a very fine wire close to the hair shaft, under the skin, and into the hair follicle," explains Anthony Watson, a materials engineer in FDA's Center for Devices and Radiological Health. "An electric current travels down the wire and destroys the hair root at the bottom of the follicle. The loosened hair is then removed with tweezers. Every hair is treated individually.  "Needle epilators are used in electrolysis. Because this technique destroys the hair follicle, it is considered a permanent hair removal method. The hair root may persist, however, if the needle misses the mark or if insufficient electricity is delivered to destroy it.

Laser:
Three-month clinical trials of the ThermoLase process showed at least a 30 percent reduction of hair on treated areas in 60 to 70 percent of people treated. Manufacturers must limit claims of laser treatment permanence to results substantiated by the clinical data. Thermotrex, (one of the manufacturers) therefore, can claim that its laser process causes hair reduction for up to three months after treatment.

Steph

[Sandi]

Oops! Yes Steph I had them backwards, my bad. Thanks for the correction.

[melissa_girl]

Well, so far, after my last electrolysis session, almost no regrowth, so maybe the area is finally cleared.  Hmm...   Anyway, the consultation doesn't cost me anything other than my time/gas.

Melissa

[gina_taylor]

Last Friday I was talking with a TS friend who has had five years of electrolysis done. She had told me that she had tried two sessions with laser hair removal (at $900.00 a session) and because she has blonde hair, it did absolutely nothing for her. So she's content with going in once a week for $55.00 and having her technichian do electrolysis on her.  Fortunately, my hair is dark, so I believe that the laser hair removal should work better on me, but I will ask the doctor about these things during my consultation.

Gina 

[melissa_girl]

I went for my consultation appointment on Saturday and I have to say that I am not very impressed. Since the last time I talked to them, their guarantee got shorter and their price got higher.  So, for now, I'll continue with electrolysis.

Melissa

[Sarah Louise]

The debate between Laser and Electro has been going on for years and will continue for years to come.

Each side has their own stories, both of success and failure.  I guess you just have to decide for yourself which works best for you.

I will say that you should wait to start (except for your face maybe) until you have been on hormones for a while, two doctors have told me that if you wait, your hair growth (other than your face) will slow down and you might, might not need as much work.

Sarah L.