Dating and Dysphoria

[CallMeV]

 Hi! I'm not sure where this post should go so my bad if this is the wrong place.

I'm a pre-op, essentially closeted trans man. I present, as far as the rest of the world is concerned, as a butch woman and I'm often assumed to be a lesbian. In truth, I'm a bisexual and prolly like a 5 on the Kinsey scale. I'm like 70/30 in my attraction to men/women. I find my dysphoria tends to be worse when interacting with cis men I'm attracted to and unfortunately, they are most often my potential romantic partners due to living in the deep south (Mississippi, USA).
  I've found that being perceived as a woman when flirting, dating, etc. causes severe dysphoria for me. It took me a long time to realize that's what I was feeling.  I can be very attracted to someone, flirt my little heart out and then when they respond to me in a way that makes it clear they see me as a woman, I instantly disengage due to discomfort.
  Anyway, I'm posting because I'm frustrated. I want to engage in sexual, romantic relationships but I dont know how to deal with the related dysphoria. I'm beginning to feel like I'm doomed to be alone till I can transition and move out of the south, or at least to a bigger city.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[OliverR.]

I'm a transman who likes masculine people (but is married), so i could see why this could be very uncomfortable. My brother (also trans) is bisexual and is on testoterone, mostly likes women though. are there any trans support groups in your area? I think it would be a good idea to go to one, you can meet a lot of people there, doesn't matter if you're fully transitioned yet.

[TomTuttle]

I relate to this. I am unsure about how I feel aobut gender so I'm trying to just stick with butch woman. But as a bisexual person I find this upsetting because I just do not know how to interact with men without feeling very uncomfortable about the way I'm being viewed. Even in my last relationship, which was with a cis lesbian, she always asked me if I was trans and tried to help me more than I expected but in the end she just wanted me to be a feminine like her previously gf's. She tried to avoid saying that but it was my feminine qualities that attracted her and that started to make me way too dysphoric to have enjoyable sex with her. Also I just didn't know what I wanted exactly to make me feel comfortable so that didn' help.

I find this really hard because I don't really have a set identity and I don't really want to transition. Like in every day life I'm pretty okayish but I just worry sometimes if I'll ever have fulfilling romanitc/sexual relationships. If I felt like I was definitely male, I would of course transition and that would give me hope that these problems would lessen. Are you planning to transition at any point?

[CallMeV]

I'm a transman who likes masculine people (but is married), so i could see why this could be very uncomfortable. My brother (also trans) is bisexual and is on testoterone, mostly likes women though. are there any trans support groups in your area? I think it would be a good idea to go to one, you can meet a lot of people there, doesn't matter if you're fully transitioned yet.

Unfortunately, it looks like the closest Support groups are over an hr drive away. I live in north Mississippi so that's not super surprising.

  I plan to try to attend them anyway, but right now the car I have is not at all reliable for a drive at that distance. As part of my transition plan, I'm working on getting a new(er) car. Not just for the support groups but depending on the response to 'coming out' I may need to move for work and safety.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[CallMeV]

I relate to this. I am unsure about how I feel aobut gender so I'm trying to just stick with butch woman. But as a bisexual person I find this upsetting because I just do not know how to interact with men without feeling very uncomfortable about the way I'm being viewed. Even in my last relationship, which was with a cis lesbian, she always asked me if I was trans and tried to help me more than I expected but in the end she just wanted me to be a feminine like her previously gf's. She tried to avoid saying that but it was my feminine qualities that attracted her and that started to make me way too dysphoric to have enjoyable sex with her. Also I just didn't know what I wanted exactly to make me feel comfortable so that didn' help.

I find this really hard because I don't really have a set identity and I don't really want to transition. Like in every day life I'm pretty okayish but I just worry sometimes if I'll ever have fulfilling romanitc/sexual relationships. If I felt like I was definitely male, I would of course transition and that would give me hope that these problems would lessen. Are you planning to transition at any point?

I really relate to this. I've had very similar experiences as I'm bisexual and have identified as genderqueer for the last 8 years or so.

I also kept finding myself dissatisfied in relationships because my partners kept viewing me as a butch or tomboy woman particularly Male partners. That actually was a contributing factor to my decision to physically transition, I feel like my relationship dynamics may be better.

  But I also still feel very genderqueer in my identity/presentation. I think of it as I should have been in a Male body and then been genderqueer/nonbinary. It seems like I cant get to the place I want starting from a female bodied location. So I intend to physically transition to a more masculine form while continuing to have a nonbinary gender presentation. That's why I actually prefer the term trans-masculine over trans man, because I really just want to move myself to the more Male end of the spectrum. I dont really think I would ever want to be a cis-het presenting man.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[SeptagonScars]

I relate to some degree. I'm not really on the transmasc spectrum because detransitioning from ftm so I did transition but then kinda realised oops that was the wrong route for me. I uhm... might have ended up on the transfem spectrum... somehow. I see myself as a woman now that I've figured myself out, and I'm afab so I guess I'm cis, but I don't quite look like it. I've a very deep voice, grow lots of facial and body hair, don't have tits anymore, my hairline receeded a bit, and so on. I did go off T but most of those changes are more or less permanent.

Except from my chest and hairline though, I'm actually quite fine with having those masculine features on my body. But it does make dating hard, and I do feel dysphoric about my chest and beard more than just occasionally, but not always. I'm a lesbian though, so I don't look into dating men. I'm already dating a close friend of mine, although we've only met online so far and are long distance. She's also a lesbian and I guess I kinda worry about things not working out between us, romantically and sexually.

I both worry about her not finding me as attractive in real life as she does online, and about my dysphoria not ruining my mood all the fripping time. But we do communicate very openly about everything, including this, so that's good.

So I mean I do relate in the sense my body doesn't quite match my gender either, although I can pass well enough if I wear a bucket-load of makeup and very feminine clothes, but I don't wanna wear that 24/7 in a relationship. Also don't wanna rely on shaving etc every day either.

I also get you on the point of wanting to start androgyny from an amab basis. You'd require more femininity in your style to even just appear gender neutral the more male your body and face looks. I'm afab but so thoroughly medically masculised that I do appear to be amab, even in a fem style. If I'm not mistaken for a gnc man I'm mistaken for a trans woman, basically. And it's way easier for me to pass as male now. Although I'm not very happy about being in that situation, now knowing I was never male in my gender to begin with... but the more thought I've put into it, the more I do like it. I guess maybe I'm just distressed cause now I'm not automatically read as female anymore. I both miss it and don't want it back at the same time. I guess that's a tricky situation to be in. I see myself as detransitioning because I stopped my medical transition and desisted (identify with my birth sex again) even if I'll not reverse anything.

I also relate on the dysphoria aspect (cause I'm often assumed to be amab, and struggle with my ambiguous body) and just not sure how to deal with that in intimate situations. It's gone awry before... I did date men before, and did hookups too. Let's just say that they were extremely inconsiderate of my limits, personal issues with identity, dysphoria, etc. So like on top of me not having been attracted to them, they were total douchebags as well. One even stalked me, several coerced me into sex, and worse. I'd be careful with cis men especially if you'd go for hookups.

I'm far from having fully figured myself out yet, but I'm pretty sure I wanna keep my beard (yes despite it making me dysphoric, cause I love it too), my body hair and not try to change my voice. Although I've been very on and off about that before and I might change my mind again and again before reaching a final conclusion. But I feel very sure about my gender being totally female, no matter what I'll decide to do with my appearance.

All throughout my transition and now in my detransition I always found that online dating was the best solution to loneliness. Me also living rather isolated (on a small island that belongs to Sweden) I know how hard it is to meet new people irl. Although with online dating of course comes the seemingly unavoidable creeps and >-bleeped-<s... at least there are plenty of people there and a few of those might be decent enough and worth a shot.

[Gabriel_C]

Hi! I'm not sure where this post should go so my bad if this is the wrong place.

I'm a pre-op, essentially closeted trans man. I present, as far as the rest of the world is concerned, as a butch woman and I'm often assumed to be a lesbian. In truth, I'm a bisexual and prolly like a 5 on the Kinsey scale. I'm like 70/30 in my attraction to men/women. I find my dysphoria tends to be worse when interacting with cis men I'm attracted to and unfortunately, they are most often my potential romantic partners due to living in the deep south (Mississippi, USA).
  I've found that being perceived as a woman when flirting, dating, etc. causes severe dysphoria for me. It took me a long time to realize that's what I was feeling.  I can be very attracted to someone, flirt my little heart out and then when they respond to me in a way that makes it clear they see me as a woman, I instantly disengage due to discomfort.
  Anyway, I'm posting because I'm frustrated. I want to engage in sexual, romantic relationships but I dont know how to deal with the related dysphoria. I'm beginning to feel like I'm doomed to be alone till I can transition and move out of the south, or at least to a bigger city.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I hear you, man... That's exactly how I feel.

I'm a gay FTM and I didn't transition yet (don't know if I'll ever be able to). After dealing with a few failed romantic relationships (because of those same reasons you presented), I decided to run away from any potential admirers... The dysphoric feelings run wild everytime I'm in a relationship, for being treated as a woman. When we reach intimacy, it gets even worse. I, too, believe I'll be alone forever. It's a terrible feeling.

[Kylo]

Quite honestly I expected the dysphoria over this particular subject never to go away because although bisexual I do have a preference for males. But following HRT it's improved a great deal because I myself feel more relaxed and flexible about the whole topic of masculinity and femininity. I no longer feel the need to remain more rigidly non-feminine in a private setting.

I'm not dating, I have a long-term partner of 12 years but if I was in such a situation, I think the HRT enabled me to finally allow myself some leeway in terms of expression so it might not be so bad. Guess I must be one of the lucky ones for whom the HRT really has taken away most of the issues including the need to be seen as masculine by everyone all of the time. I'll slowly come around to some compromises on that front I think. And I feel increasingly "all right" about that. Takes time though.

[Kirsteneklund7]

Quite honestly I expected the dysphoria over this particular subject never to go away because although bisexual I do have a preference for males. But following HRT it's improved a great deal because I myself feel more relaxed and flexible about the whole topic of masculinity and femininity. I no longer feel the need to remain more rigidly non-feminine in a private setting.

I'm not dating, I have a long-term partner of 12 years but if I was in such a situation, I think the HRT enabled me to finally allow myself some leeway in terms of expression so it might not be so bad. Guess I must be one of the lucky ones for whom the HRT really has taken away most of the issues including the need to be seen as masculine by everyone all of the time. I'll slowly come around to some compromises on that front I think. And I feel increasingly "all right" about that. Takes time though.

I am so glad to hear the HRT has relieved a good portion of gender rigidity. I believe we all have to establish a balance with our Yin & Yang. It sounds like you are going from strength to strength on that front.

I know the maleness comes naturally to you,

Would you dare allow more femininity in the mix?

Your favourite sticky beak, Kirsten.

[CallMeV]

I hear you, man... That's exactly how I feel.

I'm a gay FTM and I didn't transition yet (don't know if I'll ever be able to). After dealing with a few failed romantic relationships (because of those same reasons you presented), I decided to run away from any potential admirers... The dysphoric feelings run wild everytime I'm in a relationship, for being treated as a woman. When we reach intimacy, it gets even worse. I, too, believe I'll be alone forever. It's a terrible feeling.

Wow are we the same person? It really feels like my only hope is possibly sometime in the future if I can transition. That seems like such a hopeless pipe dream sometimes tho

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Gabriel_C]

Wow are we the same person? It really feels like my only hope is possibly sometime in the future if I can transition. That seems like such a hopeless pipe dream sometimes tho

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I guess we're "dysphoria-twin-brothers". 

But you do have more hope in your heart than I do. I know there are a few gay FTMs out there who transitioned and have boyfriends. But I consider them a lucky few, because most people won't date a trans person (unless they're trans themselves)... and I think it gets worse within the gay community. So, even if I transitioned, I still think I would be alone.

[Kylo]

I am so glad to hear the HRT has relieved a good portion of gender rigidity. I believe we all have to establish a balance with our Yin & Yang. It sounds like you are going from strength to strength on that front.

I know the maleness comes naturally to you,

Would you dare allow more femininity in the mix?

Your favourite sticky beak, Kirsten.

I probably would, although in general I'm not the type who will do things in order to "stick out" or get noticed. I stick out and get noticed regardless to a certain extent but my internal instincts are not to do anything to encourage that. I've come to terms with it internally this last year, seeing this side of me that I wasn't able to see before, which HRT has made more visible to me. I'm really quite comfortable with it, surprisingly so. I was not comfortable with many aspects of myself when I was younger and as time and the treatment goes on I feel more and more at ease, whatever happens, or whatever I end up being seen as. I know myself and when you know yourself and like yourself that's a good team.

[boyskytard]

dating and dysphoria is a really big thing for me, i'm re figuring out my sexuality because of it
on one hand, i am attracted to women in theory, but being around them and their interests makes me dysphoric because its what i've been trying to escape, even though it does make me feel for masc knowing i act nothing like them
but its still irritating if i were to be with them sexually because of not having a dick
and i like dick too and have no problem with it, except when i see a mans body and become upset because i dont look like that
it just makes me not want to date for a while because im pre everything and i feel like no one will see me as a man in the relationship until i reach a point in my life where im comfortable with myself

[Kirsteneklund7]

I personally spent many years not liking myself and not really being able to establish peace with my Yin and Yang. This affected my interactions on the dating front. I think now I allow my Yin and Yang to exist naturally. I like myself more than in the past. Ironically this has come at the cost of physical romance in my marriage.

My wife does not find my femininity attractive.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[CallMeV]

I guess we're "dysphoria-twin-brothers". 

But you do have more hope in your heart than I do. I know there are a few gay FTMs out there who transitioned and have boyfriends. But I consider them a lucky few, because most people won't date a trans person (unless they're trans themselves)... and I think it gets worse within the gay community. So, even if I transitioned, I still think I would be alone.

Have you heard of Lou Sullivan? I recently read a biography about him that really gave me hope. He was a gay trans man and a huge activist in the 70-90s. He's my new transition hero
 
  I identify as a bisexual but my preference does lean towards other men so I really understand the anxiety. I keep telling myself I just need to get to a bigger city where there is a larger population of open minded people. But that's like my transition, it's far in the future and depends on me somehow saving some money.
  Here's hoping it all works out for both of us

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Kylo]

I personally spent many years not liking myself and not really being able to establish peace with my Yin and Yang. This affected my interactions on the dating front. I think now I allow my Yin and Yang to exist naturally. I like myself more than in the past. Ironically this has come at the cost of physical romance in my marriage.

My wife does not find my femininity attractive.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

I don't really blame them for it, they are wired, like we are, a certain way, and like we have our disgust parameters aimed most often at ourselves for the exact same sort of criteria that they do, they just aim them at others since they aren't internally conflicted. All (ultimately) in service of reproduction, I guess.

[Kirsteneklund7]

I don't really blame them for it, they are wired, like we are, a certain way, and like we have our disgust parameters aimed most often at ourselves for the exact same sort of criteria that they do, they just aim them at others since they aren't internally conflicted. All (ultimately) in service of reproduction, I guess.

Very succinct Kylo.
Quite true I believe.
Always hold your snippets in high regard.

Kirsten x.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk