Boxes

[Tribble]

I brought up autism  because of your question, and the walls of text that followed.  While many people are "a little bit autistic," what you did isn't normal.

I'm sorry.

I do appreciate that you brought this subject up and your first mention of it actually helped explain some things to me and I do want to get checked out.

I'm wishing you'd used a bit more tact in your "what you did isn't normal" statement.

[Maid Marion]

Sorry about that.  That was lot of text to read.

[HappyMoni]

Hi Tribble,
   I don't have any magic answers to tell you what your box is. Uncertainty  can be harder to deal with than knowing an answer even if it is a bad answer, sometimes. So, I acknowledge the distress of not knowing where you fit in. Heck, look how many distressed people come on this site looking for an answer. Uncertainty, feeling like you are 'the only one' having 'these feelings' is pretty common. If I think of myself, I have found an answer as a trans woman. On the surface, I'm lucky to be one of those with this definite box to label myself as. If you look closer, I waited over 50 years to find that answer. It wasn't that the solution was overlooked for those years, it was also that nothing seemed to fit. I don't know that transition would have worked for me at 20, 30, 40 years of age. It might be that with different circumstances, I might have done something similar to your path. I know, I am not giving any clarification on what your box is. Maybe, there are in fact a whole lot more folks in the 'Tribble' box than you realize. Lol, maybe you are our long lost leader of the Tribbles. I'm afraid my true box is the wise ass box, as I think things feel better if there is a smile (or a disgusted shaking of the head) attached to it. I can only be a reformed Tribble. My very convoluted point is that maybe you are among many others like you, those humans searching for their box. I hope you find what you are looking for.
Warmly,
Moni

[Tribble]

Sorry about that.  That was lot of text to read.

I know.  It's a bad habit I've had for years.

I was feeling particularly vulnerable last night...big night out and I had no idea how I'd done at the time.

I'll try to be more succinct.

[Tribble]

Hi Tribble,
   I don't have any magic answers to tell you what your box is. Uncertainty  can be harder to deal with than knowing an answer even if it is a bad answer, sometimes. So, I acknowledge the distress of not knowing where you fit in. Heck, look how many distressed people come on this site looking for an answer. Uncertainty, feeling like you are 'the only one' having 'these feelings' is pretty common. If I think of myself, I have found an answer as a trans woman. On the surface, I'm lucky to be one of those with this definite box to label myself as. If you look closer, I waited over 50 years to find that answer. It wasn't that the solution was overlooked for those years, it was also that nothing seemed to fit. I don't know that transition would have worked for me at 20, 30, 40 years of age. It might be that with different circumstances, I might have done something similar to your path. I know, I am not giving any clarification on what your box is. Maybe, there are in fact a whole lot more folks in the 'Tribble' box than you realize. Lol, maybe you are our long lost leader of the Tribbles. I'm afraid my true box is the wise ass box, as I think things feel better if there is a smile (or a disgusted shaking of the head) attached to it. I can only be a reformed Tribble. My very convoluted point is that maybe you are among many others like you, those humans searching for their box. I hope you find what you are looking for.
Warmly,
Moni

Thank you.  I love to add levity to difficult situations, myself.

[HappyMoni]

Thank you.  I love to add levity to difficult situations, myself.

You're joking right?       

[CynthiaAnn]

Analysis Paralysis - the problem is real. One definition of insanity is doing something over and over expecting a different result

Overthinking about your gender or place on the spectrum can make your head spin (really), at some point you just need to live and be comfortable.

wishing you happiness, boxes are essentially invisible lines, we create in our minds

C -

[Tribble]

Analysis Paralysis - the problem is real. One definition of insanity is doing something over and over expecting a different result

Overthinking about your gender or place on the spectrum can make your head spin (really), at some point you just need to live and be comfortable.

wishing you happiness, boxes are essentially invisible lines, we create in our minds

C -

I knew of the concept, but I'd forgotten the term when I've been posting, but it's exactly what I deal with in almost every aspect of my life.

I've settled on NB/GNC (if they can somewhat be used interchangeably) for now and we'll see where I'm comfortable.

I really do believe that therapy and some RL social interaction will be key for me.

[Tribble]

Sorry about that.  That was lot of text to read.

Last message on this topic:

To be fair, on the very first TS forum I joined many, many years ago it was not uncommon for people to need to break their messages into two or more posts because phpBB could only handle a certain number of characters per post at the time.  Threads were filled with anecdotes and lengthy, detailed explanations.

However, I know these types of posts have gotten me into a lot of messes in recent years.  Time for me to adjust.

[Jackie S]

My brother got all of my dad's genes when it comes to talking.  I seem to have received my mom's.  She's pretty awkward, too, and talks as little as possible.

It's funny, I can talk and talk and talk and I'm perfectly comfortable on the phone with whomever I'm talking to, but as soon as you plop me down in a real-life social gathering, unless it's a subject that I'm really interested in or have some measure of knowledge about, I'm quiet as a mouse.  The gatherings I've gone to in recent years have been more painful than staying home alone, even in groups of people that are exceptionally non-judgemental and accepting.

You may have touched on one of the reasons I'm uncomfortable in groups of women, though.  I don't share many of their life experiences.  I don't like cooking, I get hot and I tend to "glisten" and get tunnel vision when clothes shopping and even if I didn't get my dad's conversational abilities, I was the beneficiary of most of his interests and very few of my mom's.

Social interactions are just one more issue I need to work on in therapy, but that's more of a skill thing than an identity thing.

Hi, Tribble.  Are you familiar with personality theory? More specifically the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI)? The reason I ask is that the traits you are describing are quite common to types INFP and INFJ. And, the things like writing batches of text, overthinking things (repeatedly), as well the feeling of not fitting in very well is also common to the type.

As you can see from my signature, etc, I am a gender fluid person. (I am also an INFP and have a few INFP and INFJ friends... which is a rarity in itself.) As a NB/Genderfluid person, I don't fit with the males, I don't fit with the females, and flow back and forth between the poles. For a while I thought my gender fluidity was the reason I didn't identify with either end -- I don't do frilly, girly very well. I also don't do most guy stuff very well, either (even though I've had a lifetime of trying to fit in there). So I thought it was the gender identity that was the "fault".

Then I realized that INFP and INFJ CIS girls/women don't do frilly, girly very well either. They have no interest in it. INFP and INFJ boys/men don't do "guy" stuff well, either. That's not where their interests lie. They/we just don't fit in with the usual guy or girl activities and outlooks. (Fashion, for instance. Or whose car is the hottest or biggest.) And that's when I realized that it was my personality type behind my own "don't fit in those boxes" awareness, not my gender identity.

Since you said you are planning on finding a therapist to help work through these things (a decision I applaud and encourage), you may want to also discuss with him/her how personality type may affect your outlook and interactions with the world. A good therapist is worth their weight in gold.

As others have said, most of us under the trans label are very good at not fitting into the boxes, so you are in good company.

Hugs,
Jackie

[Tribble]

Hi, Tribble.  Are you familiar with personality theory? More specifically the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI)? The reason I ask is that the traits you are describing are quite common to types INFP and INFJ. And, the things like writing batches of text, overthinking things (repeatedly), as well the feeling of not fitting in very well is also common to the type.

As you can see from my signature, etc, I am a gender fluid person. (I am also an INFP and have a few INFP and INFJ friends... which is a rarity in itself.) As a NB/Genderfluid person, I don't fit with the males, I don't fit with the females, and flow back and forth between the poles. For a while I thought my gender fluidity was the reason I didn't identify with either end -- I don't do frilly, girly very well. I also don't do most guy stuff very well, either (even though I've had a lifetime of trying to fit in there). So I thought it was the gender identity that was the "fault".

Then I realized that INFP and INFJ CIS girls/women don't do frilly, girly very well either. They have no interest in it. INFP and INFJ boys/men don't do "guy" stuff well, either. That's not where their interests lie. They/we just don't fit in with the usual guy or girl activities and outlooks. (Fashion, for instance. Or whose car is the hottest or biggest.) And that's when I realized that it was my personality type behind my own "don't fit in those boxes" awareness, not my gender identity.

Since you said you are planning on finding a therapist to help work through these things (a decision I applaud and encourage), you may want to also discuss with him/her how personality type may affect your outlook and interactions with the world. A good therapist is worth their weight in gold.

As others have said, most of us under the trans label are very good at not fitting into the boxes, so you are in good company.

Hugs,
Jackie

Thank you, Jackie.  When I took my second MMPI in 2003 with my first gender therapist, I'm pretty sure she mentioned something about BPD.  I will look into this and ask whatever therapist that I find about it.  I'm not retaining a whole lot right now, so I think it's best if I can talk with someone that knows about it rather than only looking up what I can find on the 'Net.

[Jackie S]

Thank you, Jackie.  When I took my second MMPI in 2003 with my first gender therapist, I'm pretty sure she mentioned something about BPD.  I will look into this and ask whatever therapist that I find about it.  I'm not retaining a whole lot right now, so I think it's best if I can talk with someone that knows about it rather than only looking up what I can find on the 'Net.

That makes perfect sense. I wish you success with your journey.

Hugs,
Jackie

[Tribble]

Thank you, Jackie.

[mako9802]

Labels are for clothes and boxes are for dead folks.....

[Tribble]

Labels are for clothes and boxes are for dead folks.....

For some.  For others, they're more important.

Anyway, after being back on E for almost a week, I think I've found my answers.  They were there, but I haven't been thinking clearly.

Tomboy.  Fully female-identifying.

Sorry for the above mess.

[Jessica]

For some.  For others, they're more important.

Anyway, after being back on E for almost a week, I think I've found my answers.  They were there, but I haven't been thinking clearly.

Tomboy.  Fully female-identifying.

Sorry for the above mess.

Answers are hard to find sometimes and once in a while they're right in front of you.
And messes are made by many of us looking for those answers.

[Tribble]

[DKTGSupport]

I also have no clue about what I am

When I realized and later accepted that I was asexual my dysphoria started. Knowing that whenever you have an spontaneously one, it will never be used. I Really wanted to get rid of it because no one would ever be the receiver.
And when I think about the fist time I was wondering about my equiment it was in 20's.
I read about both men & women wh o actually would like to have that equipment. The main reason were that waste management is much easier.

I'm not transgender as in MtF, but have very warm feelings for the term neutrois. When the dysphoria has hit me I used my tight boxershorts(male) to forget what I had. Last month I ordered some female undies cos the shorts is'nt enough(too much space).
My solution is right size boxers(tight fited) and one size smaller in the hipster-model(with no stretch).
It helps me alot not to be remined about what I have.And it feels like I have an emty space(above shaft).

My sexual function(sensation & mechanical) is almost gone(self inflicted).It has helped me alot, so my thing is closer to a straw.
So for me I still support the neutrois idea, but being impotent as 46 yo makes life so much easier.

[Ann W]

Hi, Tribble,

I'm sure you've heard something like this before, so I won't belabor the point; but you're not the first person whose posts I've read who has difficulty categorizing themselves.

I know you want a box. It's OK to want a box. But, ultimately, the box is an illusion.

Gender non-conforming people have been around since the dawn of time. How old is psychology? What did people like us do before there were labels for what we are?

You already know many things about yourself. It seems to me that the thing to do is to live, and let wisdom and insight come to you in time. Some day, you may discover a name for what you are. Perhaps you will turn out to be something new, or at least the first to discover it, and you will create a new box, and others who share your box will thank you and remember you for it. But, in the mean time, why not just live? You already know so much about yourself; and there will always be new things to discover.

Luck and love.

[Tribble]

I will admit that most people can live happily ever after and not try to put themselves in a box.  That's awesome for them and I really am happy for them.

It's been suggested that I may have some level of autism and I have thought about this a lot in the past, but I thought that maybe I was just trying to figure things out and searching for anything that might apply to me.  Not quite to the point of being hypochondriac, but close, perhaps.  I'm thinking that my need to categorize everything, including myself, may actually be a form of Aspergers or another level of autism.

I just need to find a competent psych that can diagnose adults to see if I'm just grasping at straws or if I am, in fact, somewhere well along the spectrum.

Thank you for your reply.  For now, especially after being able to start HRT again after my long, unwanted hiatus, I'm comfortable being a tomboy.  Not NB or GF as I thought I might be, but just a straight up tomboy woman (far from straight, though. ).