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How the idea of "Passing" may be harming you, from a fellow self-conscious trans

Started by Paige Heuer, April 05, 2019, 04:00:40 PM

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Paige Heuer

A few disclaimers before I start:

-Trigger Warning: discussion of rejection of trans people who don't pass

-I'm not trying to villainize anyone who has done things mentioned in this post, I'm just trying to provide support for anyone who has struggled with the idea of "passing".

-Lastly, I will be speaking in terms of trans women, because that's what I am, and that's the community I'm familiar with, but I imagine that all of this will apply equally to trans men.


Let's take a second to look at the term "Passing". What are we trying to pass as? Well that's an easy one, cis women. Why are we trying to pass? That's a little more difficult, and I'm sure that everyone has their own reasons, but I'll try to tackle some of the main ones.

-Reason 1: For safety, and so society will treat us better. I don't think anyone who has been perceived both as a trans woman and a cis woman would doubt that at least generally, society treats cis women better. Passing can buy you into that cis privilege, which can take a lot of weight off of your back on a day to day basis. Also, there are also some situations where being cis is just safer. If a trans women gets cat-called in the street while being mistaken for a cis woman, if the cat-caller realizes she's trans that can put her in serious danger.

-Reponse: This is a completely valid reason to try to pass. I know that I've been in situations where I'm scared so I talk a little higher and let my hair down, but I don't know of any trans women who have this as their only reason for wanting to pass, including myself.

-Reason 2: So people will see us as women. Even if someone uses your real name, and calls you by she/her pronouns, that doesn't necessarily mean they see you as a "real" woman. If you pass, however, people will have to actively put in effort to not see you as what you as a woman.

-Response: This may be true, but by doing this aren't we letting cis people believe that passing (or at least trying to), is the only way for us to truly be women? And by doing this we're not challenging their ideas of gender, so in reality the only people who we're only winning acceptance for are the trans people who pass.

-Reason 3: Because it makes us feel like valid, it makes us feel like we're actually women.

-Response: This is the reason that I'm most worried about, so let's start to unpack that idea.

Why does passing make us feel valid? Well let's go back to the start and ask again, what are we passing as? Cis women. So, passing as cis women makes us feel valid.

If passing as cis women is the only way for us to feel valid and like we're actually women, that means that we think, or at least feel like, cis women are more woman that trans women are. This is very hypocritical when we're the ones chanting the phrase "Trans women are real women!".

We're ashamed that we're trans, and we try to distance ourselves from that identity as much as possible, at least in terms of our appearance. If that wasn't the case why would it feel so bad when we look in the mirror and realize that we don't pass, that we look like trans women?

This was the attitude in the early days of the gay rights movement as well. The general idea was, "Yes I'm gay, and I'm going to have to accept it, but in reality I would rather just be straight". And look at where we are now, we teach every newly out gay person that even though it may be hard, it can be amazing to be gay, and you can, and should take ownership of that identity, and show the world that you're gay instead of acting like just another straight person. Imagine if we applied that mindset to trans people, and passing.

Ok so, you may be saying, "So what, we want to look like cis women, where's the harm in that?" Well, there wouldn't be any harm if all of the trans women in the world trying desperately to pass all got there by their own accord, but they didn't, they got there because society at large, and especially other trans women, tell them that they need to.

If you doubt that, just look at the ways that we treat passing. I know that I've been guilty of thinking less of a trans woman because she doesn't pass. I know that I sometimes still am guilty of that. Even if I recognize that I shouldn't think less of them, it's so ingrained in my brain that it's hard to stop. This isn't only confined to me, and don't try to deny it because you all know exactly what I'm talking about. Sometimes we go as far as mocking trans women who don't pass, or who perform femininity in a way not seen as normal, even though I know for a fact that every one of us has been in that place.

We also talk about passing as if it's some great end goal that every trans woman needs to aspire to, and even if we claim to support all trans woman regardless of appearance, the attitude is very much still there within the community.

I know that this attitude caused me great pain when I was early in transition and still bought into it, and I've seen it hurt every other trans woman who I know. I felt like passing was something that I needed to do, and every second that I didn't it hurt. Whenever I saw myself, I could only see a man, because I was never trained by the community to be able to accept trans women who don't pass.

This may seem like a small complaint, but for me, and I know for other people, this was one of the main reasons why transitioning made me hate myself so much.

It isn't hopeless though. Over time I started to realize that these ways of thinking were hurting me, so I slowly forced myself to stop. I learned to love myself, and know that I'm valid without seeing a cis woman in the mirror. In fact, now I intentionally talk in my deeper natural voice just to remind myself (and everyone around me) that yes I'm trans, and yes it's ok to be proud of that.

We'll never win acceptance for everyone until we can proudly show the world all of the trans women who don't subscribe to the norms. So to every trans woman out there who can't pass, or who doesn't pass, or who just doesn't want to fit your mold, know that you're beautiful just as you are, and you don't need to live up to someone else's idea of what it means to be you.
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D'Amalie

'Trying to pass' is not a simple concept, as the length of the previous post demonstrates.  What an insightful post. 

Perhaps addressing the bigotry inherent in our societies...note the plural.  We obviously hold cis-gendered folk as the standard to which we ascribe.  How many thousands of years of evolution did it take and how many centuries of intolerance and castigation have the non-standard gendered experienced.  We are bucking those trends, trying to resolve the inequities in our roles and appearances in a fraction of the time it took to establish the 'norms' of convention.

I cringe and wring my hands at the pain and agony that goes on daily.  It's hard enough for us, living in the western world to reach for our identities...for most of us money is a primary wall every day, let alone passing.  It's not about passing maybe?  It's about happiness and acceptance.....

Am I missing the point?
One shouldn't open the book of another's life and jump in the middle.  I am a woman, I'm a mystery.  I still see and hear who I used to be, who I am, who I'm gonna be. - Richelle
"Where you'd learn do to that, miss?" "Just do it, that's all; ... I got natural talent." "I'll say you do, at that." - Firefly
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LunaLeigh

I just verbalized to my wife earlier today my desire to pass... I'm not sure it can be helped. There's a certain (abstract) way I envision myself and it is definitely not as a man trying to look/act like a woman. It is kind of sad but true and I'm not sure if it can be helped.

I'm going to keep some of the points in this post regardless and remember them when I'm feeling down. I'm sure this will be a bumpy road and hope that I can gain some positivity here.

Thanks for the great post


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Sephirah

Quote from: Paige Heuer on April 05, 2019, 04:00:40 PM
Let's take a second to look at the term "Passing". What are we trying to pass as? Well that's an easy one, cis women.

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. For some people, who they want to be is who they see in their mind's eye. And it's not so much a case of going into the process thinking "I want to be seen as a cis woman." Okay, perhaps the two go hand in hand and they're largely one and the same. But the thought processes behind it may be entirely different. It's a small, but important difference. Sometimes the person thinks "I want to be seen as me." That isn't wrong.

I understand what you're saying. And my heart agrees with you 100%. Be you, whoever that is. But by that same token, if someone wants to be themselves and that self is as identical to a cis woman as it's possible to be... if that's the person they see in their dreams and who their soul tells them they are... that isn't wrong, you know?

I've always had issues with the "P" word because for me it implies trying to meet other people's standards. But for some folks that is genuinely how they define themselves. Heck, in a lot of things we do in our lives that's how we all define ourselves. People look for outside validation to affirm what they think themselves. It's part of human nature. Very few people are strong enough in their self-belief to not care at all what anyone else thinks.

This is where the problems arise. See a good deal of trans women want people to see them as women. Whether it's challenging someone's idea of gender or not. It's not about the other person, not really. It's about an affirmation of how the person sees themselves. And having other people see what they themselves have seen for so long makes them feel like yeah, I am finally me.

That doesn't mean that people in different situations don't want that, or shouldn't have that, or that it makes who they are less valid than anyone else. This is the giant issue with it all. It's the association. It's saying "Okay you pass so you're legitimate and I may not pass as well as you so I'm somehow not."

That clearly isn't true. People are who they are, regardless of what other people see and tell you in your life. That core individual is what drives each of us to transition in the first place. But there's a nasty habit of saying that how one person does it is right, and how someone else does it is wrong. That it should be one or the other. And I don't believe that should be the case. I don't think you have to make people make a choice that they should have to choose to be seen as close to a cis woman as possible or should have to choose to try and make others examine their view of what gender is and how close to a pre-defined set of standards someone has to come before they are "accepted". There will always be both, and a whole raft more, types of people within our community and I think we can all find common ground to thrive within it.
Natura nihil frustra facit.

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." ~ Buddha.

If you're dealing with self esteem issues, maybe click here. There may be something you find useful. :)
Above all... remember: you are beautiful, you are valuable, and you have a shining spark of magnificence within you. Don't let anyone take that from you. Embrace who you are. <3
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Paige Heuer

I didn't mean to dismiss anyone who does pass, or who wants to look a certain way that happens to be similar to how cis women look, sorry if that was unclear in the original post. I try not to condemn anyone for how they present. I have absolutely no problem with individual trans people who find looking a way that happens to make them pass to be rewarding, but I do have a problem with the more general notion that trans people need to pass to be valid.

Even if some trans people passing does contribute to that idea, I don't think it's their fault unless they're saying "I'm valid and people who don't pass aren't".

Also, I agree that it isn't all about just looking like cis women. When I'm passing really well and am confident about it, my thought process isn't "wow I look cis!", it's more like "wow I look good!". However (at least for me), I know that even though I may not be consciously thinking it, my brain image of what a "good looking" woman looks like is based off of the traditional ideas of cis feminine beauty.

Thanks for pointing those things out!
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Sephirah

Quote from: Paige Heuer on April 05, 2019, 05:53:05 PM
I have absolutely no problem with individual trans people who find looking a way that happens to make them pass to be rewarding, but I do have a problem with the more general notion that trans people need to pass to be valid.

Even if some trans people passing does contribute to that idea, I don't think it's their fault unless they're saying "I'm valid and people who don't pass aren't".

Very much agree with you. People are valid. End of. Anyone who comes here and tells me they are who they are... then that's all the information I need to know. People know themselves far better than I know them. No one is really in a position to judge someone other than the person themselves. And heavens know we can be our own worst critics most of the time, lol.

QuoteAlso, I agree that it isn't all about just looking like cis women. When I'm passing really well and am confident about it, my thought process isn't "wow I look cis!", it's more like "wow I look good!". However (at least for me), I know that even though I may not be consciously thinking it, my brain image of what a "good looking" woman looks like is based off of the traditional ideas of cis feminine beauty.

If that's what you find beautiful then, again, nothing wrong with that whatsoever. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For me personally it has nothing to do with how someone looks at all. Their beauty comes from inside. But I'm weird, asexual, and physical appearance doesn't really have much impact on me. But different people see and feel different things. It's one of the beautiful things about being human. We're all different. :)
Natura nihil frustra facit.

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." ~ Buddha.

If you're dealing with self esteem issues, maybe click here. There may be something you find useful. :)
Above all... remember: you are beautiful, you are valuable, and you have a shining spark of magnificence within you. Don't let anyone take that from you. Embrace who you are. <3
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Rachel

It is much less stress to blend in than stand out.

I do not know if I pass. I have been told I do but then again are those people being nice.

When I was expressing part time and just on HRT I was walking down the street after group. Two people in group said for me to not walk with them because I draw attention to them. That hurt. Last summer I ran into one of the woman and she no longer wears a wig. She has very very thin hair on top. So she changed her perspective on the issue.

Years later and I blend in very well. I was asked Wednesday by a nurse, before an operation, when was the last time I had my period. I looked at her and she asked if I still had my period.  I said I am trans and she said ok. I could have said a long time. I was also asked this question last May by a nurse before an operation.

I have endured a lot of pain becoming me. In my personal life, economically, emotionally and physically. I am really happy being me and I enjoy every day. I want to be seen as a nice person and female. I am female.

I do not know if I pass and I care less about the issue than I did in the past; perhaps it is because I blend in well. Passing is easier that standing out, in my perspective. Passing 90% is easier living my life than passing 10%.

Wednesday I used Lyft to get to the Hospital. The driver gave me his phone number and he wants me to call him. :)
HRT  5-28-2013
FT   11-13-2015
FFS   9-16-2016 -Spiegel
GCS 11-15-2016 - McGinn
Hair Grafts 3-20-2017 - Cooley
Voice therapy start 3-2017 - Reene Blaker
Labiaplasty 5-15-2017 - McGinn
BA 7-12-2017 - McGinn
Hair grafts 9-25-2017 Dr.Cooley
Sataloff Cricothyroid subluxation and trachea shave12-11-2017
Dr. McGinn labiaplasty, hood repair, scar removal, graph repair and bottom of  vagina finished. urethra repositioned. 4-4-2018
Dr. Sataloff Glottoplasty 5-14-2018
Dr. McGinn vaginal in office procedure 10-22-2018
Dr. McGinn vaginal revision 2 4-3-2019 Bottom of vagina closed off, fat injected into the labia and urethra repositioned.
Dr. Thomas in 2020 FEMLAR
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Devlyn

I'm not a cis woman, I'm not trying to "pass" as one, and life is fine. When you accept and love yourself, the rest doesn't matter.
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krobinson103

I suppose I'm lucky in a sense that passing was something that came fairly quickly and easily. However, I've never sought to 'pass'. My journey has always been to that place where I feel most happily me. Having lived is South Korea, being tall and very white I spend over a decade being pointed out every single day. Before that I was openly gay, never tried to hide that.
Do I like being able to blend into a crowd? For sure! Is it something I obsess over? No.

I'm me, I'm trans, I'm a woman, I'm six foot two and I do 'pass'. When I didn't pass it didn't bother me. Its about living an authentic life, being yourself, and not caring what people might say or do because 99% of the time their opinion or actions means nothing to me and my life.
Every day is a totally awesome day
Every day provides opportunities and challenges
Every challenge leads to an opportunity
Every fear faced leads to one more strength
Every strength leads to greater success
Success leads to self esteem
Self Esteem leads to happiness.
Cherish every day.
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big kim

I don't pass, i don't care. I look OK for my age, 61 but am 6'1 & 1/2" , big build with a voice like Lemmy. I am accepted which matters more to me. I hang out with punks & bikers, people who if you show respect you get it back.I go every month to the open night for none members at Liverpool Hells Angels clubhouse, guys open doors for me & pull up chairs!

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p206x206/31046354_621161471568380_2876802617080545280_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=37055da6fbfe42b8b9da302ff9c861bf&oe=5D4418FB

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32841504_634250660259461_8706391560784183296_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=4611fcb38fb5d204cf2fa6854eaffbb8&oe=5D359AB2
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Josie_L

Quote from: Devlyn on April 05, 2019, 08:02:27 PM
I'm not a cis woman, I'm not trying to "pass" as one, and life is fine. When you accept and love yourself, the rest doesn't matter.

Love This! Such a short yet sweet and honest comment.
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Josie_L

Today's society dictates how we pass. Even many Cis women are judged on their appearence, weight, fashion etc.
Many of these women therefore seek cosmetic surgery or take drastic measures to 'pass' in today's society.
Even some men are now are grooming and looking after themselves more, again sometimes seeking surgery too.

No different to many trans women whoes sole aim is to pass, however some have the ability to do it naturally
compared to doing it forced or acting. Whereas some others need help and guidance.

Regardless, confidence is the key word to passing anyway.



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F_P_M

For me, quite honestly, i'd rather pass because then I could pretend like I really was born "a real boy" without all the stress and baggage and uncertainty that comes with ->-bleeped-<- and having to constantly rationalise and justify everything to people.
Sadly, a lot of our experience as humans is this need to please others, this need to justify ourselves to others and seeking external approval.
It's unhealthy for sure.

I think part of this "cis is real" thing is because that's what society TELLS us.
But also, I don't want to be seen as a girl dressing up as a boy, I don't want it to be thought of as a costume and depressingly, in our culture that's precisely how it's seen if you don't pass.

You're just "playing dressup"

And it sucks.

Maybe if we had less of these narrowly defined boxes of what "boy" and "girl" was, this desire to pass, this NEED to pass wouldn't be such a thing.

Gender roles and societal expectations are stupid and I hate them, and I fully intend to subvert the hell out of them but right now, if I wear the skirts I like it undermines my identity and makes me feel like "just a girl" which i've had to be all my life. I don't want to be a girl! I want to be a boy in a freaking skirt!
But I can't really do that till I pass. Boo.
And that's less about me and my image of myself and more about the people outside.

See if I don't dress in a typically masculine manner, if I don't try to really be as male as I can, to outsiders it's like i'm not really "trying hard enough" or "not trans enough"
and this idea that you're not "trans enough" is a hard thing to shake.

Society is dumb and gender expectations are actively damaging to everyone regardless of whether they're cis or trans, but of course we've all grown up with this internalised view and it's difficult to unlearn those expectations.

Transmen of course have it a little easier in that generally speaking when we don't pass we're just seen as "tomboys" or at worse "butch lesbian" while transwomen get a lot more crap meaning passing becomes a safety issue as well as mentioned in OP.

I admit, I kinda resent that I feel like I can't wear a skirt now. I LOVE skirts, they're comfortable and fun. My taste in clothing or colours or aesthetics isn't defined by my gender or my genitals but because society says it SHOULD be, me liking skirts feels like it undermines my masculinity and assertation that I am a boy in a currently feminine body.
If I wear a skirt I will just look like a girl in a skirt, i'll go back to how I have been my whole life. I'll be putting that costume on again and at the same time casting doubt over my gender identity for not conforming.

I mean I hate conformity, conformity is dumb, but yeah, we feel we HAVE to especially when we're still trying to find ourselves and assert that identity upon the world.

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pamelatransuk

Quote from: Sephirah on April 05, 2019, 05:20:20 PM

I've always had issues with the "P" word because for me it implies trying to meet other people's standards. But for some folks that is genuinely how they define themselves. Heck, in a lot of things we do in our lives that's how we all define ourselves. People look for outside validation to affirm what they think themselves. It's part of human nature. Very few people are strong enough in their self-belief to not care at all what anyone else thinks.

This is where the problems arise. See a good deal of trans women want people to see them as women. Whether it's challenging someone's idea of gender or not. It's not about the other person, not really. It's about an affirmation of how the person sees themselves. And having other people see what they themselves have seen for so long makes them feel like yeah, I am finally me.


Hello again Sephirah

I agree completely with your paras above. This is precisely as I see it.

I am going fulltime public in Summer but I have been out locally en femme many times on my own but have met others while out.

My preference is to pass to a reasonable degree. The reason for that for me is that I know myself very well indeed and far better than anyone else knows me and I seek others' validation/perception of me just to agree with my knowledge of me. I am not strong enough to not care at all what others may think. However their validation/perception is secondary to my knowledge.

Hugs

Pamela  xx


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pamelatransuk

Quote from: Sephirah on April 05, 2019, 06:10:55 PM

If that's what you find beautiful then, again, nothing wrong with that whatsoever. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For me personally it has nothing to do with how someone looks at all. Their beauty comes from inside. But I'm weird, asexual, and physical appearance doesn't really have much impact on me. But different people see and feel different things. It's one of the beautiful things about being human. We're all different. :)

Hello again

I can see both sides of this point. I think physical appearance (we both correctly state physical appearance as opposed to physical attraction) does help many people feel better about themselves. Beauty comes from inside also most certainly.

Coincidentally as you mention it, I am also asexual.

Hugs

Pamela  xx


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Maid Marion

There is another reason.  Social interactions go much more smoothly if they can easily sort you into the gender binary.  If  they can't, their minds get hung up on trying to figure this out, which throws away some of their capacity to do stuff.  Which matters in today's world of complexity, with cashiers having to remember all sorts of stuff to get their job done.  It doesn't really matter if they change their mind later, after they have done the important stuff in taking your order properly.
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Linde

I think passing makes life a little easier.  I am full time for about 7 month now, and I had my numbers of fail in the early beginning.  HRT might have changed my appearance more than I thought over this time, I don't know, but I am sure my longer more feminine hair makes a difference, too.  Anyway, I have not had a single passing failure for quite a while now, and I also beliebe the way you carry your self/present yourself, and the confidence you show, makes a difference if one passes or not!
02/22/2019 bi-lateral orchiectomy






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MeTony

Maybe I'm lucky or something. I'm still pre T but pass about 80% of the time. Until I open my mouth. Even with my huge chest. I have a G-cup. Most of the time binding it. Sometimes not. Body needs to rest.

For me passing is important. I hate to be seen as a manly woman.


Tony
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alyssalove2790

I don't really worry about passing anymore, ever since being full-time and on hormones the worry just turned off.

Of course I've had an androgynous body (and voice) to start with, that helped a lot and I consider myself lucky!

Well... I do take pride in how I look and dress though!
2018/**/** Coming out
2019/01/15 Begun HRT! Low dose Cypro and E.
2019/03/04 Full time woman!
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JoyJoy

I think it's a very complicated issue that will always be discussed but won't ever change.

I've never thought as myself as a trans woman first... I am me.. female. This is how I've viewed myself since transition finally gave me that freedom of honesty. I don't want others to view me from the trans lens and ask me about it, I'm more than that label and will not discuss it daily outside the confines of a safe space like this. We deserve our privacy.

Being hidden offers us the freedom to be ourselves without restriction or reservation.

There are downsides to this though, your capacity to express disdain of transphobia in such situations is impeded.
I once sat in my partners brothers flat while he and his mates laughed about a friend of mine they'd seen walking through the local shopping centre - I couldn't defend her without implicating myself, so I sat silently while they bitched. I felt so cowardly because that isn't who I am.

I see a lot of transphobia in my life but must sit silently while it happens. I was at work and a post-operative woman came in for a gynaecological visit and my colleagues were going wild, and I couldn't vocalise my disappointment in them because I was too fearful - I'm 4 years in, too deep to out myself now! That same evening while we closed up my employer started saying disparaging things to a colleague about trans women while I sat beside them doing the daily banking..... It was horrible!!

That doctor is amazing though, they swarmed over her asking her what it was like (practically hysterical) and she said very irately, "A VAGINA"... LOL -- That shut em' up.

EDIT: Well this is clearly a way that passing hurts us...
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