Don't connect with trans women who prefer an "alternative" lifestyle...

[Janes Groove]

The pride thing comes I think out of the Gay Lib movement.
Back then, and I'm dating myself here, sissies and ->-bleeped-<-gots grew up in a world where being proud of ourselves was a foreign concept.  We were a generation that learned to own the words that were traditionally used to hurt us.  Feeling proud of ourselves was a way to strike back against a society that was very much different than it is today.  Back then only straights were allowed to feel proud of themselves. 

[Linde]

The pride thing comes I think out of the Gay Lib movement.
Back then, and I'm dating myself here, sissies and ->-bleeped-<-gots grew up in a world where being proud of ourselves was a foreign concept.  We were a generation that learned to own the words that were traditionally used to hurt us.  Feeling proud of ourselves was a way to strike back against a society that was very much different than it is today.  Back then only straights were allowed to feel proud of themselves.

Back than I was straight, but I cannot recall that my friends or I have ever been proud about that!  I think the gay people thought it was that way, we never did, and we did not understand why ones sexuality is something to be proud about or not to be proud about.  The  way homosexual people all of a sudden started to do this into your face stuff actually made most of us feeling uncomfortable with them, and caused us to dislike them a lot!

I am still against this into your face, and the last place I would want to be seen I participating in any of the gay pride events.  Sexuality is a private thing, and there is no reason to wave it i front of me like a banner, my sexual orientation is nobodies public business! 
It is the same that it is nobodies business that I am transgender, for the outside world I am a woman!

[steph2.0]

Back than I was straight, but I cannot recall that my friends or I have ever been proud about that!  I think the gay people thought it was that way, we never did, and we did not understand why ones sexuality is something to be proud about or not to be proud about.  The  way homosexual people all of a sudden started to do this into your face stuff actually made most of us feeling uncomfortable with them, and caused us to dislike them a lot!

I am still against this into your face, and the last place I would want to be seen I participating in any of the gay pride events.  Sexuality is a private thing, and there is no reason to wave it i front of me like a banner, my sexual orientation is nobodies public business! 
It is the same that it is nobodies business that I am transgender, for the outside world I am a woman!

I wondered about the same things, Linde. For that reason I had no interest in going to any Pride events. I'm not a circus animal to be put on display. But after talking to friends who'd participated, I decided to go and see what it was about.

I learned something I hadn't expected. Sure, it was for us, but even more, it was for those who support us. I think the parade route was about two miles, and every inch of it was lined many people deep on both sides, all waving flags and cheering for us. The love and heartfelt support was overwhelmingly emotional for me, especially after being fed nothing but bad news by the media ever since I started transition. I admit I spent a large part of the parade with ocular leakage. They were smiling and welcoming me and my brothers and sisters (instead of haranguing us as sinners, as the religious extremists we laughed at did before the parade). I didn't understand why all those friendly people were there, and I really still don't. I'm just so happy they were. Knowing there are so many people out there who support us and don't consider us freaks or dangerous gives me so much hope for the future.

You might want to consider attending one once. You might be surprised.


- Stephanie

[Linde]

Knowing there are so many people out there who support us and don't consider us freaks or dangerous gives me so much hope for the future.

You might want to consider attending one once. You might be surprised.


- Stephanie

It might be true, but i wonder, where are all those wonderful cheering people along the parade route, once the parade is past, for a week, or a months, etc.
I just think about the small town 4th of July parades where all the onlookers cheer even for the septic tanker truck, because they throw a lot of candy.
Were the crowds at the LGBTQ Parade there for the entertainment, or were they real supporters?

[steph2.0]

It might be true, but i wonder, where are all those wonderful cheering people along the parade route, once the parade is past, for a week, or a months, etc.
I just think about the small town 4th of July parades where all the onlookers cheer even for the septic tanker truck, because they throw a lot of candy.
Were the crowds at the LGBTQ Parade there for the entertainment, or were they real supporters?

We can't know such things, of course. They could be there for the spectacle, or they could be working tirelessly 24/7 on our behalf - or anything in between. But I went to see for myself. Without going I never would have felt the love and developed my positive view of their motives. It's your choice, of course, whether you want to go and see for yourself, or develop your conclusions without the experience.

But why take a negative viewpoint? We ask the rest of the world to think of us kindly, even if they've never met us. Don't we owe it to them to do the same?


Stephanie

[Linde]

We can't know such things, of course. They could be there for the spectacle, or they could be working tirelessly 24/7 on our behalf - or anything in between. But I went to see for myself. Without going I never would have felt the love and developed my positive view of their motives. It's your choice, of course, whether you want to go and see for yourself, or develop your conclusions without the experience.

But why take a negative viewpoint? We ask the rest of the world to think of us kindly, even if they've never met us. Don't we owe it to them to do the same?


Stephanie

Stephanie
If I look at my local support group, most of them seem to be activists in the LGTQI movement and excited marchers in the Fort Myers parade.  But all of them seem to see being transgender as a secondary thing, and the activities as their major reason .  The remind me on drag queens who have not been made-up yet, and just sport long hair.  These are not the kind of people I want to hang out with. 
I am an older woman, and try to dress on the more dressed up/elegant side than wearing flashy stuff.  Those people are easily mid 50's, have very masculine features and are wearing hot pants!  That is not my style!
I am afraid to see these kind of people marching along with me in a parade, and I would feel out of place as i could feel out of place.  I don't know why they are this way, is it poor taste, do the want to make a show, or do they want to be shocking, whatever it is, it is not my way.

[Megan.]

Stephanie
If I look at my local support group, most of them seem to be activists in the LGTQI movement and excited marchers in the Fort Myers parade.  But all of them seem to see being transgender as a secondary thing, and the activities as their major reason .  The remind me on drag queens who have not been made-up yet, and just sport long hair.  These are not the kind of people I want to hang out with. 
I am an older woman, and try to dress on the more dressed up/elegant side than wearing flashy stuff.  Those people are easily mid 50's, have very masculine features and are wearing hot pants!  That is not my style!
I am afraid to see these kind of people marching along with me in a parade, and I would feel out of place as i could feel out of place.  I don't know why they are this way, is it poor taste, do the want to make a show, or do they want to be shocking, whatever it is, it is not my way.

If they make you uncomfortable, then I suggest you look more closely at yourself and ask why. X

Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

[steph2.0]

Stephanie
If I look at my local support group, most of them seem to be activists in the LGTQI movement and excited marchers in the Fort Myers parade.  But all of them seem to see being transgender as a secondary thing, and the activities as their major reason .  The remind me on drag queens who have not been made-up yet, and just sport long hair.  These are not the kind of people I want to hang out with. 
I am an older woman, and try to dress on the more dressed up/elegant side than wearing flashy stuff.  Those people are easily mid 50's, have very masculine features and are wearing hot pants!  That is not my style!
I am afraid to see these kind of people marching along with me in a parade, and I would feel out of place as i could feel out of place.  I don't know why they are this way, is it poor taste, do the want to make a show, or do they want to be shocking, whatever it is, it is not my way.

Okay, your call. The particular group I know in the Orlando area welcomes all, but generally we're just casual and mainstream. Most of us have the goal of just fitting in as women and men, with no "T" prefix. There are other groups that are a lot more flamboyant. That's their thing and it's cool. And really, for me that's one of the attractive things. Everyone is welcome, and nobody judges. Though I'm often told that I don't have to worry about whether I'm passing, I don't have to even think about it, and I can be as open as I like with my girlfriend (within the bounds of good taste, of course).

I know you're a long way south, but I'd love for you to join us in October for Orlando Pride. I hope that I won't be able to march in the parade this year, but that's because I hope to be recovering from recent surgery. [emoji16]


- Stephanie

[Linde]

If they make you uncomfortable, then I suggest you look more closely at yourself and ask why. X

Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

I would not have hung out with these kind of people when they and I were still men.  We simply have nothing in common!
Being some kind of transgender is not enough for me to all of a sudden become friends with these type of persons!
I think I am old enough to have found out, with which kind of people I like to hang out, and with who I prefer not to associate!

[Megan.]

I would not have hung out with these kind of people when they and I were still men.  We simply have nothing in common!
Being some kind of transgender is not enough for me to all of a sudden become friends with these type of persons!
I think I am old enough to have found out, with which kind of people I like to hang out, and with who I prefer not to associate!

It's not about being friends or spending time together, it's just accepting that they are as valid as you or me,  no better and certainly no worse.

Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

[Linde]

Okay, your call. The particular group I know in the Orlando area welcomes all, but generally we're just casual and mainstream. Most of us have the goal of just fitting in as women and men, with no "T" prefix. There are other groups that are a lot more flamboyant. That's their thing and it's cool. And really, for me that's one of the attractive things. Everyone is welcome, and nobody judges. Though I'm often told that I don't have to worry about whether I'm passing, I don't have to even think about it, and I can be as open as I like with my girlfriend (within the bounds of good taste, of course).

I know you're a long way south, but I'd love for you to join us in October for Orlando Pride. I hope that I won't be able to march in the parade this year, but that's because I hope to be recovering from recent surgery. [emoji16]


- Stephanie

I , too, hope you will be recovering from  very good surgery experience, and I hope that I have a date set for my surgery at that time!
I would love to come up for the case that I am already back home from my 3 months plus stay in Minnesota (I hope, I will meet with a lot of Susan's members during that time).  I can steer my motorhome towards Orlando with no problem!
I would love to get together with women who wan to blend in, and be women without waving big flags around.  This is what I am missing, because we do have some special issues, which cannot be understood or answered by my cis friends!

[Linde]

It's not about being friends or spending time together, it's just accepting that they are as valid as you or me,  no better and certainly no worse.

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They can be any way shape or form they want to be, I just don't feel like hanging out with them, or being associated with them, nothing else did I say.  They are not my kind of people!

I don't get it why you decide to lecture me about my feelings toward other persons, as I said earlier, just being transgender does not create a bond between them and I!

[MaryT]

I would love to have some trans friends. Unfortunately I don't know any trans people in RL.
...

You have me. I will move there <3
...

I thought that Julia lived in Denver, so I Googled RL to try to find out where it was.  It turns out that RL is where I used to think I live but now I realise I don't.

On the subject in the OP, I'm not sure what being trans has to do with connecting with people.   If e.g. someone does not connect with trans people with non-traditional lifestyles, that person will also probably not connect with cis people with the same lifestyles.

[sarahc]

On the subject in the OP, I'm not sure what being trans has to do with connecting with people.   If e.g. someone does not connect with trans people with non-traditional lifestyles, that person will also probably not connect with cis people with the same lifestyles.

Very good point! (I'm the OP.)

Yeah, the transness really has nothing to do with it. It's just the non-traditional lifestyle choices where we simply have different preferences. I mean, whether someone is cis or trans, that really doesn't matter.

I just need to meet more trans folks who share my interests...but they're tough to find because they're a lot more hidden.

Sarah

[Linde]

I just need to meet more trans folks who share my interests...but they're tough to find because they're a lot more hidden.

Sarah

I think we all have this problem!  Most of us have the feeling to be alone in the world.  And if you are intersex and trans, the chance to find another person like me is close to ZERO!

[BlueJaye]

I have the same problem. I have tried connecting with some of the local trans groups and found that I have very little in common with most of the people who show up to the meetings. Most of them are radical far leftists, have brightly colored neon hair, an unusual wardrobe, and tend to have anti-social personalities. The topics almost always end up becoming an endless stream of bashing cis people and not discussing anything constructive to actually help each other.

I'm very much more conservative in my views and lifestyle, I hate drawing attention to myself, and I don't want to sit around disparaging other people and crying about being a victim. I also don't want to show up to a trans support group and talk about abortion, or race relations, or the environment. I care about those things, but that's not why I want to speak with other transgender people.

[Kenzie4realz]

I know how you feel, when I meet other trans women I often feel detached. My lifestyle is bland and I'm not really into the alternative lifestyle either. I transitioned 2 years ago and 98% of my girl gang is str8 females and a hand full of lesbian chick's that are awesome and super supportive. I can't give you much advice on how to deal with that, but at least you can know your not the only one that feels that way.  Hang in there smile and wave [emoji16][emoji1366][emoji177] Kenzie

               
                   Best Wishes
             [emoji259][emoji175]Kenzie[emoji175][emoji259]

[SadieBlake]

Linde, you start from here:

The  way homosexual people all of a sudden started to do this into your face stuff actually made most of us feeling uncomfortable with them, and caused us to dislike them a lot!

You're aware that this amounts to homophobia, right?

I am still against this into your face, and the last place I would want to be seen I participating in any of the gay pride events.  Sexuality is a private thing, and there is no reason to wave it i front of me like a banner, my sexual orientation is nobodies public business! 

I don't think it's really your business whether people choose to be 'in others faces' and I think it would help if you understood the origins of pride marches. We are in fact at 50 years since the Stonewall riots. (and 53 years since the Compton's cafeteria riots

Homophobes, particularly the police very much made the sex lives of lesbian and gay and trans men and women their business (in the form of harassment, beatings, arrests) Pride is very much about responding to that in an affirmative way.

If I look at my local support group, most of them seem to be activists in the LGTQI movement and excited marchers in the Fort Myers parade.  But all of them seem to see being transgender as a secondary thing, and the activities as their major reason .  The remind me on drag queens who have not been made-up yet, and just sport long hair.  These are not the kind of people I want to hang out with. 
I am an older woman, and try to dress on the more dressed up/elegant side than wearing flashy stuff.  Those people are easily mid 50's, have very masculine features and are wearing hot pants!  That is not my style!
I am afraid to see these kind of people marching along with me in a parade, and I would feel out of place as i could feel out of place.  I don't know why they are this way, is it poor taste, do the want to make a show, or do they want to be shocking, whatever it is, it is not my way.

This has already been discussed but it's important to me to respond again to the title of this thread that suggests that being gay, lesbian etc is a 'lifestyle'. I'm lesbian and I also happen to have some fairly strongly felt sexual kinks. These aren't things I choose, they're just part of me.

As it happens I'm not all that comfortable around a lot of heterosexuals and just this afternoon I was talking with a lesbian friend about the difference we feel in the safety of 'queer space'.

Like you I'm first female, trans is really just the path I took to being a woman. I also happen to be lesbian and I also happen to be an activist. I *ALSO* dress pretty conservatively in most circumstances -- even when I was recently on stage in the performance of the vagina monologues, I chose an outfit that expressed the sexy side of an outfit that would  have been appropriate at a business celebration.

[Linde]

Linde, you start from here:
You're aware that this amounts to homophobia, right?

I think so, but that was the way we were brought up.  We overcame that mostly, and gave them more freedom in our country than they ever will have in the US!

I don't think it's really your business whether people choose to be 'in others faces' and I think it would help if you understood the origins of pride marches. We are in fact at 50 years since the Stonewall riots. (and 53 years since the Compton's cafeteria riots

Homophobes, particularly the police very much made the sex lives of lesbian and gay and trans men and women their business (in the form of harassment, beatings, arrests) Pride is very much about responding to that in an affirmative way.

I think it is very much my business, if people are in MY face!  They can march as much as they want, but when I listen to the reaction of my cis friends, these marches do not earn them a lot of sympathy!
I also do not want to be dragged into these marches, and even tough I am three letters "ITL" out of their logo, I do not feel any real connection to them.  I did not do any pride marches when I was hetero, and I will not do any now that I am lesbian.

This has already been discussed but it's important to me to respond again to the title of this thread that suggests that being gay, lesbian etc is a 'lifestyle'. I'm lesbian and I also happen to have some fairly strongly felt sexual kinks. These aren't things I choose, they're just part of me.

As it happens I'm not all that comfortable around a lot of heterosexuals and just this afternoon I was talking with a lesbian friend about the difference we feel in the safety of 'queer space'.

Like you I'm first female, trans is really just the path I took to being a woman. I also happen to be lesbian and I also happen to be an activist. I *ALSO* dress pretty conservatively in most circumstances -- even when I was recently on stage in the performance of the vagina monologues, I chose an outfit that expressed the sexy side of an outfit that would  have been appropriate at a business celebration.

I am like you, I happened to become a lesbian, because I became a woman.  My sexual orientation did not change, but i don't have any kinks that I am aware of, I am just a pretty boring older woman who happens to be a lesbian.

But I am also an activist, not for any sexual orientation, but for women in general.  We help less fortunate women to get back onto their feet again, after they hit a streak of bad luck.  And I also dress to the more elegant side, and hardly would wear a t-shirt in public.

[Amoré]

There are trans people who want to fit in with society, blend in and disappear as it were, and not stand out. Either to live as regularly as possible, or to go completely stealth and never be known to have been trans in the first place.

And there are people out there who want to deconstruct society itself, remove gender and gender roles, to create new genders and claim that science needs to add trans as a third category of biological sex, and god knows what else.

In my observation there is a distinct ideology associated with the latter example, who tend to assume that all trans people ought to follow their example, as well as ought to vote for progressive parties and espouse progressive ideas. Their mistake is assuming every trans person is the same, or that we inhabit a Borg-like hive mind. Most trans people I know a) do not want to be trans b) want the condition to go away which is why they transition and c) want a quiet life. That usually means identifying what you are closest to being and then being it. That usually means once done, you simply go back to living a hopefully improved version of your life.

On average most people are not excessively "alternative" - we can see this every time we look at people as they walk down the street or go about their business. But the "alternative" folks are more vocal and do stand out more by definition. They tend to be the activists, the group founders, and the people running trans organizations. It stands to reason you see less traditional leaning trans individuals as they are most likely to have completed their journey and dropped off the radar.   

I can relate to this answer so so much.

I have been attacked multiple times in a group that I tried to attend for not wanting to adopt their views.
I felt more rejected by transgender people and been kicked out of groups than by CIS people.

I was attacked because I asked questions about why they have this views and some of it just pisses general society off and is making it harder to accept transgender people.

You can't force a man that is not interested in sleeping with a transgender woman because of his own sexual preference. Then expect him to change his view because you want to feel more validated as a woman and him sleeping with you will give you that. You are a transgender woman he prefers natal woman. I am transgender and I even know that is picking a fight and will piss a lot of CIS people that have no preference to sleep with transgender people off. Because now they feel that if it is expected of that guy it is going to be expected of me.

I got kicked out of the group for not agreeing with a lot of their views.

I feel sometimes that this people with their distinct ideology is digging the hole of problems deeper for us.