Well THAT Was Awkward!

[SaraJason]

We spent a lovely day together. We've never spent so much time together. And we went out. In public. Together. For the first time ever.... And it was awkward. I've learned she's really not comfortable with ANY pda, which I can kinda understand at this stage.

I think the overall problem, though, was not knowing which way chivalry should flow and stumbling all over each other in trying. At least neither of us were bruised by the door to the restaurant. Then the, "No, you first" dance when ordering. She even offered to pay! After I had said this was my treat while planning this date and while deciding what to order....

Even conversation was stilted and awkward! And that's a problem we have rarely had in our many years of friendship and benefits, and definitely never to this extent.

I don't know if all this is a side effect of her transition, or a side effect of the evolution of our relationship. From the minute we stepped out her front door to minute we returned to her apartment, we were suddenly a couple of nervous teenagers or something!

After returning to her apartment, and gorging on the cheesecake I'd surprised her with, she did mention that, "next time", she'd be showing me another restaurant I've never been to. So if there's a next time, this time couldn't have been that bad, right?

I also learned that ten hours in her presence can easily mean watching her try on clothes for an hour or so. Twice. But I'll save my griping about her clothing obsession (LOL)

[KathyLauren]

Yes, the first few times out in public are awkward.  Thanks for being there for her!

My wife is quite firm with me about "chivalry": she wants me to lose it.  I am not allowed to hold the door for her: whichever of us gets to the door first is to open it, walk through, and hold the door behind for the other one.  Similarly, I am not to open her car door for her.  (Our car doesn't have an electronic clicky box for the doors.  It's an old-fashioned key.)  I am to open my door, get in, and then reach across to unlock her door.  Old habits die hard, but I appreciate the lessons in how to be a girl.

Learning new relationship roles is part of transitioning, for both the transitioning and the non-transitioning partner.  Be patient and supportive, and gently guide her into her new role.  Have fun with it.

My wife was a little weirded out by finding herself in a same-sex relationship through no choice of her own.  She insists that she is an LBM (lesbian by marriage), not an actual lesbian.   On the other hand, she wants us to appear in public like a normal same-sex couple.

[Gertrude]

Yes, the first few times out in public are awkward.  Thanks for being there for her!

My wife is quite firm with me about "chivalry": she wants me to lose it.  I am not allowed to hold the door for her: whichever of us gets to the door first is to open it, walk through, and hold the door behind for the other one.  Similarly, I am not to open her car door for her.  (Our car doesn't have an electronic clicky box for the doors.  It's an old-fashioned key.)  I am to open my door, get in, and then reach across to unlock her door.  Old habits die hard, but I appreciate the lessons in how to be a girl.

Learning new relationship roles is part of transitioning, for both the transitioning and the non-transitioning partner.  Be patient and supportive, and gently guide her into her new role.  Have fun with it.

My wife was a little weirded out by finding herself in a same-sex relationship through no choice of her own.  She insists that she is an LBM (lesbian by marriage), not an actual lesbian.   On the other hand, she wants us to appear in public like a normal same-sex couple.

Maybe she's just a kathysexual. Sometimes love transcends sexual characteristics. I think it's akin to being pansexual in the sense that you love that person regardless of what's between their legs. Maybe I'm crazy.


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[SaraJason]

Thanks for the insight! I guess I was expecting a little bit more of a role reversal, like I want to treat her as she has treated me all these years. My easy acceptance of her transition misled me to believe it should all be easy.

I don't want to guide her into a role. If anything, I prefer she guide me, show me what she wants her role to look like, and to see where I fit from there. I try to understand that clarity will come in time, and be patient with it. As an AFAB, nonbinary person myself, I'm not really caught up in gender expectation. That being said, being around her now triggers a fairly masculine instinct in me, a desire to take care of her, to "treat her like a lady". (ugh, typing that phrase makes me nauseous, so sexist!)

As for having fun with it, I tend to think it's nearly impossible for us not to have fun together. 

[Faith]

... I tend to think it's nearly impossible for us not to have fun together. 

go with that, let the rest work itself out without stressing over it

[TonyaW]

Yes, the first few times out in public are awkward.  Thanks for being there for her!

My wife is quite firm with me about "chivalry": she wants me to lose it.  I am not allowed to hold the door for her: whichever of us gets to the door first is to open it, walk through, and hold the door behind for the other one.  Similarly, I am not to open her car door for her.  (Our car doesn't have an electronic clicky box for the doors.  It's an old-fashioned key.)  I am to open my door, get in, and then reach across to unlock her door.  Old habits die hard, but I appreciate the lessons in how to be a girl.

Learning new relationship roles is part of transitioning, for both the transitioning and the non-transitioning partner.  Be patient and supportive, and gently guide her into her new role.  Have fun with it.

My wife was a little weirded out by finding herself in a same-sex relationship through no choice of her own.  She insists that she is an LBM (lesbian by marriage), not an actual lesbian.   On the other hand, she wants us to appear in public like a normal same-sex couple.

Kathy, my wife also finds herself in a same sex marriage not of her choosing, though she wouldn't say she's LBM.

Maybe she's just a kathysexual. Sometimes love transcends sexual characteristics. I think it's akin to being pansexual in the sense that you love that person regardless of what's between their legs. Maybe I'm crazy.


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I think I've seen you use similar phrase before.  I know my wife is not lesbian or bisexual, but maybe she can become tonyasexual.

As for having fun with it, I tend to think it's nearly impossible for us not to have fun together.  [emoji23]

As Faith says, that's a great starting point.
Otherwise ask.  Might have to phrase things as "do you want X" or "do you want me to do Y" rather than a general what do you want.





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[SaraJason]

As Faith says, that's a great starting point. Otherwise ask.  Might have to phrase things as "do you want X" or "do you want me to do Y" rather than a general what do you want.

This is a good point.  I sometimes forget how hard it can be for her to answer generalities, and I'm sure it hasn't gotten any easier for her.  I just have trouble sometimes, afraid that my questions might offend her.  No, she has given me no reason to believe this, it's just my own over-thinking.

[F_P_M]

sorry that's so adorable the "no you first" dance hahah.

I think setting boundries is a good plan setting out. "are you good with x" "would you prefer Y?" and so on.

I know I have to discuss this with my husband because he keeps holding doors for me and i'm like "come on man! COME ON!"
So now we have the race to get to the door first to hold it for the other out of SPITE thing lol.
We keep having "man offs" and it's really quite ludicrous. I suppose it just takes adjustment doesn't it?

I'm hoping he'll get used to referring to me by masculine or neutral pronouns soon. I don't MIND the feminine pronouns in that they don't hurt me but it sort of feels like he's not taking it entirely seriously to call me "she/her"
he has stopped referring to me as "wife" though which I appreciate. I'm "the other half" lol.
I still wanna be called husband but he said he didn't like that word despite being called MY husband for a decade! -_-
I think he's just not comfortable with that step yet but can't admit it.

Anyway,

hopefully it'll get easier as time goes on and you both get to know one another's boundries and expectations in this new phase of the relationship. Be open, be honest, TALK. Talk is SO important in relationships.

But don't sweat the small stuff, you'll get there.

[HappyMoni]

Sara some general thoughts that may relate! You are right, your acceptance doesn't guarantee her self acceptance. I have a partner who accepted me 30 or 40 years ago. It wasn't until I battled my own demons of fear that it all worked. When many of us who are trans step up our game, we aren't who we eventually will be. There is a settling in/experimentation process. The clothes changing and her awkwardness may be part of this. Patience and the occasional slap on the head of a reality check will probably get you to a better place. Good luck.

[Anne T]

[/quote]My wife was a little weirded out by finding herself in a same-sex relationship through no choice of her own.  She insists that she is an LBM (lesbian by marriage), not an actual lesbian.   On the other hand, she wants us to appear in public like a normal same-sex couple.
[/quote]

LBM! I love it...I've been trying to find something that describes my relationship with my spouse! I have no interest in other women nor men! I simply just love the person I married!

[SaraJason]

I'm sure I've said it before, but y'all are so wonderful!

It turns out that her mother is totally supportive, which was something she was rather worried about. I've never met her mother, but I'll admit, I was a little worried myself. Her mom even set her up with her first gender therapist appointment. She's excited. I'm.. worried, but I can't really articulate why. It's likely something to do with the fact that my only therapy experience is for bipolar and PTSD. To me, therapy is hard. I do hope that it's as easy and awesome as she expects it to be. Either way, I will have chocolate at the ready for after.

We're going clothes shopping together for the first time tomorrow. I'm actually kinda dreading this because I know absolutely nothing about clothes, fashion, makeup, shoes, or really any of the more feminine arenas. I mean, don't tell her, but I could honestly care less about any of that stuff. (she knows) I do know what looks good on her, so there's that. My only real hope is that it's a little less awkward than our first venture into public. No cheesecake this week, but I am going to suggest Italian for dinner.

She said something recently that kinda bothered me. She's noticed my fairly gradual transition towards a more masculine presentation. This has come pretty naturally to my nonbinary self, and I try tone it down a little for her, as I'm pretty sure she's still primarily attracted to the feminine. Frankly, she loves my breasts so much, it's the only time they don't trigger dysmorphia. Anyway, she said that she hopes her transition isn't "pushing" me to be more masculine. I pointed out to her that I started wearing a binder most days months before she came out to me. The truth is, being around her does seem to amplify it a bit. I think she accepts it, but i could find no real appropriate way to tell her that we are [I am] not dealing with my gender issues right now, thankyouverymuch, let's just focus on you.... I don't want her worrying about me, especially not in this context. I may have come out to her first, but she's much further along in her journey than I am ready to go myself. I just started another round of trauma therapy. My therapist and I have agreed that we can address my gender issues, but that it's not my primary goal right now.

Wow, that was a clunky paragraph. Side effects of not having anywhere else to let it all out. I guess this one is all about the fears I didn't realize I had... The fear of her eventual rejection, as she realizes that she no longer needs me, or that we're actually really not compatible, or that the timing is really wrong for us with all our different issues.... Or....

I never pursued girly girls before, but now that I've got one, how do I not lose her? How do I not lose myself in her?

[Faith]

... Wow, that was a clunky paragraph. Side effects of not having anywhere else to let it all out. I guess this one is all about the fears I didn't realize I had... The fear of her eventual rejection, as she realizes that she no longer needs me, or that we're actually really not compatible, or that the timing is really wrong for us with all our different issues.... Or....

I never pursued girly girls before, but now that I've got one, how do I not lose her? How do I not lose myself in her?

Sounds like the same fears each one of us has .. every day .. day after day after day. OH, not saying that to scare you, just saying that it's very normal to feel it.

I'm glad that her mother is supportive. Support is very important to counter self-fears and also negative reactions from others.

My wife is not your typical 'girly girl'. I pick out my outfits and to be honest, I've picked out a lot of hers over the years. Let her do her thing, all you need is "I like it" or "I don't like it"

[Moonflower]

It turns out that her mother is totally supportive,

Yay!

which was something she was rather worried about. I've never met her mother, but I'll admit, I was a little worried myself. Her mom even set her up with her first gender therapist appointment.

Yes!

She's excited. I'm.. worried, but I can't really articulate why. It's likely something to do with the fact that my only therapy experience is for bipolar and PTSD. To me, therapy is hard. I do hope that it's as easy and awesome as she expects it to be. Either way, I will have chocolate at the ready for after.

We're going clothes shopping together for the first time tomorrow. I'm actually kinda dreading this because I know absolutely nothing about clothes, fashion, makeup, shoes, or really any of the more feminine arenas. I mean, don't tell her, but I could honestly care less about any of that stuff. (she knows) I do know what looks good on her, so there's that. My only real hope is that it's a little less awkward than our first venture into public. No cheesecake this week, but I am going to suggest Ittalian for dinner.

Let us know how it goes!

She said something recently that kinda bothered me. She's noticed my fairly gradual transition towards a more masculine presentation. This has come pretty naturally to my nonbinary self, and I try tone it down a little for her, as I'm pretty sure she's still primarily attracted to the feminine.

I'm concerned. I want you to be your genuine self. I want you to express your deepest truth. I have tried so hard to tone down who I was, and it was never worth the sacrifice for me or anyone.

Frankly, she loves my breasts so much, it's the only time they don't trigger dysmorphia. Anyway, she said that she hopes her transition isn't "pushing" me to be more masculine. I pointed out to her that I started wearing a binder most days months before she came out to me. The truth is, being around her does seem to amplify it a bit. I think she accepts it, but i could find no real appropriate way to tell her that we are [I am] not dealing with my gender issues right now, thankyouverymuch, let's just focus on you.... I don't want her worrying about me, especially not in this context. I may have come out to her first, but she's much further along in her journey than I am ready to go myself. I just started another round of trauma therapy. My therapist and I have agreed that we can address my gender issues, but that it's not my primary goal right now.

Wow, that was a clunky paragraph. Side effects of not having anywhere else to let it all out. I guess this one is all about the fears I didn't realize I had... The fear of her eventual rejection, as she realizes that she no longer needs me, or that we're actually really not compatible, or that the timing is really wrong for us with all our different issues.... Or....

I have been rejected by people whom I was attached to but they no longer needed me. I have felt the deep soul pain of discovering that a dear person and I were not really compatible. I have felt the regret of realizing that the timing was wrong for a terrific person and me to stay together.

However, I have been cherished every day for 20 years. We marvel at how compatible we are. We are delighted that the timing was finally right for us to meet. May you find such a fulfilling relationship with your girlfriend or someone else. May you trust that someone is looking for someone just like who you are.

I never pursued girly girls before, but now that I've got one, how do I not lose her? How do I not lose myself in her?

I have tried to stop losing someone whom I was attached to. Letting go was life-giving after I felt the pain of the ripping apart.

I appreciate that you value not losing yourself in her. That alone is protection for you.