Marrying a man as a trans woman in a clerical ceremony when you are non-op?

[DebbySoufflage]

Heya,

well I think about marriage quite a lot, I'm a romantic soul and even though I currently don't have a partner, I've dipped my toes into the dating scene again. I'm determined to find mister perfect ( no one is perfect ) / my prince charming and something I wonder a lot about:
can I as a trans woman marry a man in a clerical ceremony when I'm non-op but have updated documents ( I'm Canadian but started a naturilization process in Belgium and the law here doesn't require SRS or orchie to change your documents. They adhere to the yogyakarta principles ).

So long story short, I'm legally female but have genitalia that are not standard for a female.
Can I marry a man in a heterosexual clerical ceremony?

After all, no one can actually force a physical examination on me before allowing me to marry , right?

The thing is that a civil marriage will never have the same magic to me as a clerical marriage. I want to walk down the aisle in the most beautiful, meticulously chosen wedding dress.

But can I?

Is it legally and ethically possible for a non-op trans woman to marry a man in a clerical ceremony?

I worry a lot about this pffff

Thanks for any and all input.

Luv,
Debby

[Michelle_P]

Is it legally and ethically possible for a non-op trans woman to marry a man in a clerical ceremony?

Of course it is.  Anatomical details are strictly private and on a true need-to-know basis.  Very few clerics insist on a "right of first night" these days, and there is no reason for a cleric to know such details.

Now, there are some faiths and individual clerics who will object to a transgender person existing, let alone marrying ANYONE.  You'll want to avoid those, and find someone more accepting.

That said, there are many faiths and many, many clerics who would be willing to help you and your intended wed.   I have attended several weddings now with assorted gender presentations and identities among the partners, and do not recall anyone inquiring about surgical status or genitalia.

[zirconia]

Hi, Debby

If your official documents state female then I can't imagine there being any legal barriers, at least if your country has separation of church and state and doesn't have an independent ecclesiastical court with separate jurisdiction over such matters.

Where non-legal barriers are concerned, one is the hypothetical situation that your parents and you belong to a national church, the church has been delegated recordkeeping, its birth records are handwritten (and thus haven't been updated automatically), state "male" AND the priest doing the ceremony looks at them and objects.

The morality I would believe depends mostly on your own sense of ethics.

If the priest is adamantly against such marriage and you lie in order to get him to carry out the ceremony, then it would be just like any other situation where you get someone to do something that they'd not do unless you deceive them.

Alternatively, if the priest is for you but your church as an institution strongly believes that marriage should only be allowed between a genetic man and woman, and/or you yourself feel that other types of marriages are against your god's will, then I guess you would also experience discomfort...

[DebbySoufflage]

So does the question ultimately become, "Should someone be able to legally force a priest to perform a ceremony against the priest's religious views?" Sorta like the wedding cake designer's suit.

Huh?
Sorry, I never meant such a thing.
I respect everyone's views.

But I believe that there are churches and priests out there that see trans women as women and trans men as men.
I just wondered if it would be an absolutely requirement for me to be post-op so that I can marry a man in a clerical ceremony as a woman, or if they would also do the ceremony for non-op trans women.
I mean, they can't force me to undergo a physical examination, can they?
My documents are all mentioning that I'm female.

But I still worried whether any physical proof of me being post-op had to be delivered ( I'm non-op by the way ).

I hope the question is now more clear to you.

[Linde]

I mean, they can't force me to undergo a physical examination, can they?
My documents are all mentioning that I'm female.

But I still worried whether any physical proof of me being post-op had to be delivered ( I'm non-op by the way ).

I hope the question is now more clear to you.

If you would want to get married in Belgium, I don't think that anybody would want to see your parts prior to a wedding.  You are a legal female, and no Catholic or Lutheran clergy would require a proof of your parts!

[Bea1968]

More and more you will find clergy that are sympathetic and supportive.  Society is changing slowly but noticeably.  We are living in a dynamic time where society itself is going through a transition.  We all know that the awakening and transition can be painful but enlightening and empowering.  I have no doubt that you will find Mr perfect and have your dream wedding.

Best regards,

Bea

[CindyLouFromCO]

I would not worry about it.  They don't look between your legs.  They will not know you are trans unless they ask you.