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The Story of Lori

Started by Lori Dee, February 23, 2024, 09:53:26 AM

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Sephirah

Quote from: Lori Dee on February 22, 2025, 08:31:30 PMI agree. Those three did a great job, then throw in Zoe Saldana, Karl Urban, and Rachel Nichols. I thought I was going to be very disappointed since I grew up with Shatner, DeForest Kelley, and Nimoy. But they did a great job.

So did I lori, but I think the way they did the "Into darkness" movie, and played on the original, was genius. I know a lot of people hated it, because like star wars fans, they hate anything that isn't a carbon copy... but they paid massive respect to Nimoy, in the movies and after his death. It was very classy.
Natura nihil frustra facit.

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Sephirah

Quote from: Lori Dee on February 22, 2025, 08:44:15 PMAnd Judge Dredd.  ;D

Wow, I forgot he was in that, LOL.

Yes that too :D
Natura nihil frustra facit.

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." ~ Buddha.

If you're dealing with self esteem issues, maybe click here. There may be something you find useful. :)
Above all... remember: you are beautiful, you are valuable, and you have a shining spark of magnificence within you. Don't let anyone take that from you. Embrace who you are. <3
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MaryT

Quote from: Lori Dee on February 22, 2025, 08:44:15 PMAnd Judge Dredd.  ;D

At least Karl Urban didn't show his face much.  (Did he ever take off his helmet?  I can't remember.)  Judge Dredd fans objected to the Sylvester Stallone movie because he usually had his helmet off.  In the comic, his full face was never shown, just his grimly determined chin.

I'm a bit of a megalomaniac myself, which is probably one of the reasons President Trump gets on my nerves - there ain't room in the world for the two of us.  The idea of judges like Dredd appeal to me: police, prosecutor, judge, jury and sometimes executioner, all rolled into one.  There have been such people in history: the original District Commissioners in British colonial Africa, the Veld Kornets of the Boer republics and the original Texas Rangers, for example.

Sephirah

Quote from: MaryT on February 23, 2025, 01:09:42 PMAt least Karl Urban didn't show his face much.  (Did he ever take off his helmet?  I can't remember.)  Judge Dredd fans objected to the Sylvester Stallone movie because he usually had his helmet off.  In the comic, his full face was never shown, just his grimly determined chin.

I'm a bit of a megalomaniac myself, which is probably one of the reasons President Trump gets on my nerves - there ain't room in the world for the two of us.  The idea of judges like Dredd appeal to me: police, prosecutor, judge, jury and sometimes executioner, all rolled into one.  There have been such people in history: the original District Commissioners in British colonial Africa, the Veld Kornets of the Boer republics and the original Texas Rangers, for example.


I can see the appeal of that, but I think there's just too much room for error and you give any one person too much power to decide. You can't do something like that when human emotion is involved because... it's too easy to abuse that power. That's why we need multiple people deciding stuff like this... so any one person can't. Which... I mean... Trump is a prime example of this.
Natura nihil frustra facit.

"You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection." ~ Buddha.

If you're dealing with self esteem issues, maybe click here. There may be something you find useful. :)
Above all... remember: you are beautiful, you are valuable, and you have a shining spark of magnificence within you. Don't let anyone take that from you. Embrace who you are. <3

Lori Dee

Quote from: Sephirah on February 23, 2025, 03:07:32 PMI can see the appeal of that, but I think there's just too much room for error and you give any one person too much power to decide. You can't do something like that when human emotion is involved because... it's too easy to abuse that power. That's why we need multiple people deciding stuff like this... so any one person can't. Which... I mean... Trump is a prime example of this.

This is why we need an AI-powered Justice Computer to decide the facts without considering any emotional elements. Either the crime was committed, or it was not. Black and White. Guilty or Not Guilty.  ;D
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Jessica_Rose

Quote from: Lori Dee on February 23, 2025, 05:21:28 PMThis is why we need an AI-powered Justice Computer to decide the facts without considering any emotional elements. Either the crime was committed, or it was not. Black and White. Guilty or Not Guilty.  ;D

Well, it depends on who codes the AI... https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,250273.0.html

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davina61

There was a story (Asimov?) about a central computer that got mixed up and someone was executed for Kidnapping Robert Lois Stevenson when he was just overdue on a library book!! Think it was from the late 50s or early 60s.
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 Karl Urban was great in Red too.  Big fan!

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MaryT

Quote from: Lori Dee on February 23, 2025, 05:21:28 PMThis is why we need an AI-powered Justice Computer to decide the facts without considering any emotional elements. Either the crime was committed, or it was not. Black and White. Guilty or Not Guilty.  ;D

Quote from: Jessica_Rose on February 23, 2025, 06:25:32 PMWell, it depends on who codes the AI... https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,250273.0.html

Love always -- Jessica Rose

Jessica's link story is very strong evidence that Lori has a good idea - as long as Mr Musk can't mess around with it.

MaryT

Quote from: davina61 on February 24, 2025, 03:19:21 AMThere was a story (Asimov?) about a central computer that got mixed up and someone was executed for Kidnapping Robert Lois Stevenson when he was just overdue on a library book!! Think it was from the late 50s or early 60s.

To be fair, real judges have pulled a lot of bloomers too.  I have been informed that Britain has quietly dropped, or is going to drop, the practice of deducting bed and board from the compensation of wrongly convicted prisoners.  However, they will not compensate prisoners who have had it deducted in the past.  There are so many that Britain just can't afford it.

ChrissyRyan

One needs to be careful turning over high impact decisions to computer software and data analysis.

In court if one is directed to answer not with a no or yes response, being cut off to giving details as to the why or circumstances could lead to misleading decisions.  Of course, giving details which are untruthful may also lead to misleading decisions. 

This discussion could continue at length I suppose.  There are many sides and viewpoints for issues. 

Chrissy




Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.  Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Help connect a person to someone that may be able to help that person.  Be brave, be strong.  A TRUE friend is a treasure.  Relationships are very important, people are important, and the sooner we all realize that the better off the world will be.  Try a little kindness.  Be generous with your time, energy, wisdom, and resources.   Inconvenience yourself to help someone.   I am a brown eyed, brown haired woman. 

ChrissyRyan

Lori,

Have a terrific day!  I have an appt to get to then to what I hope will be a smooth day of work.

Everyone else, I hope that YOU have a terrific day too!


Hugs,

Chrissy
Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.  Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Help connect a person to someone that may be able to help that person.  Be brave, be strong.  A TRUE friend is a treasure.  Relationships are very important, people are important, and the sooner we all realize that the better off the world will be.  Try a little kindness.  Be generous with your time, energy, wisdom, and resources.   Inconvenience yourself to help someone.   I am a brown eyed, brown haired woman. 

Lori Dee

Quote from: ChrissyRyan on February 24, 2025, 09:13:37 AMOne needs to be careful turning over high impact decisions to computer software and data analysis.

In court if one is directed to answer not with a no or yes response, being cut off to giving details as to the why or circumstances could lead to misleading decisions.  Of course, giving details which are untruthful may also lead to misleading decisions. 

This discussion could continue at length I suppose.  There are many sides and viewpoints for issues. 

Chrissy

In my book, Beyond The Flames, the Justice Computer does not ask any questions. The Prosecutor's Office submits evidence that a crime was committed and that the accused committed the crime. The Defender's Office submits evidence that the defendant did not commit the crime or that no crime was committed.

The computer evaluates the evidence:
1) was a crime committed (Yes/No)?
2) did the Defendant commit that crime (Yes/No)?

Everything else is emotional minutiae that is irrelevant. If you killed someone, it doesn't matter if you meant to, if it was a crime of passion or if it was pre-meditated or not, etc. etc.
Those are lawyer tricks that do not serve justice. Murder is a crime. Period. So the question would be, was it "murder"?

The entire penal system had to be revamped to allow the Justice Computer to operate. Killing someone in self-defense is not a crime, so the Defense could submit evidence of self-defense even though the Defendant did kill someone. Of course, the Prosecutor's Office would submit evidence that it was not self-defense.

The Justice Computer was not invented overnight. It evolved over hundreds of years and operated on a galactic scale.

(I should get back to finishing that book.  ;D )
https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,248674.msg2278324.html#msg2278324
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EllenW

Quote from: Lori Dee on February 24, 2025, 09:56:58 AMEverything else is emotional minutiae that is irrelevant. If you killed someone, it doesn't matter if you meant to, if it was a crime of passion or if it was pre-meditated or not, etc. etc.

I am sorry Lori, but I disagree. There are many times when a person kills someone i.e. a homicide. Which is the illegal taking of a human life is not a murder.

Examples:
  When you pull into traffic and cause an accident where a person loses their life. You still killed a person which is not murder.
  You built or installed something that breaks and someone dies. You still killed someone due to your negligence, but it would not be murder. Maybe in volunteer manslaughter.

In my opinion, there are too many variables for an AI to decide. It takes human emotion and intuition to decide the difference between murder and manslaughter.

Ellen

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Lori Dee

That is why I said the penal code had to be rewritten to clarify the definitions of the various crimes. As you pointed out, manslaughter is not murder, but it is still a crime. Negligent homicide is not murder but is still a crime. These are not the emotional things I mean. These are just definitions.

Bringing up someone's past, whether it is a history of violence or coming from an abusive home is not relevant to the basic question, did they commit the crime? Sometimes good people do bad things. The Justice Computer is not concerned with why they did it, only if they did it.

The emotional pleadings come into play during sentencing, not when determining guilt or innocence.
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MaryT

This Justice Computer does have merit, regardless of whether Ronald was guilty.  Actual innocence or guilt is not usually what courts are about. 

Most people think that the phrase "justice must be seen to be done" means that "justice must be done and it must be seen to be done" but that is not true.  It means just what it says on the tin.  It must be seen to be done but it does not necessarily have to be done.

For example, in English law, to overturn a court's decision, it is not enough to prove that the court got the facts wrong.  The original court is the sole judge of the facts and if they get them wrong, that's just unfortunate.  Until fairly recently, it was not even enough to prove that the court drew an illogical conclusion from the facts.  Apart from the new argument of illogicality, the only chance an appellant has is for his or her lawyer to convince an appeal court that the correct rules were not followed in the gathering, disclosure or presentation of evidence.

Based mainly on an episode of Perry Mason that I watched, I think that American appellants face a similar problem.  Sitting as an appeal court judge, Perry rejected an appeal.  He then went on to help to prove the person's innocence, explaining that as an appeal court judge, he had not been interested in the appellant's innocence, only in whether she had had a fair trial, which in US law she had.

Laws and evidence are so complicated that a computer is probably the only way to get a fair decision based even on the facts that are presented.  I remember the O J Simpson trial in which the jury was bombarded with a huge amount of damning but, to a layperson, baffling scientific evidence, including but not limited to an expert claim that in a population the size of Los Angeles', only one person was likely to have DNA consistent with what was found on the physical evidence and Simpson's DNA was consistent.  The defence had no answer to most of the evidence but found an expert who claimed that about ten people in a population the size of LA's could have consistent DNA.  In the end, though, the jury was swayed by the fact that Simpson appeared to have difficulty in putting on the gloves that the murderer was alleged to have worn.  The forensics experts must have wept. 

MaryT

Quote from: MaryT on February 24, 2025, 05:13:57 PM...
For example, in English law, to overturn a court's decision, it is not enough to prove that the court got the facts wrong.  The original court is the sole judge of the facts and if they get them wrong, that's just unfortunate.  Until fairly recently, it was not even enough to prove that the court drew an illogical conclusion from the facts.  Apart from the new argument of illogicality, the only chance an appellant has is for his or her lawyer to convince an appeal court that the correct rules were not followed in the gathering, disclosure or presentation of evidence.
...

Fresh evidence is also grounds for an appeal, as it was not presented at the original trial.

ChrissyRyan

It is important that we have a justice system and not simply a legal system.

There are some oddball laws, which can be changed with new legislation.

One hopes that ALL laws are fair and just.  It is hard to disagree with that statement unless one is not of sound mind or are evil or is possibly a fool.


Chrissy
Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.  Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Help connect a person to someone that may be able to help that person.  Be brave, be strong.  A TRUE friend is a treasure.  Relationships are very important, people are important, and the sooner we all realize that the better off the world will be.  Try a little kindness.  Be generous with your time, energy, wisdom, and resources.   Inconvenience yourself to help someone.   I am a brown eyed, brown haired woman. 
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ChrissyRyan

Quote from: MaryT on February 24, 2025, 05:56:47 PMFresh evidence is also grounds for an appeal, as it was not presented at the original trial.



It is good that DNA evidence can help solve criminal cases, including the old ones.

Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.  Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Help connect a person to someone that may be able to help that person.  Be brave, be strong.  A TRUE friend is a treasure.  Relationships are very important, people are important, and the sooner we all realize that the better off the world will be.  Try a little kindness.  Be generous with your time, energy, wisdom, and resources.   Inconvenience yourself to help someone.   I am a brown eyed, brown haired woman. 
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D'Amalie

Answering questions "Yes" or No" is a tactic used to derail truth.  There is always more.  Current state AI or computers can't go beyond the yes or no.  Our jury system is flawed, but it is better than the alternative.  No one wins.
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