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Will a BA and FFS be enough to push me into passing territory ?

Started by Selene858, January 01, 2025, 03:43:00 PM

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Selene858

HRT and laser has definitely changed the way I look but I still don't pass and I'm scared I never will

I'm waiting on approval for my BA and have my consult scheduled for both FFS and Trachael shave with a Kaiser surgeon that has a good reputation in my area despite being unknown on a nation scale ( hoping he's not booked out too far thanks to this)

I'm attaching pics of my face and body of what I look like now because at best I confuse people or people can tell I'm some sort of trans even before I speak

Normally I don't get pronouns but when I do I always get sird even when wearing makeup

I think my shoulders and rib cage are too large to ever pass but I want some honest no BS answers

I've never heard of FFS or a BA pushing people who don't pass at all into passing territory

Yes I know I'm feminine and pretty because I have positive androgyny

I get compliments phrased as jokes from my male coworkers as they've known since I started working there ( just found this out last week despite trying my best to "boy mode" until 2 or so months ago)

That doesn't mean I pass it just means the people who find me attractive are angry or confused about it and I'd be popular behind closed doors for ->-bleeped-<-

Most passerby's and especially women are still grossed or freaked out when  I walk past them ( it's probable I pass from a distance from the remarks I've gotten)

I'd rather be passing than pretty

Anyway here are some photos









Images removed for violation of Photos Policy, "Photos which show nudity; or people wearing undergarments or lingerie are not permitted. Clothing which is designed and intended to be worn in public (including sports bras and swimsuits ) does not fall under this policy."

https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,59974.0.html









Some before photos that make me feel delusional for ever thinking I could pass


















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    The following users thanked this post: Lori Dee

Lori Dee

First of all, stop worrying about passing and just be yourself whatever that means.

The whole "passing" thing is just more stress to get your appearance from fitting in one box into a different box.

There is an entire sub-forum specifically dedicated to this topic. You should check out the posts there. Go easy on yourself. Passing is not mandatory for anyone.

Go Here: https://www.susans.org/index.php/board,342.0.html
My Life is Based on a True Story
Veteran U.S. Army - SSG (Staff Sergeant) - M60A3 Tank Master Gunner
2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2019- 2nd Diagnosis / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - FFS & Legal Name Change
/ 2024 - Voice Training / 2025 - Passport & IDs complete
  • skype:.?call
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    The following users thanked this post: Sarah B

Selene858

Quote from: Lori Dee on January 01, 2025, 03:58:01 PMFirst of all, stop worrying about passing and just be yourself whatever that means.

The whole "passing" thing is just more stress to get your appearance from fitting in one box into a different box.

There is an entire sub-forum specifically dedicated to this topic. You should check out the posts there. Go easy on yourself. Passing is not mandatory for anyone.

Go Here: https://www.susans.org/index.php/board,342.0.html

Passing is important especially being able to pass to myself in the mirror

It's the difference between a somewhat normal life where people treat you as another human being or like some disgusting freak that needs to be avoided or straight up lynched

Some of the regular posters here already know my goals and that I want to get in a very conservative field and passing will 100% matter to the people who make hiring decisions and sit on hiring boards

It's the difference between being taken seriously or basically laughed out of a panel interview or psyche eval

Saying "it doesn't matter" is honestly quite laughable
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Lori Dee

Quote from: Selene858 on January 01, 2025, 04:05:24 PMSaying "it doesn't matter" is honestly quite laughable

I never said, "it doesn't matter".

Read the posts in the Passing sub-forum, then decide what you need to do to be yourself.
My Life is Based on a True Story
Veteran U.S. Army - SSG (Staff Sergeant) - M60A3 Tank Master Gunner
2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2019- 2nd Diagnosis / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - FFS & Legal Name Change
/ 2024 - Voice Training / 2025 - Passport & IDs complete
  • skype:.?call
  •  

Selene858

Embedded the photos since the Imgur link didn't work for the first set

ChrissyRyan

Passing is something that is very subjective.  We are our hardest critics.

Yet there are people who seem to look at you intensely and if they think you do not pass, then you do not, to them.  Others do not look at you as intensely yet they make their own conclusions or they do not care or do not notice you. 

I would like ALL others that interact with me to have absolutely no doubts they are with a woman when they are with me.  That involves more than looks of course.  Will that happen 98%+ of the time?  I would say no.

Can I enjoy being myself with a lower passing rate?  Yes.  Now, how low can that passing rate go?  I do not know. 

Life is too short to learn just from experience as we must also try to learn from the experience of others to make the best use of our time.  The passing sub forum can be useful and I encourage you to visit it.

It is good you are reaching out.  You may not agree with what some people might say or have said about passing.  But it is good for you to learn.

I wish you well. 


Chrissy
Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.  Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Help connect a person to someone that may be able to help that person.  Be brave, be strong.  A TRUE friend is a treasure.  Relationships are very important, people are important, and the sooner we all realize that the better off the world will be.  Try a little kindness.  Be generous with your time, energy, wisdom, and resources.   Inconvenience yourself to help someone.   I am a brown eyed, brown haired woman. 

Selene858

Quote from: Lori Dee on January 01, 2025, 04:09:08 PMI never said, "it doesn't matter".

Read the posts in the Passing sub-forum, then decide what you need to do to be yourself.

Why'd you delete the photos of my blurred out breasts ? I was trying to show how wide my frame is still and they where very small to begin with to the point it looked like a shirtless male

How am I supposed to get an accurate answer now if my biggest worries like ribs and shoulders arent visible ?

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Lori Dee

Quote from: Selene858 on January 01, 2025, 04:39:58 PMWhy'd you delete the photos of my blurred out breasts ? I was trying to show how wide my frame is still and they where very small to begin with to the point it looked like a shirtless male

How am I supposed to get an accurate answer now if my biggest worries like ribs and shoulders arent visible ?



Read the policy that I quoted where they were removed.

Specifically, "Photos which show nudity; or people wearing undergarments or lingerie are not permitted. Clothing which is designed and intended to be worn in public (including sports bras and swimsuits ) does not fall under this policy."

https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,59974.0.html

This is an all-ages public forum. Nudity censored or not is not appropriate.
My Life is Based on a True Story
Veteran U.S. Army - SSG (Staff Sergeant) - M60A3 Tank Master Gunner
2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2019- 2nd Diagnosis / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - FFS & Legal Name Change
/ 2024 - Voice Training / 2025 - Passport & IDs complete
  • skype:.?call
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    The following users thanked this post: Sarah B

Selene858

Quote from: Lori Dee on January 01, 2025, 04:43:00 PMRead the policy that I quoted where they were removed.

Specifically, "Photos which show nudity; or people wearing undergarments or lingerie are not permitted. Clothing which is designed and intended to be worn in public (including sports bras and swimsuits ) does not fall under this policy."

https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,59974.0.html

This is an all-ages public forum. Nudity censored or not is not appropriate.


Those are the only photos I have that really show how screwed my upper body is

Can't I just cover my entire chest area with blackout and call it good ?
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Maid Marion

Passing is more than appearance.
Walking, talking, and mannerisms also play a big part.

Expert birders can identify birds by how they fly, even when they are too far off to see clearly.

I often get gendered as female from my size and the way I walk.

Proper fashion choices can mitigate the typical "top heavy" look.
A white pleated skirt is a good choice for someone with an inverted triangle body shape.

tgirlamg

Selene!

First... Like Lori said... Try not to worry... I know it is hard because this process often consists of nothing but worries... but, learning to let go of our worries and fears... or at least keep them in proper perspective... is an important skill to develop as we seek peace/happiness/"success" along our path...

It is hard to fathom at the beginning when we are somewhat blinded by our fears of the future holds for us but, the concept Lori put forward... passing is not as important as we think... is true... all that this path asks of us is that we walk out the door each day and be ourself... we have often buried that self so deep that it takes time out in the world mixing and reacting to others to fully unearth "her"... protect yourself but, find the strength and power to be had in letting yourself be vulnerable to life.

Next... Your face is gorgeous and feminine... Your body was well muscled before, as mine was... I was very low body fat at the beginning...I lost 40 lbs of muscle (170 down to 130) but, it takes time... the last of the stubborn of muscle finally cleared out around 3-4 years into HRT... as the upper body reduces... hip tissue fills in more to balance things out further...It is hard to see body changes week to week, but they happen... at their own speed... dressing in looks that work with an inverted v can help us feel better and more confident as Marion mentioned

If you go to my blog (link in my signature below) there are a few pics that show my body which was once very much like your "before" pics...

The good news in all this is again, you don't need to do anything... except... be yourself... That's the secret... do that and everything else falls into place... May your journey forward be blessed and filled with amazing discoveries...

Onward Brave Sister,

Ashley 💕
"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment" ... Ralph Waldo Emerson 🌸

"The individual has always had to struggle from being overwhelmed by the tribe... But, no price is too high for the privilege of owning yourself" ... Rudyard Kipling 🌸

Let go of the things that no longer serve you... Let go of the pretense of the false persona, it is not you... Let go of the armor that you have worn for a lifetime, to serve the expectations of others and, to protect the woman inside... She needs protection no longer.... She is tired of hiding and more courageous than you know... Let her prove that to you....Let her step out of the dark and feel the light upon her face.... amg🌸

Ashley's Corner: https://www.susans.org/index.php/topic,247549.0.html 🌻

BlueJaye

First, I want to state that passing is VERY important for those who value it. Valuing or not valuing passing are both valid. Don't let anyone make you feel like you're wrong for wanting to pass.

As for whether or not cosmetic surgeries would make you passable, that is very difficult to determine from just still, 2 dimensional images. Passability is effected by several factors. Your body language, voice, and several other things contribute.

What I can notice visually is that you have rather flat cheeks. Fuller cheeks would help a lot. I'm not convinced from the photos that breast augmentation is necessary. You may desire it for other reasons, but I would not say it would be needed to pass.

Allie Jayne

I doubt it.. If you don't think you pass already, throwing lots of money at surgeries is not likely to change that. I have seen so many in our community super critical of themselves, and believing that surgery will fix their problem. It rarely does. After surgery, something else becomes a trigger.

You need to make sure undertaking surgery isn't about trying to quash an insecurity, or to achieve an image that others have generated. Passing is mostly about how you carry yourself, act, talk, and the belief that you belong. Look at women in a shopping mall, they are all shapes, sizes and levels of beauty, but they pass because they believe their place in society.

Most of us won't pass critical examination, but will move comfortably in public because of our confidence, and public apathy. Some of the world's largest companies are image retailers. They create images of how we should look to sell product, and they are so large because it works. Capitalising on this is the plastic surgery industry, but this industry has among the lowest satisfaction ratings. This is mostly because people don't have an appearance issue, but an insecurity in themselves. This needs treatment first.

Hugs,

Allie

VickyMI

So no BS answers (opinion) as you requested...

BA and FFS will do little for YOU to help pass better.  Your face is already gorgeous.  You are very lucky.  The only minor surgeries I would recommend is a Trach shave if your Adam apple is visible as it's a dead give away. And second one is a lip lift as it's cheap, fast and heals quickly. It really feminizes the face.

Regarding your upper body - you have the same issue I do.  My arms are muscular and I wear 3/4 sleeves and or shrugs to cover when I wear a dress. Time with HRT will lessen your muscle mass but until then look at jackets and other coverups. Also look into hip padding to widen your lower body to balance out your upper body.  This is very important to help "pass". 

Lastly how you carry yourself and voice training is a very important too. There are numerous posts about this.  Pay attention to it and be confident. 
Happy T Gurl living as Vicky half time.
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Tig58072

Try a different hairstyle grow it longer maybe. Do your eye makeup. Wear your earrings and a necklace. Dump the male looking tops for ones more feminine. That will change your appearance a lot. Adopt a more feminine posture.. walking sitting standing. Watch, observe adopt.

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Maid Marion

Instead of hiding your arms and chest, how about wearing feminine sleeveless tops with low necklines?
You will need to shave your armpits but that hair grows slowly.

If you really want to look feminine you could pair that with visible bra straps.
In some places that is a common look and some lingerie companies sell bras with straps that are intended to be seen in public.

What do folks wear where you live?  In New England fairs and parades are good places to observe what women wear.  A big part of blending in is knowing what women typically wear.


Lori Dee

That is good advice, MM.

Blending in is usually just dressing and acting like everyone else.
My Life is Based on a True Story
Veteran U.S. Army - SSG (Staff Sergeant) - M60A3 Tank Master Gunner
2017 - GD Diagnosis / 2019- 2nd Diagnosis / 2020 - HRT / 2022 - FFS & Legal Name Change
/ 2024 - Voice Training / 2025 - Passport & IDs complete

ChrissyRyan

Quote from: Lori Dee on January 02, 2025, 01:18:51 PMThat is good advice, MM.

Blending in is usually just dressing and acting like everyone else.


Blending in is the way to go for me.  I do not want to stand out.

Especially in cold weather.  HA.  Might catch a cold.


Chrissy
Always stay cheerful, be polite, kind, and understanding. Accepting yourself as the woman you are is very liberating.  Never underestimate the appreciation and respect of authenticity.  Help connect a person to someone that may be able to help that person.  Be brave, be strong.  A TRUE friend is a treasure.  Relationships are very important, people are important, and the sooner we all realize that the better off the world will be.  Try a little kindness.  Be generous with your time, energy, wisdom, and resources.   Inconvenience yourself to help someone.   I am a brown eyed, brown haired woman. 

Nadine Spirit

Quote from: Selene858 on January 01, 2025, 04:05:24 PMPassing is important especially being able to pass to myself in the mirror

Yes passing is important for a variety of reasons for many people. For some, it isn't important at all, just being alive is what matters most for some. It helps in my job, and yet, it doesn't really matter as everyone still knows I'm trans. For me, no matter how well I pass with the general public, students at my job will always know, it's just the nature of the beast.

However, where you are going to really struggle is with what you wrote, being able to pass to yourself. We are our worst critics. I've been in therapy for about 7 to 8 years now and my perception of self is something we talk about during every session. You are setting the bar very high. Instead of putting more money into your appearance, I'd suggest investing more in your mental health first. Just my 2 cents.
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Karen_A

Quote from: Nadine Spirit on January 02, 2025, 06:33:46 PMIt helps in my job, and yet, it doesn't really matter as everyone still knows I'm trans.

In general I think most people react more to what they see and experience rather than what they "know" which is why IMO passing well matters even when people know. I'm not saying knowing has no effect if one passes well, just that it tends to make people more accepting and less likely to make it the first thing they think about when they see you.


QuoteInstead of putting more money into your appearance, I'd suggest investing more in your mental health first. Just my 2 cents.

IMO the better one passes the more positive feedback one gets from the world and the easier it is accept one self and become more fully re-socialized as female...

That said one can pass perfectly but still lack that self confidence ... I have actually met a person who passed very well physically and even reasonably behaviorally that simply did not believe that was the case...

The physical and mental can work synergistically, but the physical means a lot less without the mental part.

- Karen

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