Is there an easy way to find out if you are intersexed?

[Rachael]

medical profession is based in fact, and most doctors know ->-bleeped-<-s will do anything to prove thier intersexed... another sad fact.
R >

[Seshatneferw]

... because being physically intersexed feels much better than having a mental disorder. Which, sadly, is the alternative as far as diagnosis is concerned.

  Nfr

[Rachael]

its not a mental disorder anywhere but the US....
R >

[Seshatneferw]

Not supposed to be, anyway. But yes, you are right. Still, it is easier to accept something that has a clear physical cause than something that is not (yet) that well understood.

  Nfr

[pebbles]

Oh yeah random point I worked out... If Transsexuallity is due to some kind of androgen insensitivity like mild AIS then theoretically it's imposable for a female individual with acute(Or total) AIS to be FTM ts... Not not that they could transition even if they were... as there body wouldn't respond at all to HRT.

A simple observational study could prove if this is or isn't the case comparing a sample of acute AIS individuals  and seeing if the numbers of transsexuals within said group and if it correlates to a similar amount in a random control sample of the background population. There can be some differences such as AIS FTM individuals who would be TS but they must be "statistically insignificant." for the test to be valid.

Problem with this experiment and method of proving if TS is associated with an intersex condition like this. Is that both conditions are exceedingly rare. And I did the maths there simply isn't enough people on earth to make the test valid or accurately compare the groups. The sample size required would be massive to see such a pairing of conditions.

There is insane logistics in getting accurate observational methods... And I doubt there is enough people on the planet to fill the sample groups.

[Rachael]

its hardly related to just ais....
as a fair few transwomen have no problem whatsoever breaking down testosterone...
more a general neurological mapping issue...
R >

[cindianna_jones]

Ya know....  how difficult and expensive it is to actually test DNA... and how reluctant some fundies are to accept science.

Yet they'll be first on the line to tell you that you have XY chromos and therefore are male.

I know that this is a bit off topic... but the discussion just brought this thought to my mind.

I believe that there is something different about us who are otherwise normal in most respects.  It may very well be in the DNA.  A couple of studies have linked it to a different form of brain development.  So, in this respect, IS might be used as a generic blanket term.

Yes, it is a holy grail for some of us.  I had a dream recently where I was hospitalized for ovarian cancer and my family came to the hospital begging forgiveness as I lay on my death bead.  It was the ultimate justification.  But I DO NOT WANT to die of ovarian cancer to have proven myself.  I feel that I have lived a good and happy life over the past couple of decades.  I have proven myself.  Those who fail to recognize it would probably not accept any scientific evidence otherwise.

Cindi

[Schala]

The FtM portion would probably be of CAH, not AIS.

Also the mild version of AIS is defined broadly enough to incorporate phenotypically male individuals who have hypospadias, to otherwise-normal-males who are idiopathically infertile (especially when young).

The fact is, the prevalence of mild AIS is not examined, it's considered either lower or higher than the average prevalence of AIS as a whole, but there's no way to know because people are not generally tested for Mild AIS like they are for Complete AIS (and the figure does come from the more-complete variations of AIS, the 1/20000).

[Valentina]

I only know of one.  A chromosomal check.  But these folks can tell you better:

http://www.isna.org/

[Rachael]

schala: CAH is by no means restricted to f2m or women, same that ais isnt resticted to 'males'
R

[Schala]

schala: CAH is by no means restricted to f2m or women, same that ais isnt resticted to 'males'
R

a CAH-affected male is not considered intersex per se (he has more testosterone than he would normally have)

an AIS affected phenotypic woman is only in the more complete variations, but it's also (debatably) the same condition

I don't think it stands to reason to say that a Complete AIS woman trying to transition to male is going to be even remotely prevalent, in order to prove that a good portion of lower-grade AIS do transition to female. The proportion I heard of is 5-10% of AIS transitioning to female, I don't know the figure for transition to male, if there is any.

[Rachael]

so what does ais and cah have to do with transitioning?
there is no link between being intersexed and transitioning.... or trans and intersex yet...?
R >

[Schala]

so what does ais and cah have to do with transitioning?
there is no link between being intersexed and transitioning.... or trans and intersex yet...?
R >

5-10% of those assigned male who have AIS transition to female

estimates of 0.003 to 0.1% of those assigned male who supposedly don't have AIS transition to female

I think it's safe to say that it suggests a correlation between lack of testosterone sensitivity (even if partial) promotes a higher proportion of transition. Even when controlling for other factors, the proportion is pretty high.

[Rachael]

do we have a true figure for what percentage of 'males' are trans anyway?
R >

[Schala]

do we have a true figure for what percentage of 'males' are trans anyway?
R >

No we dont, but its nowhere near 5-10%, I can tell you that much.

[LynnER]

kk, I have a quick question... being IS can lead to a miriad of diffrent and potentialy fatal health problems...  who WANTS to be IS... its more of a curse than a blessing...

Oh, and if you have bioligical children of your own, you are most likely not intersexed <atleast the physical conditions we know of>

[drkprincess]

Understanding what and why people think the things they do is something people make a living off of. I don't understand why anyone would want to be IS either, for me it has created more problems then it has solved. And it has its own array of health issues as Lynn said but mental issues as well, and your still left trying to find out where you fit into our gender role society. Seems to me this holy grail should be to just be born without having to deal with all this nonsense. I suppose that trying to find out if your IS or not is part of trying to figure out who you are and why things are the way they are for that person. Knowing is good but what you do with the knowledge is better, you shouldn't need to justify feeling the way you do, being IS does not do it. What you feel is who you are, and while finding where you belong is ok .... something I have been trying to do myself, It doesn't change who you are.

Too bad this is not a final fantasy game Lynn, you could fight like 200 battles and the curse would be lifted and we would be the ultimate weapons :-D LOL

~Rachel~

[Kim]

Oh, and if you have bioligical children of your own, you are most likely not intersexed <atleast the physical conditions we know of>

I don't know,people seem to follow what experts say. I don't and I am living proof that they aren't always right. And I know of another IS in BC I talk to a lot who has children with her wife too. My doctor just shrugs and says exactly what I feel, nobody knows what God has planned and nobody can stop it. And when I think of it, most times God and these so called experts seem to disagree more than politicians do. I don't follow these experts findings.
  OK ok, here's one - experts found in a study that 1 in 5 people snore. In a seperate unrelated study several months later  these same scientists found that 4 in 5 people suffer from insomnia but can't find a reason for it!! LOL A little joke I found in Reader's Digest but it kind of shows I am not the only one that knows better.
                        Kim   

[drkprincess]

I am gonna have to read up on this, I cant have kids myself but I wish I could. I suppose there is still alot we do not know about our own bodies. But Lynn did say "most likely" so I take it to mean that it can happen.

~Rachel~

[Schala]

kk, I have a quick question... being IS can lead to a miriad of diffrent and potentialy fatal health problems...  who WANTS to be IS... its more of a curse than a blessing...

Oh, and if you have bioligical children of your own, you are most likely not intersexed <atleast the physical conditions we know of>

Most likely true yes, but not absolutely.

There are XXY males who have fathered children, though rare, and some rarer conditions can result in unexpected things, so much so that the doctors don't know which condition it is.