Does it hurt us to be in stealth?

[Sarah]

I'm just going to answer this strictly speaking.
Your lesbian friend is right about how the gay and lesbian (and throught them bisexual community) is much more  accepted because they are open and visable.
Does it hurt us to be stealth?

It slows down the process of acceptance.

Which realy effects the next batch so to speak.
The kids who are trans right now but have not come out yet or maybe have not begun to transition.

I am out at my school.
I am treated normally.

even the teacher who I thought I might have some issue with did some research on her own and now seems fine.

That is thousands of people a quarter who see me and have no issue with it.

They see me as normal.

So we have an industry specific school. We are a comercial arts school.
We are also a small industry. People tend to know one another and know ones work.
Matt Stone the creator of South park came out of my school, many movie and film poster creators and many famous works were created by normal grads like me.
So when people in my field have no problem with me that pretty much means my field has no problem with me. And that I can expect it to stay that way since I will likely be working with those fellow students arround me in the field. My sienior classmates will likely be my bosses, the new students will likely be working under me.

So the fact that they are so accepting is realy quite huge.
It normalizes my behavior on my campus and in our industry.

So one person can make a huge difference.

I show up on the bus, I take two busses and a mall shuttle to get there and people see me.

I am out and full time arround my community and everywhere, so every time I get a slice of pizza, or make a shopping trip, I am making a difference to the people who see me. If it took some getting used to the first time they won't be so thrown back the second. and so on. And that effects those who come after me too.

So it is very important.
I think being seen is the most helpful and visable way to make an immidiate difference.
Also the most effective.

I think people are afraid, because they have filled their minds with what could happen.

I want to point out to people that 90% of that is in your head. And the other ten percent isn't as bad as we think it is going to be as Wing Walker once put it.

This is so true.

People realy do get over it.

The other thing that helps is to fit in normaly in natrual conversations.

I was on the mall shuttle the other day and this driver was realy new or bad or both and kept hitting the brakes hard and sending us all off our ballance.

People started to make jokes about it and one guy kept going on to those around him and since I was near I  added (in a humourous tone)"well, at least we know the breaks work!" this got a laugh out of several people and others nodded in the rediculousness of it all.

This kinda thing is important because it shows that we are normal people too.

Misery loves company and we are all being tossed arround by some driver on the mall bus shuttle.


Being out doesn't mean being visable like a silent statue.

It also means ingaging others like normal.

My thoughts.

Sara

[NicholeW.]

If someone can be in 'stealth' then I do not see any problems with him or her doing so. It does seem that for the guys it is never that much of an issue anyhow. They just do it and don't ask very many questions like this.

I have wondered about the differences in those approaches. Women seem more inclined to want stealth and to argue about whether or not it is a valuable approach. The women also seem more concerned about 'political' reasons pro and con for and against stealth.

I didn't go through the things I have in order to be a political person. I vote. I sometimes will talk politics -- in fact I just had a discussion this morning with a colleague about the presidential election and how we are both excited about the prospect of USA being without a bush in the oval office  after next January.

She and I both like Hilary and Barak. Discussed John Edwards and John McCain as well.

Ummm, we didn't discuss how the candidates feel about LTBG issues though. Nor would we I expect. She does know I am a lesbian, but that simply was not part of the discussion. Why would it be?

She did talk about her cold and fever. I talked about mine last week. She didn't mention whether or not she had had a hysterectomy. And I didn't discuss my medical history either.

Just two women chatting for an hour as neither of our clients managed to come for their appointments.

Why is that so very difficult for women who were formerly or are currently considered 'trans' to do?

If someone wants to be an advocate in a public fashion, I have no problem with that. That's them, their comfort. If I do not, why does it really matter?

Actions and their lack or perceived lack are just that: perceptions of the individual. Is there some difficulty in that that I simply fail to fathom?


Nichole

[Natasha]

I didn't go through the things I have in order to be a political person. I vote. I sometimes will talk politics --



If someone wants to be an advocate in a public fashion, I have no problem with that. That's them, their comfort. If I do not, why does it really matter?


Nichole

you didn't?  why not?  i want you to march the streets for me, i want you to tattoo the trans label on your forehead, i want you to tell the entire population you're ts & deal with the consequences!

you know what the problem is nichole?  that everybody wants you to do what they do! baloney! it isn't happening in this lifetime!

[Sarah]

Aww,  and none of us who are out or activists are going through that are we?

[elena]

While talking to my therapist he mentioned that the population of the US that is transgendered is possibly as high as 10%.  That may not seem like a large amount at first, but it is huge.  I do admit, if every transgendered person came out at once in a movement to demand civil liberties it would be quite a sight. 

[Sarah]

A famous feminist once said somthing that realy upset the status quo at the time: "Women have rights. The whole lot. All we have to do is take them."

I will repeat that statement as the same applys to us: Trans people have rights. The whole lot. All we have to do is take them.


We have rights. All of them. All we have to do is take them.

The only thing stopping us is us.

300 million people in the US and that is just counting registered citizens.
Ten percent of that is 30 million.

All we have to do is take them people.
That's it.

Sara

[NicholeW.]

you didn't?  why not?  i want you to march the streets for me, i want you to tattoo the trans label on your forehead, i want you to tell the entire population you're ts & deal with the consequences!

you know what the problem is nichole?  that everybody wants you to do what they do! baloney! it isn't happening in this lifetime!

Ya know, Tasha, I don't even think it's a problem, sweetie. Well, not for me. It's their problem, because you're right; it's not happening in this lifetime.

Nichole

----------------------------------------

Let me get this right. 10% that's a few magnitudes higher than even the most remarkable speculations of Lynn Conway.

There's almost as many trans-people in USA as there are African-Americans? 

I imagine that therapist should stick with therapy and leave statistics to the statisticians and economists.

As for Sarah's opine: And who will be leading all these T-people in this campaign? I can only imagine!!

Besides 10% and 52% are rather far apart as percentages. And even at that how many women embraced this anonymous feminist's platform and took to snatching power?

I truly do appreciate activists. For instance, it would be nice if Marti Abernathy were to have joined this forum and decided to weigh-in with some commentary about activism. I enjoy reading her ideas and commentaries. But see, I know something of her history. She's paid some dues in her life; and she's earned my respect, affection and admiration if not always my agreement.

Nichole


P.S. What if the issue is NOT about gender at all? Except for the 'transgendered.' What if, for transsexuals, the problem is about 'sex' -- a physical problem that has nothing to do with 'gender?' 

Could that be why Mr. Prince felt a need to destroy us? To make the world safe for CDs and TVs, gender-queers? Ya gotta wonder.

That would sorta take this entire thread into a kinda permanent 'moot' state wouldn't it?

Just a thought.

N~

[tinkerbell]

you didn't?  why not?  i want you to march the streets for me, i want you to tattoo the trans label on your forehead, i want you to tell the entire population you're ts & deal with the consequences!

you know what the problem is nichole?  that everybody wants you to do what they do! baloney! it isn't happening in this lifetime!

Ya know, Tasha, I don't even think it's a problem, sweetie. Well, not for me. It's their problem, because you're right; it's not happening in this lifetime.

Nichole

Ditto!    Oh boy, you girls made my night!  >    

tink

[Sarah]

LOL
You act like a leader is nessicary!

All that is needed is the will to act!
Individually!

I do it!
It's not that hard once you get over the initial fear.

[tinkerbell]

Oh I don't think "fear" is the word.  It's called "completion"...done, over, end, finish, finito!  When your transition is over, it is done with.  Your TS history becomes your past and you reach a sense of peace of mind and balance which you don't want to jeopardize for any reason.  At least that is my take on it!

tink

[NicholeW.]

LOL
You act like a leader is nessicary!

All that is needed is the will to act!
Individually!

I do it!
It's not that hard once you get over the initial fear.

No, Sarah, I don't think a leader is necessary at all. I don't doubt that some are hoping to be acclaimed "Leader" though.

As for 'fear?' It's nice you don't have it.

Just one question more, hon. You've been actively transitioning for how long?

The length of time is not meant to speak to what you say. It doesn't. You may well be right.  Rather just to see how long a drink of transitioning you've taken thus far.

N~

[Sarah]

I most certianly have it!

I wish you wouldn't put words in my mouth.

I do know how to use my will though.

Transition?

I am out an full time.

Why is that any of your business?

Sara

[NicholeW.]

Length of transition?

I don't know what a transition is quite frankly.

I am full time and out.

That was exactly the point.

N~

And an answer here, perhaps?

P.S. What if the issue is NOT about gender at all? Except for the 'transgendered.' What if, for transsexuals, the problem is about 'sex' -- a physical problem that has nothing to do with 'gender?' 


N~

[Sarah]

Uhh, you lost me entirely.

'Sex' and 'Gender' are not the same thing.
I am pretty sure everyone here knows that.

So what was your point?
How is that on topic?

Posted on: January 25, 2008, 08:09:26 PMSee, the thing of it is, I think what some people are doing is attempting to explain the actions of those who are stealth.

An "appologist" to use the classic litterary definition.

What they are not doing is addressing the points.

"why" people are stealth is not the topic of this thread.
"does it hurt us" is.
"Why" is not nessicarily relavant to whether the consequences of doing so are harmful or hurtful.

We are discussing the consequences, the Effect. Not the Cause.

There are no doubt very good reasons why some people go stealth, but nevertheless the consequences, good or bad still manifest. Regardless of the reasons.

Sara

[Natasha]

"why" people are stealth is not the topic of this thread.
"does it hurt us" is.
Sara

you should know by now that i'm as blunt as your own conscience, so i'll stay on topic.  i don't believe in "we" or "us", so

does it hurt us me to be in stealth?

absolutely not!  you wanted an honest answer?, you got it!

[Terra]

"why" people are stealth is not the topic of this thread.
"does it hurt us" is.
"Why" is not nessicarily relavant to whether the consequences of doing so are harmful or hurtful.

We are discussing the consequences, the Effect. Not the Cause.

But Sarah, the cause and the effect are somewhat the same. People wouldn't feel the need to be in stealth if they felt they could live normal lives. But the effect of this is continuing the cycle of people not knowing, nothing improving, and people feeling that they have to be stealthed to live in peace.

Does it hurt us? Yes. But it depends on who and where as to how much it does. Again, Wyoming isn't the friendliest state to the LGBT community. I talked to Guy Padgett, (hope I got the name right. oh, and he was the first open gay and youngest mayor in wyoming) and i'll say here what I told him. I feel that it is easier today to simply be gay or a lesbian then to be trans in this state. If it got out that I was trans, I really don't expect a happy ending. The mascot for my school is a cowboy, most of the men wear cowboy hats as everyday wear, and just about every car and truck in town has a gun rack. Simply put, I really wouldn't feel safe being open. I was prepared to deal with opposition when I went full time, to deal with hate and small minds. But the date came and went, and its now been two weeks with no trouble. (Trans related at least) I'm not sure if anyone really even noticed.

I understand that a lot of change would occur if we all came out, but then again, the effect it would have on individual lives could be significant. I'm out there interacting, and I let people in on the secret only if I feel I can trust them completely. I'm sure others here go by similar concepts. But after struggling to get where I am, its kind of a breather to be able to relax slightly and enjoy being a girl and myself. Coming out would put me back into that struggle.

I understand where you are coming from Sarah, and I respect you alot for having the courage to be out. But I think that the reasons people go into stealth are just as important as the reasons for being open.

[Keira]

The reason  people are stealth is NOT just because
they feel they'd be fired or whatever.
They want to be seen as trans anything,
how can this be so hard to understand for anybody.

Doesn't any of those self-serving big mouthed trans activist
who purport speaking for me and others like me,
muster an once of empathy
and understand that after 20 years of pain and feeling
different, I just want to be one of the girls.

Not carry a flag or be at the vangard or be accepted
benevolently as a third sex, just be one of the girls.

I can't believe the judgemental crap that's been
heaped upon us, the magistral condescension
felt from a select out TS, who use their
platform, not
just for our common good, but to
flatter their own ego.

WooPeeDoo for all those out people who
feel confident to be out. But, the rubbing
our face in it and the guilt trip's got to end.
Its not just here or today, its been going
on continuously for the last 15 years
I've been involved in the community.

[cindybc]

Hi,
I have been living as Cindy for going on 8 years now full time and I have also worked for the last 20 years as a social worker, and as Cindy for the last seven years. No stealth for this girl, I live openly. I don't shy away from anyone, and I will talk to people while looking them directly in the face. Well I am also quite adept with the humor which helps much in breaking the ice with folks, both men/women. Within the next couple weeks my partner and I are going to be starting up a support group for TSs here in the area where we live. Once we know where we will be meeting, I will notify you all of the time and place for anyone living in the Surrey BC area. I am really looking forward for the opening day. I ain't quite ready yet to stay at home in a rocking chair knitting sweaters.   

Cindy

[Rachael]

imo, steath is best.... afterall, you transition to be a girl or boy. not a inbetweeny... why settle?
R >

[Diane]

They way i see it, stealth  is the end of ones transition.  It is the completion of ones goal to living your life as your true self.