My goodness, it's all intriguing stuff that you'all brought up. My subjective point of view:
SPOUSE - I heard my ex bringing up some of the same issues with me and I feel for your hurt and disillusionment. You asked, "WHY must the body match the mind? So SOCIETY sees what the TS feels? It seems it all boils down to appearances." I can only answer for me. I transitioned because (1) I hated my appearance in the shower. It disgusted me (obviously, this has nothing to do with society). (2) The other reason I transitioned was because I felt more comfortable IN SOCIETY as a female. It wasn't based on a desire for breasts (I never have had an interest in them - they're just there), clothes, makeup, stereotypical "feminine" things. To tell you the truth, when I hear a commercial spouting "it makes me feel feminine" it makes me feel nauseous -- it's too cutesy for my taste.
You asked if society treated me as a female (by my wearing female clothing) would I be satisfied? I'd be 50% satisfied. Unfortunately, it doesn't get rid of problem (1) my repulsion of my previously male body.
You stated that "Natal women in general set the standards for femininity. Femininity is a CHARACTERISTIC of the female sex, not a definition of it." Yes and no -- The male society (as supremacists) also set the tone for what is stereotypically "feminine" behavior. In the 50's, for example, women were very subservient to "Father Knows Best." "Check with your father"...."Oh, you're so clever, dear." That kind of talk again turns my stomach. I've always been a liberated person, both male and female. These days, I feel that the ROLE society places men in is kind of a box. Staying a man would have kept me in that box. I enjoy a wider range of emotions, both happy and sad, both intellectual and silly. Is it fair to put men in a box like that? Of course not. When will they ask for liberation? So many don't realize they're in that box. Obviously women have had many problems breaking that "glass ceiling" to advance in companies. I see women as being more progressive than men as far as freedoms.
As to more "primitive" societies (who knows who is really more advanced?), the American Indian called people like us "two-spirits" and, like Jane said (about other primitive societies), considered us "gifted" with special vision and knowledge." If society treated me that way, again it would solve only 50% of the problem -- it wouldn't get rid of the hatred of my former body.
Spouse, you talked about how bulemics and regular women can have distorted views of their beauty and so opt for operations. I didn't do this to look more beautiful. My goal was like the goal of a lot of TS's: To look like an AVERAGE woman. You might want to talk to F2M's about their reasons for transition. It helped me feel more at peace with my decision to transition. Society doesn't go around criticizing them because of frivolous pretty appearance issues. It could be that the male is just considered wiser by society and thus shouldn't be questioned. Women often are portrayed by society as stereotypical blonde airheads. The fact that some women enjoy acting like silly blondes (like Marilyn Monroe's in "Diamonds Are A Girl's Best Friend") just reinforces that negative image. If we want to transition to be females, surely something must be wrong with us? It must be as trivial as the already beautiful wealthy Beverly Hills heiress wanting multiple cosmetic surgeries. It's more complicated than that.
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JANE - You mentioned that "the figure for the high success rate [of SRS] originated in the early days of SRS and were based on the number of patients who simply disappeared into the woodwork after SRS." Simply disappearing is not a valid poll. There are plenty of people I know who have lost their unemployment insurance because they STILL can't find work. Yet, the government insists that we have 4% unemployment. Only 4% are REGISTERED. The true statistics for both could be quite different.
You said, "Were I to live alone on a remote island, I would have taken an ax and hacked it off myself!" While I agree totally with this - I feel the same way - I sometimes wonder if (1) that island only had one inhabitant, me, and (2) I didn't know what women looked like, would I have wanted to grab that ax? Would this gender dysphoria have arisen in me? I doubt it because I wouldn't have known any better. Perhaps I might have felt a body-mind mismatch but wouldn't know why? Seemingly, "gender dysphoria" requires you to live in a society of both men and women -- by observing women as you grow up, you come to the realization that, inside, that woman acts, talks, emotes more like me. Why don't I look like her?
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HAZ - Your idea for a home for beginning TS's has crossed my mind, too. It is a natural human emotion to seek out people of your own kind. When I was in Montreal for my SRS, Dr. Menard had a house by a lake wherein we all stayed both before and after the operations. Sometimes, Menard would suggest that the scheduled patient come a few days early before the SRS. I did that and had the time of my life talking with people in my same boat. My fondest recollection was meeting F2M's for the first time. It, as I mentioned earlier, gave me peace to know that they were going in the opposite direction.
I was always a fan of the TV show, "Twilight Zone," especially those episodes wherein bodies and minds were mixed. I daydreamed of a future when F2M's and M2F's would simply trade brains rather than undergo today's primitive costly painful multi-year efforts to transition. Part of the angst for Spouse, I'm sure, is that it's such a long process. You don't know at what point you may get freaked out. I wonder how Spouse would feel if Lori, in the future, had a one brain-transition operation, and Lori walked out in a female body (rather than an altered male body). When Lori spoke and Spouse would HEAR her loved one's voice and heart, would she walk away so easily? How much of Spouse's angst is because the technology of transition is so primitive and it takes so darn long? I think acceptance for us would be better all around. Coworkers would see a NORMAL female body (not necessarily beautiful - just average) and HEAR the voice of their coworker. I can't imagine coworkers not gathering around and giving her a hug of congratulations. Yes, I too "have a dream."
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UMOP - You said, "Only when I was able to simulate having breasts myself did I realize how great it would be to have them for real." Like I said earlier, I was never into breasts. Neither as a man or a woman. They're just fat tissue. I know men consider them crazily -- there certainly have been enough jokes about that in films. I haven't discussed it with GG's but I have a feeling that they think like me: they're just body parts. I once saw a foreign film called "Claire's Knee" wherein the hero of the tale fantacized how wonderful it would be to touch Claire's knee. I only bring it up because any body part can be an object of infatuation. Just don't let that infatuation lead you down a dangerous road of transition because you think it will be soooo wonderful. After a few months of having them, you'll probably ignore them like me. A new car is exciting. An old car is transportation.
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KATE - You sound like me, correcting the often assumed presumption that we transition for clothes or acting feminine. To tell you the truth, as a "postie," I talk and act a heck of a lot like my former male self. Granted that I was never stereotypically "manly." But I wasn't and am not effeminate either. I act the way average women act. Some TS voice training people note that women often will end their sentences, going up in tone and in a questioning manner, like they're not sure. My ex pointed out that women news anchors talk in monotones to match their counterparts and it gives them a business-like demeanor. People take them seriously. Hearing that, I decided to just alter my pitch up a little and speak the way I speak. I don't NEED to speak in a stereotypically female manner because body language and tone do wonders.
There's another difference between myself and a lot of women: I hate women in stores describing EVERY garment as "cute." Surely educated women can come up with some other adjective? But I have my silly moments, too, and feel peace in that people smile rather than look at me strangely. The "context," as you say, makes my being me gender appropriate.
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JANE - I've always liked your definition of why you wanted to be a woman -- "Because I am." It's so simple and eloquent. As to people fighting us "because they have not the least idea what [being in the wrong body] feels like" -- It's probably like all minorities, nobody knows how it feels until they walk in our shoes. A black jury let football player/actor Simpson free because they knew what it felt like to be racially profiled and picked upon. White America was stunned...
And many or most in America are stunned about us, too. Looking at it from their point of view, it makes no sense.
Teri Anne
