Help needed.

[The_Little_Kid]

Ok so here's the thing. I kinda found out a month ago that I'm androgynous. Since then I've been reading a little and it crossed my mind that perhaps I'm a MTF rather, but I'm pretty sure I'm andro. But this has been unbelievably confusing, a couple of times I thought about this and brought my body into the equation I just got totally confused and have no idea how I can be male and andro/MTF at the same time. Especially considering that I'm rather athletic and big boned, and that I was raised as a girl is a girl and a boy is a boy period. There's more but I'll ask that later. I seriously don't know what I want accomplished with this post, but any advice, thoughts, etc would be highly appreciated.

[The_Little_Kid]

Well the therapist might be somewhat hard, but there's a very small chance that I might see one anyway, (I have some other problems) so I might bring up the topic.

Well I like my body (though I would have liked a female body just as much) I'm a somewhat active person and my body works well for that. I'm really not sure that I would be able to get it to be female anyway. (broad shoulders thick arms etc, and that's without exercise) But I don't really like my reproductive part. Don't really fit in with guys, I much prefer to hang out with girls, I prefer the way they talk and some of the things they talk about. Though on the other hand some of the things guys talk about is just as interesting. To be honest I don't really have any real clue, all my friends are female, (but I have like three friends so I guess it's a moot point) I know a couple of guys with whom I'm friendly. I don't know perhaps it's just because I really don't like things being done in a forceful way, everything should be done elegantly and softly, almost sensually. So perhaps I'm just confusing that with gender identity, but I'm pretty sure that I'm not "male". (gender wise)

[cindybc]

Yes there is an Androgyne forum if you just scroll down the list on the home page.

Cindy

[The_Little_Kid]

Yeah I'm not really unhappy with my body, it does what it's suppose to do. Though I am really unhappy about the stereotypes it forces on me, never mind the people saying that I shouldn't do this and this. There's people who say I physically can't do somethings in certain ways. (this is especially in the thinking department, they say guys can't think in certain ways)

I'm actually not so sure about doing something radical. But I would like to kinda sort this out a bit, and I'd also like to act more androgynous and perhaps dress more andro as well.

Well the way I figured it is you can basically be male female both or neither so there are a couple of choices.

[Calyx]

Hello Kid (the Little),

You are going to find out that your concept of yourself will
change as you explore your feelings and act upon them.

Try small things at first. Let your hair grow a bit and style
it a little differently. Let your nails grow some and have a
manicure. Try a different style shirt or pair of slacks. Try
a different cologne or even use a moisterizer on your face
or lip balm.

Nothing too obvious. Ask your female friends for suggestions.
They will be glad to advise you as to what is best for dry
skin or chapped lips.

Remember, take "baby steps".

If you try something and don't like it, set it aside and try
something else. Eventually, you will discover what is right
for you.

Therapy can be useful, but be careful when selecting a
therapist. Often they will string you along just to fill their
calendar or will want you to take drugs you do not really
need.

You might look for a support group in your area if you are
leaning towards gender blending or transitioning. There will
be someone you can talk to who has been through it all
before.

You are not alone in your confusion.

I've been looking for myself for over fifty years and am
still discovering new things. Some fit, some do not.

This forum is a great first step.

Calyx

[Jaimey]

I agree with everyone else on here.  The best thing you can do is to just be yourself.  If you don't mind my asking, how old are you?  I know that for kids in school, this sort of change can be really scary.  But I think that as long as you are being yourself and you aren't afraid of being yourself, no one is going to say anything.  Baby steps are the way to go.  That way you can sort of gauge how each change makes you feel.

I understand what you mean about your body doing what it's supposed to.  I'm female bodied and for me, since I like men and I want to have children, it's more practical that way.  Basically, what I did was sit down and consider all my options and the benefits/consequences of those options to find out what would work out best for me.  These sorts of changes definitely require a lot of reflection and consideration.

Just remember that we're all here for you and we've been where you are.  I hope you find your answers soon!

[NickSister]

Well the therapist might be somewhat hard, but there's a very small chance that I might see one anyway, (I have some other problems) so I might bring up the topic.

Well I like my body (though I would have liked a female body just as much) I'm a somewhat active person and my body works well for that. I'm really not sure that I would be able to get it to be female anyway. (broad shoulders thick arms etc, and that's without exercise) But I don't really like my reproductive part. Don't really fit in with guys, I much prefer to hang out with girls, I prefer the way they talk and some of the things they talk about. Though on the other hand some of the things guys talk about is just as interesting. To be honest I don't really have any real clue, all my friends are female, (but I have like three friends so I guess it's a moot point) I know a couple of guys with whom I'm friendly. I don't know perhaps it's just because I really don't like things being done in a forceful way, everything should be done elegantly and softly, almost sensually. So perhaps I'm just confusing that with gender identity, but I'm pretty sure that I'm not "male". (gender wise)

I kind of got confused too about my body. I did not hate it. Just as you say it does the job, is strong, attractive enough etc.. But the thing that gets me is it just does not feel right. Maybe this is the same for you, maybe not. I'm just saying that it is ok to like your body but feel that it does not quite fit you.

I agree with other people - take baby steps, find what works for you. There is no hurry in this, you are not missing out on anything by taking it slow. Enjoy what you do, enjoy the discoveries, experiment. You're going to have to put up with people that say things like "guys don't do that". All you can really say is "exactly".  If it wasn't for expectations we would all be a lot happier

[sd]

I also emphasize baby steps.
Small things can have a major impact on your psyche (trust me on this).

Just take it slow.

It took your whole life to get here, you really cannot expect to change overnight and you probably would not be comfortable with it anyhow. As you get more comfortable with yourself and understand yourself better you may be able to go farther faster (others can help there more than I can) but just start off slow. You may find you only need a few small things to make yourself happy.

[RebeccaFog]

Hi Kid,

   You'll be alright.  You're not the first and now you have people to talk with. 
   I feel what you're saying because it still describes me and I'm 2 or 3 times your age.

   Just take it easy.  Don't rush yourself and hang around here and see if you can get a feel for what fits you.



Rebis

[Seshatneferw]

Yes, like they've said, take it easy and slow, and do whatever feels right to you.

One thing I'd like to add is that the gender/sex thing is not just a single lump, but there are many aspects to it. It's entirely possible to have a male body with a female brain in it, and while that combination is usually seen in MtF transsexuals, sometimes it also mixes with an androgyne (social) gender identity. I'm not sure if that's you (and clearly you are not sure either), but don't worry. Wondering about that is all right -- and who knows, you might even figure it out eventually. 

Welcome.

  Nfr

[The_Little_Kid]

Sorry that I haven't replied here earlier, but I haven't been on for a while.

Thanks for all the replies every one, that's actually probably the best advice I've gotten so far from anyone.

Some kinda update type thingies. Well I talked to a T the other day, and well she just made everything worse. (the original reasons I was suppose to go wasn't for my gender issues, but the things that she did say about it didn't help any with my confusion it just kinda made it worse) I've kinda also started to seriously think that perhaps I'm MtF. Then a little later I think that perhaps I'm making all this up and I'm really just a "normal" guy, whatever that means. (which is my current thinking) The thing about my current body is I'm actually kinda afraid altering it would make me unable to do a lot of things. I don't even truly know if I really like it (though at the time of writing it was actually ok, but I haven't thought about it much by that time) although I also don't know whether I hate it. Ah well, I guess I'm just really confused, though I'm trying to keep an open mind and not kinda latch onto any one idea and not think about all the other possibilities.

Anyway I guess that's all I have to say today.

[sd]

Many of us went through the same confusion as you are, which is why we say do not rush things. You could end up doing something that will change the rest of your life in a bad way. Keep in mind, finding out what you are may only be the beginning of this journey, no reason to rush it.

In the meantime, you might want to take a look at some of the threads in this forum on clothing and style, they may give you some ideas on what you can do to feel more comfortable with yourself and not do anything permanent or stepping too far out of your comfort zone, this can be very therapeutic, but go slow. You do not want to freak anyone out, much less yourself.


I would ask your therapist if she has treated androgynes or Ts before, if not, you may want to find one who has. She may be fine for your other problem, but not this particular one. Both problems could even be related, but I am far from an expert on this. I would worry that she may not be able to properly help you. There are some pretty bad stories of androgynes going through transition and finding it was wrong for them, you need to be very sure before you do that. Right now, I would say you are not ready to make that decision.

[Jaimey]

Hmmm, I don't know if this will help but that confusion you're having is totally normal.  I would go from thinking I was ftm back to regular girl then to I don't know what the heck I am and then repeat the process.  One thing that probably exaggerates the confusion is just being a teenager.  The hormones and changes that go on in your body as a teenager do level out as you get older and things do start making more sense.  I was about 25 before I noticed a big difference, so you might have to wait a bit (though you have quite a head start on me...I was a few years older than you are before I realized that I might not be a girl after all...). 

I agree with sd.  You're therapist may not be able to help you with this since she isn't a gender therapist.  There is good news though!  Even though she might not have the answers, we've all been through what you're going through and we know what it's like, so feel free to come to us with anything!  Also, sd's suggestion about fashion is good too.  I don't know what kind of style you go for, but you might go to a hair stylist too for a more androgynous cut...razor cuts are the best for that.  Also simple jewelry...like a silver thumb ring or something.  Little changes can make a world of difference. 

Don't let yourself feel overwhelmed.  There are lots of people here who will listen and understand everything you're going through.  Ask us anything!

[NickSister]

Keep asking questions and keep searching. It will become clearer in time. try not to feel pressured to label yourself straight away - you don't lose anything by taking your time. Don't forget to take the time to do the things you like too, have fun. It is real easy to get buried under your confusion so make an effort to blow of some steam and clear your head.

Just a small piece of advice, be very careful about who you disclose your gender issues with.

[The_Little_Kid]

Thanks I think I'm going to try that. Not sure where or when I'll begin (though I have decided to grow my hair starting a couple of months ago, though unfortunately circumstances forced me to cut it somewhere in the middle between then and now) Thanks for all the advice, I guess I'll have to apply some of that before I'll really have more questions. (I'm kinda running out of questions here) But thanks for all the help, it's been of immeasurable value.

Yeah I've noticed that. The other day we where in the shops and my brother held some make-up (for my mother) and I teased him and asked if it was for him and he replied "No I'm luckily not that far down the drain". Moral of the story: don't tell him ever.

[Jaimey]

How did he say it?  'Cause I was thinking that his reaction could have been way worse.  But then again, you know him and we don't.  Are you two close?  I wouldn't tell him now by any means, but as you get older you might find that he will accept you.  It didn't sound that negative to me. 

Glad we could help!

Renate, I thought the same thing...

[The_Little_Kid]

I'd have gone with yes. It's not totally negative, but it was still in a joking situation. I'm pretty sure he would have a very different idea went it comes to me actually being, well different. We're not actually close at all. Well he knows about something else that we totally don't see eye to eye about, and even though he "accepts" it it's more like he just keeps his mouth shut and totally ignore it. He doesn't accept it at all.

[Jaimey]

Hmmm...how old is he?  He might be more accepting as he gets older.  A lot of people I was around as a kid have changed a lot.  I have a male cousin who is gay and very effeminate.  10 years ago, there might have been a problem with some of the men in our family, but now, everyone has totally accepted him.  I used to worry about him a lot, especially as he became more obvious.  So maybe give him some time. 

I wish I had better advice for you, but I only have one sibling and he's 12 years younger than me and I'm not very open with my family either. 

All I can say is don't spend too much time worrying about it.  I find that spending a lot of time focusing on worries or negative things is a lot of wasted time and it drains you of energy.  It's better to focus on positive things.  Good luck with making any changes that you decide on and let us know how they work out for you!!!

[The_Little_Kid]

He's twenty two if I remember correctly. I don't really know how he'll react to be honest. Things that might work in my favor is that most of my family is very closely bonded and they tend to be very protective. (at least in my immediate family, like my parents and siblings, though I'm kinda the odd one out in that regard as I'm kinda distant) Though the rest of my family might be a huge problem, for example my one uncle is kinda the stereotypical big hairy guy with huge beer belly very obnoxious racist not very tolerant of people and well yeah not very nice in my opinion. (actually a little more than not very nice but w/e)

Yeah I'll try not to worry, though I have to admit at the moment it's pretty much the only thing that I can really think about, so it kinda worries me more than I'd like to admit. (the gender problem thingy I mean) But yeah I'm going to try and not worry so much.

[Jaimey]

Though the rest of my family might be a huge problem, for example my one uncle is kinda the stereotypical big hairy guy with huge beer belly very obnoxious racist not very tolerant of people and well yeah not very nice in my opinion. (actually a little more than not very nice but w/e)

Are we related?  Your uncle could be my dad.  He's the only one who ever says anything about my cousin and he has a tattoo of the confederate flag on his arm (hey, dad, they lost the war you know...).  His dad's side of the family (my cousin is on the other side...too much divorce in that family) is very much how you described your uncle.  It disturbs me to no end that they are continuing to breed. 

Just stay positive as much as you can!  We're here for you!