Changing friendships

[Terra]

 Just got off the phone with one of my friends that i've known for the last 7 years or so. I've mentioned her frequently, and even asked her to marry me at one point which she turned down. She also stopped talking to me for a few months because 'God told her to'. I broke the ice on that one 3 months later. During the school year we don't talk much as both of us have to get schoolwork done, and thus usually we have to talk on the weekends, like tonight.

So with the fact we don't talk much, it is hardly a surprise that when she tells me she is getting married that it takes me some getting used to. Never meet the guy, but he seems nice enough to her. But it is becoming harder to get in touch with her because she always seems to be around him, and she takes any comment against their marriage personally. Did I mention that after 10 months of dating they are doing this? Or that the reason she can't wait longer is that it is harder to remain 'pure'? She is already acting like they were married!

I tried to joke that since she was in such a rush, that i'd considered buying them the karma sutra. I never would, she is to conservative to even consider the book. But this kind of joking is the stuff i've done with her for years. Along with a few jokes about how I could be a bridesmaid 'bodyguard' with my height, or how I couldn't be a bridesmaid because I don't look good in pink. (her favorite color)

But her reaction was to get mad, and almost hung up on me. Not because of the jokes themselves, but because she now considered them flirtatious. This took me by complete surprise, as I talk to everyone like that. I wasn't trying to flirt, just get a laugh or two. However she saw them as inappropriate as she was getting married, and only wanted that kind of stuff from her husband. But as I sit here, I wonder if it is because she is starting to see me as a girl, or if it is because she is getting ready to be married? Or was I just being a jerk?

I know I will have to learn new rules to interaction, but I never anticipated this sort of reaction. Has anyone else found that their friendships just suddenly changed? Even with those who know or knew what were doing?

[Jordan]

The way you describe it, I would say strange behavior for sure....

Are you gonna be a bridesmaid for her wedding???

[Autumn]

I think she's a crazy religious nut, my friend. God told her to stop talking to you, she doesn't believe in sex before marriage, etc. Religion is a void of reason in most people.

[Terra]

The way you describe it, I would say strange behavior for sure....

Are you gonna be a bridesmaid for her wedding???

No, i'm to far away to do that I guess.

I think she's a crazy religious nut, my friend. God told her to stop talking to you, she doesn't believe in sex before marriage, etc. Religion is a void of reason in most people.

She does have her moments, and she does accept me...sort of. Her biggest problem with me being trans is the dating problem. Problem to her at least.

I guess i'm just not used to people changing the rules like this. How am I supposed to respond to this?

[kristinrichann]

I dont mean to be intrusive but do you think that she might have a deeper feeling of not wanting to hurt you  in the aspects of her looking at the situation of your releationship being a lez situation   my so looked at us as being sisters and not that as lovers because she couldnt handel the situation of being lez and that was a personal prolbem of hers and mine I do not look at myself as being gay and to have sex with a woman would be a gay situation for me  but then with the changes that are happening I look at men as being straght because I am just that a woman even though I am in transition   sence we have been seing each others as sisters we have grown to a different leval in our relationship she sees the men she wants and writes the men she wants and I see and writ the men I want   the onething we have both come to is they can pick us up here but they are not allowed to park their shoes here we will park our shoes there

I have got to admit that we have a better relationship as sisters than we ever had as partners
sorry to but in
I hope that the two of you are able to come to a understanding with each other
I wish you both the best and have a good day
kristin

[Berliegh]

Old male friends are usually far worse..

[kristinrichann]

oh how true

[Robin_p]

Sounds like this friendship is painful.

So what is it you want from this relationship and is it really worth it?

Why not just walk away until she stops doing what she has to do.

[Terra]

Sounds like this friendship is painful.

So what is it you want from this relationship and is it really worth it?

Why not just walk away until she stops doing what she has to do.

What I want? I don't know. I did love her at one point, but made peace with the fact that this road destroyed that chance.

Maybe this is me hanging on to the last shreds of my past. She has always been my friend, always been there willing to listen. I would not be here if not for her, and I mean that. But though I can't love her like I wanted to, I could still be her friend. Gah, i'm starting to sound like a bad soap opera!

I guess I just don't want to lose her, guess i'm being selfish.

[SarahFaceDoom]

Yes reading your account my take on it is that you still have unresolved feelings for her that you haven't fully gotten past.  It seems like you're trying to straddle the line and be both her friend, and a spurned lover, and I think that's the cause for the discord.

Realize that her decision to get married is her own, and not yours.  Work on feeling happy for her, because it is a very important moment in her life.  She should feel your support.  She's probably got her own insecurities about the marriage about you proposing to her, so anytime you joke around those insecurities, you are going to cause pain to one or both of you.

Ideally you need to just be more supportive of her as a girl friend.  But if your own romantic attachments are to strong to do that effectively, then you need to just give her and yourself space.  Cherish whatever you had with her, and realize that that time has passed and move on with your life.  There's nothing to be gained by fixating on it overly.

How did you guys get past the marriage proposal, if you don't mind me asking?  That would seem like a big hurdle to cross to get to friendship blvd.  Because not only were your feelings strong enough about her that you wanted to marry her.  But you in turn were turned down by her.  Did you transition before or after proposing to her?  How long of a time span was this?  That's a lot of things for any relationship to process.  Let alone thrive.  So just try to be understanding of her and make sure you aren't impeeding your own ability to satiate your needs.

[Berliegh]

oh how true

Yes, they all gradually fade away one by one....and you never hear from them anymore....I've only got one good male friend from the past who keeps the faith...

[Sarah]

Crazy people have a habit of making those arround them crazy as well.
Distance can be a good thing.

Sara

[Tanya1]

oh how true

Yes, they all gradually fade away one by one....and you never hear from them anymore....I've only got one good male friend from the past who keeps the faith...

so true even though I haven't revealed that I'm transitioning

[Terra]

How did you guys get past the marriage proposal, if you don't mind me asking?  That would seem like a big hurdle to cross to get to friendship blvd.  Because not only were your feelings strong enough about her that you wanted to marry her.  But you in turn were turned down by her.  Did you transition before or after proposing to her?  How long of a time span was this?

That happened more or less over the last few years. We subtly (or not so subtly) talked about it since I joined the Navy. I remember being in A-school learning to be a corpsman when these talks turned to more serious topics. Like, what OUR children would be like and where WE would live. They never truly got a chance to go anywhere, as one year later i'm being discharged for being transgender. She was one of the first people I told, and she accepted it without to much trouble. She said she didn't understand, but I was still her friend.

Over the next year we would talk, she helped me to hang onto hope, I was to depressed to hold much. At my worst I asked her, "if I stopped this tomorrow, would you be willing to marry me?" Not my proudest moment, and she told me she would have to think about it. I called her a day later and apologized, for if we did get married over this, it wouldn't be fair or right. We just kinda moved on from there. I would joke about coming over to get her so we could go bar hopping together and I could find her a boyfriend.

She asked me many times about how I felt about her over the last few years. I told her the truth. I loved her, but I wanted her to be happy. I couldn't ask her to set aside her beliefs for me, I couldn't ask her to be a lesbian. But I loved her unlike I had any other person in my life, and I thought it a cruel joke that I would never be able to court her. But she deserved to have her family like she always wanted, and most of all she deserved to be with someone who loved and respected her. While I could do those things, I could never be her man.

Writing this I guess I can see I probably am still quite in love with her. I'm not sure if I could ever not love her. I want so much to be her friend, but I guess these feelings are getting in the way. Or maybe the feeling is a bit mutual, not to sure on that. Either way, I want to keep her at least as a friend.

[Berliegh]

oh how true

Yes, they all gradually fade away one by one....and you never hear from them anymore....I've only got one good male friend from the past who keeps the faith...

so true even though I haven't revealed that I'm transitioning

So how does the topic relate to you then Tanya? I was talking about those of us who have tranbsitioned or are in the process..

[Tanya1]

oh how true

Yes, they all gradually fade away one by one....and you never hear from them anymore....I've only got one good male friend from the past who keeps the faith...

so true even though I haven't revealed that I'm transitioning

So how does the topic relate to you then Tanya? I was talking about those of us who have tranbsitioned or are in the process..

I am in process of transition. i had lots of guy friends but lots of them weren't "real" or weren't long-term buddies.

Didn't have many girl friends but had some.

I know either way I will lose friendships. If I do then it wasn't meant to be to begin with! My company with people will change for the good.

About intimate relationships, well I really am not ready for a relationship becuase of my GID issues and some other family problems. But If I do have one right now, I now that most girls will find something different in me.

HRT has changed my mindset quite a bit, I don't have desires to french kiss like I used too or have sex...In fact I starting to find a little attraction with men. It's hard to explain but sometimes I want men and sometimes women.

I'm also a virgin so things can be quite hard if I was too get in a relationship. Maybe bi women will accept me but that's just a stereotype? I know that it will be hard for any hetero women to understand me. If I come off as presenting as male, they would most defiently see something awkard- maybe think I'm gay or their's some problem.

And well once my transition is complete and I'm living FT as a women- they will see me more as a friend and wouldn't think about having a relationship with me.

Men I like somewhat after HRT a little but I don't want to risk getting beat up- even after SRS I prolly won't want to risk having a relationship with them.

And well marriage will be tough for me- Women will think of me as a friend or sister-maybe a lesbian or bi may accept me- Men may possibly like me or be interested BUT it will be very hard to explain my past to them and I also don't want to get beat up.(I heard many TS's get beat up over this stuff)

It can really be tough to have someone you like turn down their face to you even after many yrs of knowing them.

In conclusion, it's hard for me to find someone who will understand me but I know someone is out their. In fact this one girl in school likes me but I don't want to get involved because of transition and some family problems. Also because in the end she will find out and likely break up with me.

-that's how it relates to me if you really wanted to ask...

[SarahFaceDoom]

How did you guys get past the marriage proposal, if you don't mind me asking?  That would seem like a big hurdle to cross to get to friendship blvd.  Because not only were your feelings strong enough about her that you wanted to marry her.  But you in turn were turned down by her.  Did you transition before or after proposing to her?  How long of a time span was this?

That happened more or less over the last few years. We subtly (or not so subtly) talked about it since I joined the Navy. I remember being in A-school learning to be a corpsman when these talks turned to more serious topics. Like, what OUR children would be like and where WE would live. They never truly got a chance to go anywhere, as one year later i'm being discharged for being transgender. She was one of the first people I told, and she accepted it without to much trouble. She said she didn't understand, but I was still her friend.

Over the next year we would talk, she helped me to hang onto hope, I was to depressed to hold much. At my worst I asked her, "if I stopped this tomorrow, would you be willing to marry me?" Not my proudest moment, and she told me she would have to think about it. I called her a day later and apologized, for if we did get married over this, it wouldn't be fair or right. We just kinda moved on from there. I would joke about coming over to get her so we could go bar hopping together and I could find her a boyfriend.

She asked me many times about how I felt about her over the last few years. I told her the truth. I loved her, but I wanted her to be happy. I couldn't ask her to set aside her beliefs for me, I couldn't ask her to be a lesbian. But I loved her unlike I had any other person in my life, and I thought it a cruel joke that I would never be able to court her. But she deserved to have her family like she always wanted, and most of all she deserved to be with someone who loved and respected her. While I could do those things, I could never be her man.

Writing this I guess I can see I probably am still quite in love with her. I'm not sure if I could ever not love her. I want so much to be her friend, but I guess these feelings are getting in the way. Or maybe the feeling is a bit mutual, not to sure on that. Either way, I want to keep her at least as a friend.

I wouldn't recommend trying to turn your relationship with her into a friendship.  It sounds like your feelings for her are really really strong.  It's nice that she helped you through some tough times.  But there's no point in torturing yourself over something that isn't going to happen.  There are other people out there to be friends with who you won't have the emotional baggage with.  And there are other lovers out there who will accept you on your own terms.

I think a lot of the value you place in her you might find to be tied more into your own fears and insecurities. 

I dunno.  I had a friend like that once.  And honestly I've been a lot happier since moving on.

[kristinrichann]

as I said  me and my SO  have come to a understanding that we are sisters and best of friends  we have been having a better relationship sence we became friends  and she has seen how people that said that they were my friends have been disipering from my live   much as I have agreed with another post here   that is a hard enough subject by its self   it is durring these times you will find out who realy is your friend and not  do not base your life on these people   if you do you will be denying your self again and this is noty good for your health   rember it is not your fault that you were born like this  it is just like my son who has sever medical prolbems that he was born with I usto blame myself for this when I was shown that it is just a freek of nature that it happened   look at your self as the lucky one   you get to experience the best of both worlds  not every one is this lucky  keep the glass as half full  not as half empty  always think positive  get rid of the negitive  you dont need it
and as someone else said are you shure that there isnt something else that you are trying to hold on to
if you love something sometimes you half to let it go
I want to wish you the best

[JenniferMarie]

Sometimes friendships just get ruined because of things, Some... most, beyond our control.

Hopefully something clicks between you and your friend, and you are able to resume your friendship.

[kristinrichann]

Jennifer
I feel sorry for your lost  it seams he does  not understand what the prosess is about  and all the hell that some of us go through in our lives   I have had my own losses in my time so I can understand
I hope that your spirits are high as they can be for this situation  and it does sound like you have found a way to continue this for you   this is actualy why I am doing this in my life   for once and some consider it selfish I am thinking what is best for me that is why I saught out the proper counsler to help me come to terms with my self
kristin