14-year-old faces murder charge

[Natasha]

14-year-old faces murder charge

http://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2008/feb/15/14-year-old-faces-murder-charge/
02/15/2008

Three weeks after his 14th birthday, the teen suspect in a deadly classroom shooting made his first court appearance Thursday as officials announced he has been charged with first-degree murder and committing a hate crime.

[Jordan]

Little prick bigot... sorry that kind of news makes me angry

[MeghanAndrews]

This is really sad. Who knows what details will emerge, but we've got a murdered fourteen year old who got sot by a classmate. Just such a tragedy. I can't begin to imagine how this would make a parent feel, on both sides. Just an absolute tragedy.

[Sheila]

I wonder who influenced that 14 year old. What are his parents like? How did he get to that point where he had to shoot another classmate because of the way he was? It's a tragedy and it hurt a lot of people.
It was like that blogger, Laer, who basically said he got what he was asking for.
Sheila

[Purple Pimp]

Thank Goodness.  Get that boy away from general society, we've got enough psychopaths on our hands as it is (mainly concentrated at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. at the moment).

Lia

[Sarah]

This is terrible.
They are taking one tragedy and making it into another.
Have you seen American History X?
Just because someone is a bigot now, and does a horrible thing, doesn't mean they are doomed for the rest of their life.
This kid could change.
They should not be charging him as an adult.
That is terrible.
He is a child.
He could spend life in prison for somthing he has done as a kid.

They don't care about justice, they care about vengance.

This is rediculous.

In 20 years or less this kid could easily learn the error of his ways, be easily remoresfull and want to help the world and change things.
There is no reason to damn him for one mistake.
This is an oppurtunity to help him learn and others arround him.

Young teenagers are not mature adults.
They are kids, going through an already traumatic time under the influence of all sorts of forces including hormones, family preasures, world preasures, etc.
Many kill themselves.

This is rediculous to be treating this like an adult case.

That's so mean to be taking this kids life away for one mistake.
Because that's what they are doing.
He will be institutionalized for the rest of his life.
So that's two murders that may be comited.

What a rediculous waste.
I hope they do the right thing.

Sara

[Jordan]

I see your point Sarah, but if you were the judge what sentence would you empose.

Theraphy?? 10 years in prison, 20 years in prison???

How does one decide this?

He may have been immature and unknowing of his ways, but he MURDERED for Hate!!

Regardless of awareness of his situation, I am a firm believer in a ARM for a ARM, a LEG for a LEG, A LIFE FOR A LIFE...

And for every murder, there should be two IMO...

I know thats harsh  I respect your opinion though... And love your belief of the goodness that people are capable of, but in this young man I do not see it... And even if it is there it should have no say in the world...

[Natasha]

lock him up for life.  that should be more than enough.  and let's lock the parents up too while we are at it.

[Purple Pimp]

They don't care about justice, they care about vengeance.

Maybe so... our justice system links the two together exquisitely.

Still, a 14-year-old murdering someone?  There are no 14-year-olds who do not know the difference between right and wrong.  This could have been any one of us.  I came out as gay at 13, a very effeminate kid, and this could have very easily been my fate.  I was lucky; most of my torture was psychological rather than physical.  Such a person must be separated from society; maybe thirty years from now, he'll make parole and be able to rejoin the real world.  Four years is not enough.

Lia

[buttercup]

I wonder who influenced that 14 year old. What are his parents like? How did he get to that point where he had to shoot another classmate because of the way he was? It's a tragedy and it hurt a lot of people.
It was like that blogger, Laer, who basically said he got what he was asking for.
Sheila

I agree Sheila, if this boy comes from a home where he is taught to hate and despise differences in others, his parents must be mighty proud of him for acting on those impulses. 
These parents fill their kids head with so much hatred its sickening, and unfortunately, kids will always act upon those feelings without thinking of the consequences.
My heart is saddened that poor Larry didn't have a chance at life, it was snuffed out by a young man full of pure hatred!  Yes, 14 is young to go to jail, but 14 is also too young to die.
I'm sorry but I don't think this boy will repent for what he has done, the hatred would be deep within him, and doing time for something he thought was justified will only make him angrier! 

[Sarah]

I see your point Sarah, but if you were the judge what sentence would you empose.

Theraphy?? 10 years in prison, 20 years in prison???

How does one decide this?

He may have been immature and unknowing of his ways, but he MURDERED for Hate!!

Regardless of awareness of his situation, I am a firm believer in a ARM for a ARM, a LEG for a LEG, A LIFE FOR A LIFE...

And for every murder, there should be two IMO...

I know thats harsh  I respect your opinion though... And love your belief of the goodness that people are capable of, but in this young man I do not see it... And even if it is there it should have no say in the world...

It would depend on whether they were remorseful and willing to do somthing aobut themselves and to make changes.
If they were realy contrite and remorseful at some point, that would be enough.

Check in every so often.
Not four years, but no more than 20 for sure.
20 years is a life sentance in Canada.

In 20 years anyone can change.

We are too much about judging others and locking up our people for making a mistake.
This kid is human.
A human being with human feelings.
Feelings including fear, anger, sorrow, lonelyness. dispair.

These things he may have ignored of his peer when he chose to take their life, but that does not make him a demon.
he is a human being.

We send soldiers to war to do the exact same thing.
They do it out of ignorance also and for the profits of oil companies.
We don't lock them up forever.
To act like killing someone is this unforgivable sin is just not true.
People change.
Should all combat soldiers, war veterans be executed?
Some of them did kill in cold blood.
What of them?

There are worse things than dying, and living one's life in a cage has to be one of them.
What this kid needs is education.

Some loss of freedom, and a visit arround the world to open his eyes.
Hey, maybe send him in the infanty, let him be shot at for a while, let him see what it feels like.

There are other ways to deal with this than send him to prison.

It's also realy expensive.
It costs more to keep an inmate housed for a year than to send them to college.
Do you want to pay for this kid out of your taxes for the rest of his life?
Shouldn't he have the chance to be productive at some point and make a difference?
Even the guy who started the Crips changed his ways, and spent the last years of his life educating kids on why not to join a gang.
Executing him prevented a helpful person from being helpful.
Lots of people have changed thier ways after doing terrible things.
MAny went on to live the life of activists for the rest of their life as an example.

Just because this kid is the way he is now, doesn't mean he will be that way even next year.

I have seen so many people change so much, I can't belive He wouln't too if he had the willingness to do so. It's quite probable
What happended was a terrible tragedy but that doesn't mean I forget that he too is human.

People are people.
They don't stop being that because they make a mistake.

Posted on: February 16, 2008, 12:52:18 AM

They don't care about justice, they care about vengeance.

Maybe so... our justice system links the two together exquisitely.

Still, a 14-year-old murdering someone?  There are no 14-year-olds who do not know the difference between right and wrong. 

Lia

Are you so sure?
I was a lot more confused at that age.
I did not have nearly the wisdom or experience to cut through the confusion back then.
Not at that age.

I don't get it right 100% of the time now.
I get confused just like anyone else.
Are you saying that you always, everytime, know exactly what the right course of action is, in any given situation? And then do it?

I have that sense like everyone else, but we all get it wrong occasionaly.
Some more than others. Teenagers especially.

I'm just saying we shouldn't damn this kid for being a human being.

[Jordan]

20 years from he will still have commited this act, he may be another person then, but that fact will always remain..

Personally i have always believed in a eye for a eye...

I think he should be shot... Cheaper, Faster, and Rightful..

If I murdered someone, on premeditation...I would expect to have the same done back to me, period...

People need examples so they can learn, and my opinion is put this kids head on a stake in the middle of the city, make a poster out of it, and put one in every classroom...

Sorry Sarah, i lack the compasion you have for human beings....

[Sarah]

20 years from he will still have commited this act, he may be another person then, but that fact will always remain..

Personally i have always believed in a eye for a eye...

I think he should be shot... Cheaper, Faster, and Rightful..

If I murdered someone, on premeditation...I would expect to have the same done back to me, period...

People need examples so they can learn, and my opinion is put this kids head on a stake in the middle of the city, make a poster out of it, and put one in every classroom...

Sorry Sarah, i lack the compasion you have for human beings....

Would you do the shooting?

[tekla]

So much for the theory that more TG tolerant, or feminist-based society would be more, uh, compassionate. 

Of course had this person killed some 14 year old in Iraq by splattering his brains all over some wall in Baghdad we would give him a medal and a promotion.

[Jordan]

LOL, haha ya I definitely should not be dictator thats for sure. haha LOL

No I wont pull the trigger, since the old let he who is without sin cast the first stone implication you are trying to bring forth.

BUT humans as a whole society, have the power to pull the trigger, not a single one of us do, but the whole of us do, I think thats the idea behind it anyways isnt it???

Also Do not underestimate War as being trivial, you know nothing of war with a words such as that, it is the reason you are here today, it is the reason we have this country to live in, you can say all you want that the war was just for OIL, and whether its true or not, you arent living 50 years from now, when the true reprocussions of the war will come out.

the soldiers that fight in the war are not murderers, the are soldiers fighting for YOU, and your neighboor, and this KID who decided premeditated to Kill cause he didnt like the little gay kid in his class.

When i was 8 I stole a piece of gum from a seven eleven, I knew it was wrong when I did it, but I did it anyways.

How did I know it was wrong?? I just did, it is something born inside all of us. morality is inate.

[Sarah]

Someone once asked Ghandi "how do you change the world?"
He said "Be, the change you want to see"
India got it's independance through non-violent means.
Widespread use of non-violent civil disobediance.
They simply refused to obey British law
An entire country. Peaceful. Independance.
There is more than one way to eat an orange.

Have you seen Gunner Pallace?
I have friends of mine in Iraq.
They don't want to be there.
They are fighting becuase they have to, not because they want to.
They themselves are demoralized because this war is about oil and resources.
They know it, and say so.
They generals say so.

The Iraqis were no threat to us.
They did not have any WMD's
The UN and our own intelligence agency's have confirmed this.
Sadam had nothing to do with Al Quaeda, or 9/11.
Our intellegence agency's have confirmed this too.
So why are we there?
It is one of the worlds largest remaining oil reserves,
And oil is running out.
We consume more oil than any other country. Arround 90% of the worlds yearly oil exports are consumed by us.
Congress and the US senate have both confirmed that we are there for oil.

To invade another country, and bomb it to bits for thier resources is no better than what hitler did.
They had functional hospitals, universities, police deptments, fire departments, schools, jobs and relative saftey on  a daily basis.
Now they have none of these things, and those that are there are a crippled state of wha they once were.
Over 100,000 innocent Iraqi civilians (not soldiers) have been killed in the crossfire.
That is our doing.
Arround 8,000 American soldiers and contractors have been killed.

The sucide rate for returning combat soldiers is arround 30 percent.



More Vietnam veterans have commited suicide since the Vietnam War than those who were actually killed in it.

War destroys lives.
On all sides.
There is very little good that comes of it. Unless you are an Energy company executive.

Sara

[Jordan]

Very little comes of war???

your right, things are able to stay the same, were you around for WW1, WW2, were you there when pearl harbor was bombed??

didnt think so, your opinion of war is soley based on what you have seen.

The world isnt as safe as it seems, it is much more fragile of a place than you think..

Also I hope you know we dont go and STEAL the oil, we set iraq up in the world economy, to SELL its oil.

withing ten years Iraqs dinar will have a higher value than the British Pound.

But people love to make it sound like we are thiefs, when they will get top dollar for it, and also at the same time be liberated from the harsh constraints that were placed on the people of that country, be able to grow economically, and become for the first time be a country of growth and freedom.

also you say you have friends in Iraq that say they dont want to be there, BUT i must have missed the DRAFT, cause i thought they did it cause they wanted too?

If your gonna say they needed the money, thats bullcrap, cause they could have accomplished the same things working at Mcdonalds here...

[Sarah]

Things change Mara.
I was going to join the army too once.
I decided not to at the last minute.
A lot of my friends joned and later regretted it deeply.

Iraq was selling oil to the world market anyway.
My family is in the oil business.

They were selling it to whomever they felt like.(and as a soveigrn country they had the right to do so)
And at whatever rate they felt like. The royalties went back into the Iraqi economy.
Now US companies (and some British) have the rights to those fields, not the Iraqi government.
WE say who they can sell it to and who they cannot.
And those pipelines and fields that are now owned by US companies are now protected by US soldiers.
Who are shot at constantly.

As one U.S. soldier said "they(the Iraqi's) don't want us here, and we don't want to be here".
And we have created a backdoor draft; it's called stoploss. You might want to see the documentary movie about it. It's in theatres now, or at least it was.
Soldiers now can be recalled at any time, even after they have been discharged.
And they do it on a regular basis. Many soldiers have been killed after thier term of service has already expired.

Rather than talk to me about this, I would suggest talking to an actual soldier who has returned from Iraq.
They can speak for themselves.

Sara

[tekla]

Pretty much the people of Iraq are not making money from thier oil, huge mulit-national oil companies are - and not yet at that, they are not shipping squat.  And I think we had to fight WWII, but only because we were in WWI and agreed to a harsh and vindictive peace treaty that all but insured a second go round.  The US getting involved in WWI might well have been the worst foreign policy mistake we made till recently. 

Still, killing people to show that killing people is wrong, seems not all that bright.  And an eye for a eye is bible junk, not American law.

and become for the first time be a country of growth and freedom - does that seem to be coming on anytime soon?  Do they even want a country?  Seems like they want to go back to the old system and not the British imposed mandate.

It seems like your version of law and justice does have a lot more to do with Shria Law then our notions of justice, rehabilitation and the like.

[Jordan]

Sadams plan was simple, sell very little oil to keep the country going, and not to the US or UK or allies.


Then when the Earth is in a huge OIL loss, capitalize on it and charge a ridiculous amount for it.

It was simple, effective and structured plan with that I saw nothing wrong with it, BUT

he repressed the people of the current country, made them suffer, and denied them rights, after all it is the peoples oil, not his.

He was a dictator, remember? So he said its mine, basically though he was thinking long term, not short term.

And it has been quoted that he planned for many things with the Oil, many things that would be violent, and against the rights of others.

Sadam was not a good man, he had a horrible soul, and i believe that if the whole war accomplished just taking him out of power, then it was all worth it...