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Life on other planets...

Started by lady amarant, February 18, 2008, 05:09:07 AM

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lady amarant

A new article at NatGeo today speculates about life or its absence on Mars, both present and past, and with the recent discovery of a dwarf version of our own solar system (some time last week), the prospects of finding planets that can support carbon-based life like us gets more and more realistic.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/02/080217-mars-life.html

So, is there or isn't there, and what makes you say that?
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Chaunte

Any life we find will probably be very simple. 

The following opinion is based on a sample size of 1 - our Earth.  It also includes bits that I learned from reading Rare Earth.  This book expands the equations used by Carl Sagan, et. al, in the 1960's that talk about life on other worlds.

The bottom line is, using these equations and being optimistic with the assumptions, I came up with about 2 million worlds in our galaxy that may have complex life.  Being very pessimistic, I came up with just under 200.  There are approximately 500 billion stars in our galaxy.  Poor odds no matter how you look at it.

I think we will find space to be very lonely...

Chaunte

+++

I wish the galaxy was like that in Star Trek or Star Wars - a new civilazation to be found in just about every star system.  However, I have serious reservations.

We have found traces and microfossils of primitive life.  These bits of evidence go back about 3.7 billion years - right after the Great Bombardment that scared both the Earth and Moon. 

We didn't have a free oxygen atmosphere until about a billion years ago.  That gives us about 22% of Earth's history with a breathable atmosphere.

Sexual reproduction began about 700 million years ago.

And the Pharazoic, our present Eon which includes fossils with hard-parts (shells & bones) didn't start until 544 million years ago.

That makes our planet pretty devoid of life for about 88.2% of Earth's history, assuming a planetary age of 4.6 billion years.

Let's add technology into the calculation.

Our branch off of the evolutionary tree goes back approximately 1.6 million years.  That would be 0.034% of Earth's history.  (I know that we can go further back, but this branch is a direct lead to us - Homosapien Sapien.)

Our Western Civilization can be traced back about 8000 years, really starting with the flooding and creation of the Black Sea about 5600 BC.  That is about 0.00017% of Earth's geologic history.  (In Search of Noah's Flood - by Pitman & Ryan)

Lastly - the technology to hear signals from another world has only been around since the early 1960's.  That's approximately 0.6% of Western Civilization's history & 0.000001% of Earth's geologic history.

Given all this, and humanity's propensity for building the bigger & better bomb, is a a technologically advanced civilization doomed from the start?  To steal a line from the remake of the movie On The Beach, "It took humanity four and a half billion years to unlock the secrets of the universe.  And what do we do with it?  We blow ourselves up!"
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Alison

I'd say yes.. just by the laws of probability... the universe is -so big-  that Earth can't possibly be the only planet with life.
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tinkerbell

In the movie Contact, the dad says to young Ellie "if there were no life up there, it'd be a lot of waste of sky"

I didn't want to believe this before, but it does make sense.  Why should we be the "lucky" ones to be the only intelligent species in the entire universe?

tink :icon_chick:
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tekla

I'm sure the universe is far more complex than we can even imagine.  More likely beyond what we can imagine.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Chaunte

Quote from: Alison on February 18, 2008, 05:15:04 PM
I'd say yes.. just by the laws of probability... the universe is -so big-  that Earth can't possibly be the only planet with life.

Life? - yes.

Multicelled life beyond a hydra? - not as much.

Intelligent life with technology? - much more rare

Quote from: Tink on February 18, 2008, 06:43:41 PM
In the movie Contact, the dad says to young Ellie "if there were no life up there, it'd be a lot of waste of sky"

I didn't want to believe this before, but it does make sense.  Why should we be the "lucky" ones to be the only intelligent species in the entire universe?

tink :icon_chick:

I'm not saying that we are the only ones out there.  But we may have to look for a while...

Chaunte
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tekla

Intelligent life is hard enough to find on this planet.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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drkprincess

Quote from: tekla on February 18, 2008, 11:06:15 PM
Intelligent life is hard enough to find on this planet.

Lmao, I agree with you there :-P

As for life on other planets, there is sure to be life out there somewhere. But its so far away we may never reach it unless we can colonize other planets to generate life, then maybe in a few hundred trillion years. At least according to Einstein we can not travel faster then the speed of light, and even at this speed we can not reach the next star within our lifetime. Ofcourse people thought we couldn't go faster then the speed of sound either. There is just so much we don't know, and we will likely be long gone from this world before we can travel to other stars. But who knows. I had a dream once that we came from Mars, but the planet was dying because it was struck by what is now its moon, well atleast by one of them... so then we came to earth. But the environment on the earth was different and many died and we lost our technology. I have weird dreams LOL

~Rachel~

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lady amarant

Quote from: drkprincess on February 19, 2008, 02:52:36 AM
I had a dream once that we came from Mars, but the planet was dying because it was struck by what is now its moon, well atleast by one of them... so then we came to earth. But the environment on the earth was different and many died and we lost our technology. I have weird dreams LOL

As it happens, that's rather a strongly contended theory in some (notably less mainstream :icon_suspicious: ) circles - Mars was definitely struck by something HUGE at some point in its past, possibly fairly recently, as evidenced by the striking difference between the northern and southern hemispheres - the North is notably newer, plains flattened by lava flows, while the South consists of highlands and canyons and stuff that indicate a much older geography. The theory is that Mars was at one time struck by a huge meteor or something that tore the northern crust away, leaving the mantle exposed to solidify into a new layer.

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drkprincess

This webpage has a pretty interesting picture on it
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/lect/mars/moons.html

There is no doubt that mars has been struck, as with every other planet in the solar system, but it does make you wonder what impact it had on the planet, and what could of been there and what is not there now. I wouldn't mind going there to find out :-D

~Rachel~
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lady amarant

Quote from: drkprincess on February 19, 2008, 04:46:12 AM
I wouldn't mind going there to find out :-D

~Rachel~

Dibs on the first trip! Going to Mars is one of my biggest dreams.
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drkprincess



Dibs on the first trip! Going to Mars is one of my biggest dreams.
[/quote]

Me and you both, I cant imagine the view... I would love to see it. I have always been the exploring type. I love to see new places, as a kid I would go out and just pick a direction and take off. We need more then one person to go to Mars so lets both go :-D

~Rachel~

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lady amarant

Quote from: drkprincess on February 19, 2008, 05:10:24 AM
Me and you both, I cant imagine the view... I would love to see it. I have always been the exploring type. I love to see new places, as a kid I would go out and just pick a direction and take off. We need more then one person to go to Mars so lets both go :-D

~Rachel~

Cool beans. But I get to drive.  :P


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drkprincess

As long as you don't crash into the moon on the way out or put it in reverse and run into Venus I am ok with it. Besides... I am like a puppy I want to look out the window :-D

~Rachel~

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lady amarant

Quote from: drkprincess on February 19, 2008, 05:34:56 AM
As long as you don't crash into the moon on the way out or put it in reverse and run into Venus I am ok with it. Besides... I am like a puppy I want to look out the window :-D

~Rachel~

LOL! Either detour might be interesting. I can just imagine fire-breathing dragons evolving under those methane clouds on Venus...

And now I am getting silly.
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drkprincess

Maybe our ancestors have been to Venus and thats where we get the legends of Dragons from. Hmmm... we could just start forming our own theories, this is all starting to make sense LoL

~Rachel~

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tekla

The question of if there is life in other places in the universe is different from the issue of our being able to reach it.  One is probability, the other an issue of  technology.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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drkprincess

Well I did have this idea of shooting people out of cannons 30 miles long but NASA didn't like it hehe

~Rachel~

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tekla

Funny, I have the same idea, but I never ran it past NASA, I want it to be a surprise to those I chose to do it.  BTW, no net.
FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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drkprincess

LoL, that sounds like even more fun... I will help set it up and look for victims I mean volunteers LoL
*yes I know I am looney*

~Rachel~
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