OBAMA INVOKES SERMON ON THE MOUNT IN SPEECH: In defense of gay stance, Senator m

[Shana A]

OBAMA INVOKES SERMON ON THE MOUNT IN SPEECH: In defense of gay stance, Senator may have taken scripture out of context
By Mona Austin

(March 14, 2008)

http://www.eurweb.com/story/eur41733.cfm

      Democratic forerunner Barack Obama made comments recently that may rile the ire of evangelical voters. While speaking in Nelsonville, OH the Illinois Senator thrust his alternate philosophy about abortion and gay marriage (which Christians traditionally view as the 2 most morally critical socio-political issues) into his remarks.

[cindianna_jones]

I think that he is taking the higher road.  While I can not condone abortion, I do understand that there are cases which can or should not be avoided.  That decision should be between a patient and her doctor.  It is not my choice or that of my government to make.  I agree with Obama. The best way to prevent abortion is to work at the other end of the problem.   We need to educate our children.  We need to have active pregnancy prevention programs.  We need better support and medical care for pregnant teens.  And finally, we need be prepared to support those children that are born.  Pro life people need to be more active in adopting children.... especially minorities and those born with birth defects. Young mothers need help with securing employment, getting to work, childcare, and other help so that they can become contributing members of our society.  This all requires much more attention than either side of the argument is willing to take on and there's the rub.  It costs money and resources.  Additionally, many fundamentalists will not agree to sex education.

On the "civil unions" argument..... let's give all marriages, households, unions... any group of people who live together for whatever reason the opportunity to register with the government as a civil household with all the same rights and legal responsibilities by filing with the government.  I would strongly favor getting government out of the marriage business.  I'd like to see a law passed which universally replaces the word "marriage" with civil household (or whatever you want to call it) in all of our laws and tax codes.

I knew two men who were disabled many years ago.  They were both disabled but were able to take care of each other.  The man in the wheel chair could drive and prepare meals because he had full use of his arms.  The fellow who could not use his arms very well would push the other around in his wheel chair.  He was also an engineer so he produced the bulk of the income.  The two managed quite well together.  I have no idea what their sexual proclivities were.  It did not matter.  Should they not be granted the right to file as a civil household as well?  It's not a gay issue.  It is a practical one.

Cindi

[Hazumu]

RE: "Pro Life"

Cindi, let's just say we're in agreement.

What got the psycholinguist George Lakoff started on examining how different groups frame things such as the abortion issue differently and arrive at different conclusions given the same situation (sorry for the long, long introductory clause,) was noticing that conservatives who were Pro Life were also pro-death penalty, and ANTI sex education, and anti reproductive services social programs, and anti pre-natal care social programs, and anti post-natal care social programs, and anti toddler- and day-care social programs -- certainly all the anti- stuff plus being in favour of the death penalty seems to make protecting a fertilized egg from man-caused abortion in the name of life into a huge hypocrisy.

Yes, starvation (of self or of progeny) is a great motivator to get one off welfare/into a job/blablabla.

Here's Mr. Lakoffs take on women's rights under conservatism:

Women's Role: The Strict Father, as the Moral Authority, is responsible for controlling the women in the family. He has this role because of the Moral Order: men, being higher in the Moral Order than women, are responsible for protecting women (and others weaker than themselves). The Moral Order ranking also places men in a higher moral position, which means that they are responsible for instilling and monitoring discipline in those lower in the Moral Order. Banning abortion, getting rid of sex education, and restricting access to women's reproductive health facilities thus assert the strict father's proper control over women's lives.

Warren Jeffs for president <sigh>

Karen

[cindianna_jones]

The argument can go both ways.  Pro Choice people will often be against the death penalty.  From the Pro Life people, this is not consistent.  My son recently tried to trip me up on this one recently.  He failed.

For the record I'm a weasel for both abortion and death penalty cases.  I would be happy if we never had to kill a fetus or criminals. Unfortunately, the world is extremely complicated and it's very difficult to pass universal judgments either way.  As far as the death penalty goes, my primary objection is that we might get the wrong guy.  And for that reason alone, I think that putting someone to death is the wrong way to go.  We've seen far too many cases reversed in recent years to believe that court decisions are on the mark for death penalty cases.  We've even see people claim responsibility for crimes they did not commit for who knows why.  I think it unreasonable to execute them.

Cindi