A list of TS traits from my therapist

[taru]

So people in the us are anti war and anti violence? give me a break

I didn't say anything about fitting the list. More like thinking whether the list is useful or not.

[Rachael]

its about as useful as saying 'the sky is blue, but sometimes its black...
both statements true, but says absolutely nothing....
that list of statements could fit ANYONE....
ask anybody you know, they would fit a few of those points... zomg it works!
but does it?


Defining trait for m2fs: have penis/had penis....
zomg, its true...
but its stating the bloody obvious like half of those points. then again, half are stereotyped feminine traits.... and nicely fit with the BS stereotype therapists can imagine of transpeople from THEIR experience of them, NOT a general experience...
R >

[Kate]

Wow, I never woulda thought such a seemingly innocent list would provoke such strong reactions!

I mean it's just a list of traits some people MIGHT relate to, isn't it? I don't think it's meant to be the beginnings of an oppressive political-gatekeeper agenda or anything. No one said "you must score 15 or higher to be a true TS." I think the intent is to just help and comfort some people by showing them that they're not alone with their feelings, that other people feel the same ways they do.

~Kate~

[RebeccaFog]

yeah.  It's just a list of traits that someone may have.

It's not like a required or even a certainty that someone would have even one such trait if they even have any of them.

But "nothing is easy with eyes closed / misunderstanding all you see"

[lady amarant]

Wow, I never woulda thought such a seemingly innocent list would provoke such strong reactions!

I mean it's just a list of traits some people MIGHT relate to, isn't it?

My sentiments exactly. Psychology is BUILT on this sort of thing. There's a whole branch, Psychometry, dedicated to finding commonalities between people. Every time you take an IQ or an aptitute test, or one of those "are you a cat or a dog person" thingees, that's psychometry. In the absence of being able to study thoughts and emotions directly, or do post mortem thingees to your brain, this is the ONLY way for psychology to collect data, and they are well aware of the fact that not every body will fit any list they come up with.

Guys have a higher aptitude for technical and spacial thinking, while women have a higher aptitude for language skills.

That's a fairly well-known maxim from years of fifth grade aptitude tests. Does that mean EVERY woman HAS to know at least 5 languages or she isn't a woman? No, just that she is more likely to than the average guy. AVERAGE is what lists are all about. This is just a list of averages. If you're not average, congratulations.

[Rachael]

Wow, I never woulda thought such a seemingly innocent list would provoke such strong reactions!

I mean it's just a list of traits some people MIGHT relate to, isn't it? I don't think it's meant to be the beginnings of an oppressive political-gatekeeper agenda or anything. No one said "you must score 15 or higher to be a true TS." I think the intent is to just help and comfort some people by showing them that they're not alone with their feelings, that other people feel the same ways they do.

~Kate~

Read the initial post, and the posters replys, it was MEANT by thier therapist as a list of common trans traits, and the posters subsequently goes on to state that the more things that fit you, the more 'stereotypical a transsexual' you are.... thier own words.
sounds like a pissing contest to me. not a friendly 'ooh look at this'

any list of traits or statements suggesting things about people will evoke strong reactions, welcome to the world of 'telling people how they think and why people dont like it'
R >

[RebeccaFog]

psychometry ehhhh?     


I didn't see it as a pissing contest.  People were just saying "that's interesting".

[Kate]

any list of traits or statements suggesting things about people will evoke strong reactions, welcome to the world of 'telling people how they think and why people dont like it'

I guess it depends on the attitude and expectations you bring to the table.

I'm wondering... those of you who took offense at this, have you read the book "True Selves?" If so, did you find it offensive and insulting too?

Much of the reason I loved that book was because of the comfort I found in realizing that many TSs went through the same things I did, felt the same feelings, developed the same hangups, etc.

But did you all read it and feel insulted and stereotyped and degraded instead?

~Kate~

[Constance]

I, too, didn't see any pissing contests. It seemed to me more like look as these stereotypes. I certainly read it as a ooh look at this kind of thing.

[lady amarant]

Just to clarify folks, I made a blunder:

The field in psychology of statistically profiling people based on traits is psychometrics.

Psychometry is the psychic ability to see or otherwise experience the history of an object or place by touching it

[Just Mandy]

Read the initial post, and the posters replys, it was MEANT by thier therapist as a list of common trans traits, and the posters subsequently goes on to state that the more things that fit you, the more 'stereotypical a transsexual' you are.... thier own words.
sounds like a pissing contest to me. not a friendly 'ooh look at this'

I was the original poster and I HAVE NO IDEA how you got that out of what I wrote below or any of my
replies because that is not what I think and was not my intention.

Rachael are you serious? You are flat wrong... it WAS an "ohh look at this"... I thought the list was good
because it helped me. Period.  I don't give a rip if you are TS or I'm a better TS than you. I could care
less. I'm very happy with who I am. I HAVE NO IDEA how good the list is when applied to others, but I do know
the list fit ME and explained a lot of  things for ME. The ONLY reason I posted it was to see if others did not
fit the list exactly as I did not. And yes I found that out.

Ask yourself this, "Why would Amanda want say people here are not really TS?" I have no reason to
do that and I think if your here at susans(in the MTF/FTM forums) you are absolutely TS. And truthfully,
if you're not I DON'T CARE. I'm here for ME and to share with people that have gone through what I've experienced.

So... in all sincerity... have a great day, life's to too short to waste on BS like this!

My therapist gave me a ton of reading material a few weeks ago and I'm just now getting
through it all. One was a handout that listed many TS traits. I have many of these, if not
all but for a couple I'm almost totally opposite and I was curious if anyone else was like that. For
example, I was somewhat shy as a child but as an adult I've never been shy. I've also never
been depressed. Anyway many of you may have already seen this list, the handout was
titled "We are Transsexuals".

[Lisbeth]

Stereotypes become stereotypes because they are often true. Just because a stereotype exists though, does not mean that it is true for everybody within the group. EVERYTHING works on a bell curve, where a big section of the group will be near the middle of any particular range of results, with fewer and fewer people out towards the edges. Due to my absolutely screwed up nature, I fall on the one end of the spectrum, while people who do not conform to the list fall towards the other end of the spectrum.

This is how science works folks, for better or worse. You make a series of observations, and then you start drawing conclusions and making predictions. Your model might be incomplete, causing some conclusions to be wrong, but that simply means your model is incomplete, not necessarily wrong. (Though obviously, it might well be)

There's nothing scientific about stereotypes.  They are a form of self-fulfilling prophecy.  Once people are labelled as something, they tend to start conforming to the stereotypes that go with the label.

[RebeccaFog]

Just to clarify folks, I made a blunder:

The field in psychology of statistically profiling people based on traits is psychometrics.

Psychometry is the psychic ability to see or otherwise experience the history of an object or place by touching it

Too bad, shorty (I'm assuming your short), I like the word psychometry and I'm sticking with it.   

[Lisbeth]

i made a statistic! 79% of all transsexuals wear clothes!
83% of all statistics are true dontcha know....
R >

"67% of all statistics are made up, including this one."
--Dogbert

[lady amarant]

[Too bad, shorty (I'm assuming your short), I like the word psychometry and I'm sticking with it.   

Sadly no. I am, in fact, a model/volleyball player without the looks ... sigh.

[Rachael]

so you dont wear clothes then ? *s->-bleeped-<-s*
R >

[Constance]

so you dont wear clothes then ? *s->-bleeped-<-s*
R >

Due to my appalling appearance, local government has forbidden me from NOT wearing clothes. I hear that next up is a law requiring a bag over my head. Hopefully, not a plastic bag...

[RebeccaFog]

so you dont wear clothes then ? *s->-bleeped-<-s*
R >

Due to my appalling appearance, local government has forbidden me from NOT wearing clothes. I hear that next up is a law requiring a bag over my head. Hopefully, not a plastic bag...

I have the same issue.  I'm pretty close to dressing like those women that are all covered up in the arab lands.

[foreversarah]

Hi,

I agree that some items on this list apply to a large majority of the population but I think some are focused on any girl or a transsexual pre-transition. eg. some may not want a picture of themselves as a boy/girl.

One obvious thing that isn't on that list, I noticed, was speech as boys and girls speak in different ways. It's quite noticeable in the U.K. For example men swear more.

Aside from this I was wondering if the word "chavs" is used in the U.S. I'm just interested to know.

Sarah

[Sarah]

oops!
I need to correct my math.
I calculated the percent from the average.
I shouldn't have done that.

The correct formula is:

the total number of points right which is 8
of 25 (the total number of questions)
So 8 is what percent of 25?
or
8 = Q% x 25
so 8 divided by 25 equals= .32
moving the decimal two places to the right gives us 32%

that sounds accurate.

32%
for me.

That's still way below an F.
Almost accurate a third of the time.
not very good, but better than my 1.28 % error.

Still not very good though.

To do this truly scientifically, we'd have to have a bunch of people take this as a true/false/inbetween test as I did and then average the scores together of a bunch of people and then use that to get the accuracy of the list overall.

My guess is that an average would be higher than it was for me.
However I still do not think it would be very accurate.
Somewhere between 40-60 percent accurate would be my guess.
Saying that no greater than 60 at best.
That would be my guess.

-Sara