Did you serve in the armed forces of your country?

[imaz]

Ok, I appreciate there may be social economic reasons for joining the Armed Forces in some cases. My own father in law grew up in extreme poverty and joined to help his family survive.

However there is one thing that bothers me. That's killing people...

"Whoever kills a person...it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind."

(Qur'an, 5:32)

[imaz]

Myself as well believe me

[sd]

Ok, I appreciate there may be social economic reasons for joining the Armed Forces in some cases. My own father in law grew up in extreme poverty and joined to help his family survive.

However there is one thing that bothers me. That's killing people...

"Whoever kills a person...it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind."

(Qur'an, 5:32)

Military service does not equal killing people.

There is a huge medical staff, who 99.999% of the time do not deal with combat wounds. They work in more or less a normal hospital.
I tore apart jets and put them back together again. Others repair vehicles strictly used to service those aircraft.

Very little of our Air Force is involved in combat, the majority is there to assist that small minority who do. Same with every other branch of service. You have cooks, mechanics, doctors, medical staff, administration, and much more. I fired a weapon two times in the service, both were just to say I was qualified to handle one. Yes for a short time I launches jets capable of carrying bombs, and a few that did for practice, but most of the time I was strictly repairing the jet or launching out aircraft for research.

I was more likely to be killed than to even have a chance at shooting a gun pointed at someone.

[imaz]

Military service does not equal killing people.

There is a huge medical staff, who 99.999% of the time do not deal with combat wounds. They work in more or less a normal hospital.
I tore apart jets and put them back together again. Others repair vehicles strictly used to service those aircraft.

Very little of our Air Force is involved in combat, the majority is there to assist that small minority who do. Same with every other branch of service. You have cooks, mechanics, doctors, medical staff, administration, and much more. I fired a weapon two times in the service, both were just to say I was qualified to handle one. Yes for a short time I launches jets capable of carrying bombs, and a few that did for practice, but most of the time I was strictly repairing the jet or launching out aircraft for research.

I was more likely to be killed than to even have a chance at shooting a gun pointed at someone.

No offence my friend but without that support 654,000 Iraqis might be alive today...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties

[sd]

Edit: Removed.

First off, "no offense" does not absolve you, especially when you are wrong. I was in the gulf during peacetime operations.


Second, next time you ask a question, try not to rub it in someones face when you don't get an answer you like. You may never get another answer.

[Laura823]

I was drafted in 1959.  On my birthday, with one hundred days to go, was extended indefinitely. Ended up serving 2 years, 3 months, 2 days and 10 hours. On the bright side, the 3+ months kept me out of the active reserves and gave me a total of 3 years GI benefits.  Was able to complete all 4 years of college on Uncle Sam's dime.

The 1st part of "Full Metal Jacket" was a perfect mirror of basic training in the Army at Fort Leonard Wood.  (Sgt Dimwiddy, Sgt Fladd, (better known as Fladdy Daddy from the rice paddy.  He drank the alcohol from the cans of sterno heaters.)  Those were the days.

[cindybc]

Wars do not solve anything they just destroy lives, many lives on both sides. Creating suffering, mental and physical pain, anguish, personal and civil property destruction, environmental destruction, Maybe insignificant to most but wars destroy much of nature and the denezins that dwell within.

Kill one man and it is a tragedy,  Kill a million and it is a statistic.
Morals and value for a fellow human is lost upon the insanity of exploding bombs, "SHOOT TO KILL!!" is the order contained in the rules of engagement, and in the insanity of the moment anything that moves is a target. Never been at war outside of in nightmares.

Suddenly there there was a flash of bright light followed by a
loud explosive sound that rented the air. Once the flash faded out I noticed it was no longer as dark as before, I could see some orange  flickering lights not far in front of me. As I walked closer I could could discern this flickering orange light as flames from smoldering fire.

I could hear this little girl screaming somewhere ahead of me, she
just kept screaming and screaming. As I got closer I knew that where ever this child was, that her screams were those of desperation. I went around this obstacle which I believe was a large chunk of concrete and there was a space that appeared to be the remains of a doorway and there sat this little girl. She had long black hair, I believe her to be about 7 or 8 years old. She suddenly stopped screaming and commenced to bang her head against the concrete door way.

Knowing no one was coming to her rescue, she was attempting to end her suffering by banging her head on the concrete doorway. I heard another scream, this time it was me screaming at the top of my voice for the little girl to stop. I walked around and over the rubble and came up toward the front and I saw this large square beam lying across her legs and there was blood everywhere, so much blood. All I could do is to kneel and pray for her, I was not able to touch her physically.

Cindy

[tekla]

Wars do not solve anything they just destroy lives

You prefer to be speaking German today?  Think a Third Reich Canada would be more liberal than the one that is there now?  True lots of wars are dumb, all are violent, but there are times when only war will solve the problem. 

And, for those that would doubt, or disparage, remember, as Churchill (I think) once said, that We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. 

Your ability to abhor violence only comes about because others are willing to do it for you. Another case of people eating the meal, but passing the bill off to others.

[cindybc]

I am only speaking of my feelings on it. I had a very close friend who came back from the Vietnam war who was messed up and practically died in my arms from cirrhosis of the liver, drank himself to death. I just wish there were other ways for people to settle their differences without war is all.

Violence only begets more violence. What happened during the first and second world war happened during the first and second world war, does it have to be repeated over and over again? What does all this throat cutting solve? I know that this is the way of the world but I don't have to like it. Ever heard of the twelve native grandmothers who were thrown in jail for demonstrating against war? I know one of them and I was there when they held the demonstration.

I was there along with those long haired trouble making hippies in New York in 62 during the demonstrations against the Vietnam war as well.Gettin a little old now but If the opportunity arose I would still demonstrate against wars. No offence intended to any one who fought valiantly in any of those wars, you have my deepest respects,  but I can only pray that some day we will not have to fight such wars any longer.

Cindy

[tekla]

I too know Vietnam Vets who came home and were never the same, I do know others who were not destroyed by it too.  I could say the same thing about what I do, the access to excess that we have has taken a large human toll, but other have walked through it and done OK.  Hell, I know people who were all messed up by college.  So it goes.

[kotafiend]

no, but i want to if it was only possible

[imaz]

Wars do not solve anything they just destroy lives

You prefer to be speaking German today?  Think a Third Reich Canada would be more liberal than the one that is there now?  True lots of wars are dumb, all are violent, but there are times when only war will solve the problem. 

And, for those that would doubt, or disparage, remember, as Churchill (I think) once said, that We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. 

Your ability to abhor violence only comes about because others are willing to do it for you. Another case of people eating the meal, but passing the bill off to others.

The Soviet Union would have crushed the Nazis on their own anyway, so by your logic the language would actually be Russian not German. Not of course that the Russians would have ever invaded Canada.

As for Churchill the British voters knew him well and kicked him out at their first opportunity to do so.

There appears to be a widening gulf between how North Americans and the rest of us see the World...

[tekla]

As a professional historian I just know that sometimes its a lot better to fight then to capitulate (as the Italians would have it).

Or as Jimmy Cliff puts it so well, But I'd rather be a free man in my grave, Than living as a puppet or a slave.

Also, as a 20th Century historian, with special emphasis on military history, I'm of the learned opinion that the Brits didn't deserve Churchill.  In the same sense that the Americans didn't deserve Lincoln.  He turned out to be better than the nation he saved. And he should have been listened to a lot more at the time he was really speaking.   

And no doubt, Americans view military service very differently than most other nations and peoples do.

[imaz]

As a professional historian I just know that sometimes its a lot better to fight then to capitulate (as the Italians would have it).

Really?

So you would have preferred Italy to remain a Fascist state under Benito Mussolini? To say I'm insulted is putting it mildly, if you really knew your history you would know that the Italian Army has fought to the death against overwhelming odds on numerous occasions. Adua, Amba Alagi, El Alamein to name but three.

If you insult Italians you insult me and my family personally.

Wash your big militaristic mouth out with soap.

[tekla]

I meant, that capitulate was an Italian word.  I don't think that Italy would have been, or was, better under that creep, though I'm not exactly forgetting that the poor Ethiopians suffered more under him than the Italians did either.

And, you know - or perhaps not, we run into it a lot more here - you are not the Italian nation, or culture or anything of the like.  To insult Italian culture, society, politics, art or anything else is not, nor will it ever, be a personal insult to you.

[imaz]

Arrendersi is the correct verb, Resa is the correct noun.

[Hypatia]

I meant, that capitulate was an Italian word.

This is incorrect (unless you mean in the sense that the word derives from Latin, and Latin originated in ancient Italy). The term capitulation comes from the history of the Ottoman Empire in the 17th century. It referred to European powers taking hegemony over parts of the Ottoman lands, and originally meant a bilateral deal negotiated between the powers. "Capitulation" refers to the chapter headings in the treaties, because capitulum (literally 'small head') is the Latin word for 'chapter'. In the 19th century it came to be synonymous with surrender, when the Ottoman state weakened and European powers took advantage of it.

[imaz]

Thank you Hypatia for clearing that up.

[cindybc]

I wish there was more I could do but like I say I am getting a little to old for physical demonstrations, and just how affective thees demonstrations were anyway Great Spirit knows, but doing something is better then doing nothing.

I do believe that everything we do in life has some affect to a greater or lesser degree, even a negligible effect on another is a productive and positive act if it is in the effort of accomplishing something that will have positive results.

So write a letter to your Congressman, premier, the Pope, the Queen of Duchy of Grand Fenwick if need be, and pray. meanwhile take time do what you can to help the less fortunate, veteran's included, right here in your own home town/city. And again pray.

Cindy

[Steph]

If I may add to the topic...

While wars destroy lives and countries, IMO there are times when they are justified; the allied attacks on the Axis Nations during WWII, the invasion of Cambodia by Vietnam to oust Pol Pot and his gang in the 70's for example.  And think how many lives would have been saved had the UN intervened in Rwanda, they may have saved 800,000 to 1,000,000 Tutsis lives.  Instead the world stood by and watched approx 20% of the population massacred by the Hutus.

LH