In all seriousness

[Lokaeign]

Your Mileage May Vary.

[Lisbeth]

Oh course today most psychologists label androgynes as "gender confused."

Lisbeth

[RebeccaFog]

I think I can actually live with that. Gender Confused.          GenCon

I am using the PreGendered term around the Norms.

[Shana A]

The phrase "non binary gender variant" is effective to an extent, but at the same time it seems to validate the concept of binary gender even while trying to point out that gender is non-binary.

I have similar issues with using the term gender variant, because it still implies that there is a normal gender to which we are measured. Maybe we should just be non-binaries. Or just nons

Z

[Constance]

The phrase "non binary gender variant" is effective to an extent, but at the same time it seems to validate the concept of binary gender even while trying to point out that gender is non-binary.

I have similar issues with using the term gender variant, because it still implies that there is a normal gender to which we are measured. Maybe we should just be non-binaries. Or just nons

Z

Now that I think more deeply about it, "androgyne" reinforces the binary, too. It mentions specifically male (andro) and female (gyne). The term works for me, but it also reinforces something that maybe shouldn't be reinforced.

I guess that's just a problem with language, or at least my use of it. There are ideas that I want to convey, but I'm limited by my vocabulary and the word available in the language I speak.

[Shana A]

Now that I think more deeply about it, "androgyne" reinforces the binary, too. It mentions specifically male (andro) and female (gyne). The term works for me, but it also reinforces something that maybe shouldn't be reinforced.

Good point!

I guess that's just a problem with language, or at least my use of it. There are ideas that I want to convey, but I'm limited by my vocabulary and the word available in the language I speak.

Many years ago I read a powerful quote from Jamaica Kincaid, to paraphrase, she said that one could not use the language of the oppressor to tell the history of the oppressed. I've often felt that I have to invent a new language to describe my life and gender. Our language really doesn't express who we are and how we live.

Zythyra

[Pica Pica]

i use the term androgyne because that's the one i've grown up with as 'twere.
as for shades o'grey not wanting to be the butt of jokes, i don't fully understand - in the culture i'm in then not being at the butt of jokes implies a very serious social handicap and malfunction. Everyone is the butt of everyone's jokes, to leave them alone is to leave them out.

[Shana A]

i use the term androgyne because that's the one i've grown up with as 'twere.
as for shades o'grey not wanting to be the butt of jokes, i don't fully understand - in the culture i'm in then not being at the butt of jokes implies a very serious social handicap and malfunction. Everyone is the butt of everyone's jokes, to leave them alone is to leave them out.

I think that British humour might not be as mean spirited as American humor.

Z

[tekla]

All humor is mean spirited when you parse it out.

[Arch]

All humor is mean spirited when you parse it out.

HEY, THAT'S NOT FUNNY! (Okay, just trying to fake you out.)

Try as I might, I fail to find anything mean-spirited in most of my puns.

[Caroline]

Oh course today most psychologists label androgynes as "gender confused."

Lisbeth

When in fact we're gender confusing!

[Pica Pica]

but its not mean spirited in practice. it's cod mean spirited, it's a game, a show of mean spirits. It's actually an attempt at connection and those who are the biggest butts of jokes tend to be the ones people have respect for.

[RebeccaFog]

i use the term androgyne because that's the one i've grown up with as 'twere.
as for shades o'grey not wanting to be the butt of jokes, i don't fully understand - in the culture i'm in then not being at the butt of jokes implies a very serious social handicap and malfunction. Everyone is the butt of everyone's jokes, to leave them alone is to leave them out.

same here in Newd Bingland. In my experience.  There are fatheads who are just mean, but for the most part, everyone is poked fun at.  People poke fun at me, but they have to because I keep them on their toes.   >

[Constance]

Oh course today most psychologists label androgynes as "gender confused."

Lisbeth

I've had to think about this one for a while.

I don't think I'm confused about my gender identity. At least, not any more. As a kid, sure I was.

So if psychologists were to describe my childhood as "gender confused," they would have been right. But now, they'd be wrong and mildly insulting. Again, this phrase seems to imply to me that anything other than the binary is abnormal. I guess by the numbers, it is. But I don't like being called abnormal.

Perhaps I'm too sensitive about this.

[Lisbeth]

Oh course today most psychologists label androgynes as "gender confused."

Lisbeth

I've had to think about this one for a while.

I don't think I'm confused about my gender identity. At least, not any more. As a kid, sure I was.

So if psychologists were to describe my childhood as "gender confused," they would have been right. But now, they'd be wrong and mildly insulting. Again, this phrase seems to imply to me that anything other than the binary is abnormal. I guess by the numbers, it is. But I don't like being called abnormal.

Perhaps I'm too sensitive about this.

No, I think it's quite appropriate for you to be offended.

Lisbeth

[tekla]

Puns are mean to the people who have to hear them. 

[Constance]

Puns are mean to the people who have to hear them. 

That's what my wife and kids keep telling me.

[Jaimey]

You know, I used to shun the pun, but now I can't get enough of them...I'm such a weirdo. 

Making fun of people is how I show affection.  I feel bad about it sometimes, but I don't know any other way.  If I tease you to your face, I like you.  Once, a friend of mine said that she wished I wouldn't make fun of her so much...I felt bad.  I think she gets it now, though.  It's how my family shows affection too. 

I care enough about you to make fun of you?  Somehow, that doesn't sound right...

[Arch]

Puns are mean to the people who have to hear them. 

I guess my partner must be a rare breed. He loves my puns. And, come to think of it, I love his. It's nice to be puncompatible.

[RebeccaFog]

You know, I used to shun the pun, but now I can't get enough of them...I'm such a weirdo. 

Making fun of people is how I show affection.  I feel bad about it sometimes, but I don't know any other way.  If I tease you to your face, I like you.  Once, a friend of mine said that she wished I wouldn't make fun of her so much...I felt bad.  I think she gets it now, though.  It's how my family shows affection too. 

I care enough about you to make fun of you?  Somehow, that doesn't sound right...

yeah. If I don't make fun of you then I'm not showing affection.