What is a woman/girl to you, Will you ever be one?

[sheila18]

I was reading the posts on Transexual or not Transexual that is your question.

  A very interesting topic, however I noticed no one defined what menat to be a woman  and only one post-er ventured to say  "Logically and with calm reason, I know that I am a eunuch.  I am treated as a woman by all those around me.   And that as close as I will ever get.  And that is just fine with me. "
Another post-er  defined womanhood with something related to "..was elected, of a Lesbian organization."
I understand that during the exchange of ideas something was left out in the translation. Understandable 

Can you clearly and simply state what is your concept of woman that you aspire to be if so and will you ever be one or knows someone born a male who bacame one?
  or a man if you are F2M

sheila18

[stephanie_craxford]

Can you clearly and simply state what is your concept of woman that you aspire to be if so and will you ever be one or knows someone born a male who became one?

For myself that is an easy one to answer.  You don't "become" a man or a woman you either are or you are not.  Although you could/can make yourself look like a woman that still doesn't make you one.  I truly feel that to ask either men or women what is their concept to be either, you will get a wide variety of answers, and it you are looking at forming a definition that can be applied and used as a yardstick, then I would put forward that it would be impossible.  There are women who possess male traits and men who possess female traits, but both are equally male or female.

Therefore my simply stated answer is that my concept of a woman is me and what makes "me", and that I aspire simply to be me.  I believe that all these things we talk about, such as:

What makes a woman,
What does it feel like to be a woman,
What are the differences between males and females, besides the physical.
What are female traits, concepts, and aspirations,

(same for men)

These are all things that a person is born with and are developed and nurtured as time goes by.  Generally speaking, male and female newborns and babies are almost identical it is only as they grow do the differences start to show (again not the physical).  I feel it is because of this that TS have such a hard time realising what and who they are and many discover later in life that there is something wrong.

But heck that's just my opinion

Steph

[Kate]

For myself that is an easy one to answer.  You don't "become" a man or a woman you either are or you are not.

What about those who are content with their male identity for most of their lives, but who discover later in life that they're "women inside?"

EDIT:

I feel it is because of this that TS have such a hard time realising what and who they are and many discover later in life that there is something wrong.

Ah, OK, sorry... missed that

But the thing is, if one can feel content in their male identity for forty years, and only later discover that they're female... then gender identity must be fluid, malleable. Both identities must have been valid at the time. If someone can identify as a male, yet be denying a "female within," then it's always possible that they can feel female, and be denying the male within.

Or... if the "true" identity was somehow "repressed" for decades, then gender identity can't be such a "core" personality trait after all. If it was, it would be inescapable, unavoidable.

[stephanie_craxford]

Just because they discovered later in life doesn't mean that they weren't always a woman, (visa versa for men of course).

Steph

[Kimberly]

As I have stated before: A woman, to me, is a girl who has grown up. Much in the same way as a man is a boy who has grown up. I really do not there is more to the definition than that. In my opinion, of course.

So given that I am a girl, whether I like it or not, I see it as an inevitability

[Kate]

As I have stated before: A woman, to me, is a girl who has grown up. Much in the same way as a man is a boy who has grown up. I really do not there is more to the definition than that. In my opinion, of course.

So given that I am a girl, whether I like it or not, I see it as an inevitability

LOL, see: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,3775.msg32697.html#msg32697

Great minds (humble too!) and all that...

[sheila18]

miss Stepahani:
there are no hidden agendas or conspiracies here,
love and without agendas, sheila

[Kate]

heaven is lost in the hell of the Intellect...

Oh WOW, I elect this for Quote Of The Day!

(if we had such a thing, that is)

Geez, THIS is going onto my fridge. Heck, I'm writing it on my forhead right now...

My new mantra, this is.

[sheila18]

I forgot to add, ther is the issue of wanting to be a woman,
sheila

[Kate]

I forgot to add, ther is the issue of wanting to be a woman, this poits inherently the energy and effort to be what we are not...how do we view what we are not(woman) becase if we do not needboobs and parts to be a woman why SRS...down the line...

Which is exactly why I'm always very careful to point out that I need to be female, instead of suggesting that I am a woman, need to be a woman, etc.

If someone merely needs to be (or be seen as) a woman, then physical changes aren't always necessary, and are being done with an ulterior motive (to be granted access to the woman's world) when they are pursued.

[Hazumu]

...I'm with the "I just am..." crowd on this one.

I'd like to present a meta-viwpoint, if I may.  This question comes up a lot in trans circles, but hardly ever amongst the general population.  For the 95%+ whose body-gender and mind-gender are well-integrated, it's just not a question.  You are what you are, now lets get on to doing other things.

But we transgenders constantly bump up against this dissociation between what our bodies tell society and how 'society' in turn reacts to our bodies, and what we feel internally.  Compared to the 95%, I was always asking myself what makes a man a 'man' and a woman a 'woman'.  But what blinded me to my own condition was in part that I thought everyone asked these questions of themselves, but (like me,) didn't talk about it much.

Part of my epiphany monologue-to-self went something like this, "You ninny!  The answer was there all along!  Why didn't you see it until now?!? >whack|whack|whack<"

For my part, my goal is to become the natural me.  It's pretty clear that the internal me is a feminine/female/womanly spirit that was strait-jacketed into a 'male' mold and leashed to 'society'-s idea of 'male' behaviour.  Am I a woman? (or, the 'woman' that Sheila is asking about?) 

No. Yes.

Let me repeat and clarify.  My answer to me IS: "No. Yes."

...It's going to be 102 in Sacramento today.  I better get my run over and the lawn mowed before I sweat the damn patches right off my derierre... 

Karen

[umop ap!sdn]

From what I've seen, women relate to each other a certain way, and from seeing this social dynamic (and even participating in it) I can say that it's a capacity that I share. It's a potential that one is born with and learns to develop. The best way I could describe it is a sense of identifying with other women, feeling what they feel, and a sense of kinship, even of sisterhood. A sense of being the same somehow.

I've also seen how men relate to each other, and just purely from observation as an outsider I would guess that it is also a sense of kinship. Hence the usage of the term "brotherhood". I can't speak from personal involvement with this as throughout my life whenever men have tried to relate to me that way it just didn't "click" and I felt out of place.

So I guess what I'm saying is, maybe being a woman is all about kinship with women in general, having that innate sense of identifying with each other (and likewise being a man for kinship with men). If you would rather be of one specific gender, and when interacting with people of that gender you have that feeling of sameness, then I guess you are of that gender - at least don't let anyone convince you that you're not.

[sheila18]

closing the poll   and   Results

well it seems that by comparing the traffic with the participation is clear that is enough of this.

[Melissa]

It's so weird to be transitioning.  I keep waiting for this to feel strange to me, but it doesn't.  Questioning keeps going on in my head.  It's like :

What am I doing?  Transitioning. 
But isn't that wrong?  No, it doesn't feel wrong. 
Why is it so natural?  Because you're really a woman, nitwit. 
Could I really be transsexual?  It sure seems that way. 
Am I just psyching myself?  Don't think so, everyone else sees it too. 
But how can I have so rare of a condition?  You just do.  Deal with it. 
But what am I feeling normal now?  Because your transitioning. 
But it just seems so unreal.  I thought this would never happen and it was just a fantasy.  Why?  Well, it's reality now; deal with it.
What have I done to my body?  Started transitioning.
Have I really altered it to be female?    Yes you have.
Well, I like it.  Is my name really Melissa?  Yes it legally is. 
So I'm going to live permanently as a female for the rest of my life?  Yes.
Cool.  Are you a squirrel?

I know there's more that goes on, but I have those questions go through my head every so often.  I guess it's kind of a self-check.

Melissa

[Melissa]

In other words, as long as we dwell on our past, we can never enjoy the present moment.

Melissa

[Victoria L.]

To me I already am a girl... it doesn't take the body parts to make a woman.

[Kate]

I got good news: you can learn to control your mind and inner chatter.
I got bad news: you have to work, meditate.

So just who is it that's controlling this "mind" and working at meditation?

[HelenW]

So just who is it that's controlling this "mind" and working at meditation?

Why it's YOU, sweetie!  That's who.

Or did you think that that voice that's constantly droning on and on between your ears is the real you?  (Nope!  It's just a survival machine gone awry.)

This much I'm certain of, who you are is behind the machine - you just forgot that part.

helen

[Julie Marie]

Shelia, I won't ever be a genetic woman and as far as society is concerned I will always be a man, even when I'm post op, that is if I get clocked. That doesn't bother me. Our society has believed without question that there is male and female and nothing in between. That they haven't asked "Why?" isn't my concern.

I see myself as a hybrid. Born in a male body but with a female mind (and personality) I am a combination of both. I'm somewhere in between but lean strongly towards female. There are male traits I have learned over the years that will always be a part of me. They are too deeply ingrained. I'm not hung up on "being a woman". I just want to be me. I will never fit in this society as the person I truly am so I will adapt in whatever way will make my life easier. If that means I have to "ham it up" a bit when in public, I'm okay with that. When I think of the act I put on all these years trying to be a guy, acting more female than I really am will be a piece of cake.

So I guess you could say I am my own woman. And that's just fine with me.

[sheila18]

Julie Marie:
Well put 

Sheila18