I want to kill this person, it seems like the only appropriate thing to do.

[Jaycie]

The link to the original blog is:
http://beastshepherd.blogspot.com/2008/07/i-want-to-kill-this-person-it-seems.html

I had intended it to be a part of the original topic posting.  However, something went wrong in making a graphic into the link to the original blog.  I skipped a step, thinking I'd already completed it, or omitted an equals-sign to link the blog URL to the BBS URL tag, and didn't catch it.  I then left the house for fourth-of-July festivities...

Without that link, yes, my post did look like an outing of the writer of that screed.  It had the appearance of supplying personal information I'd obtained by nefarious means for the purpose of harassment.  That was not my intent.  But in the public affairs business, perception is reality.  I stand guilty for what you determined my intent to be from the evidence in that initial post, and offer my deepest apologies for the distress it caused you.

Please, forgive me;

Karen

Apology accepted! 

While i still think that the posting of the photo and email publicly did cross a line.  Knowing now that the thread title and first sentence of the post were from the actual blog takes much of the percieved nefariousness out of the picture.

It is a nice thing to see someone in an administrative position owning up to their mistakes and attempting to make things right. Thanks karen.  ^^

[Cindi Jones]

There's always a "nutjob" willing to create controversy.  If there is no response to them what happens?

Cindi

[Drik]

well, I flagged the blog. ^^

[shazz]

Can you clarify some thing for me?

If I understand the story, there's this woman who's had a sex change to turn herself into a man, who has since met and married a woman. They wanted a child, but his "wife" couldn't have any, so he got pregnant, carried it for nine months or so, and then gave birth via c-section.

I think that's the general gist of the story

But, don't they remove the womb as part of the sex change process. In which case, and I could be wrong but I think I read somewhere it's possible to implant an embryo on the large intestine where it'll grow and develop normally, but require a C-section to give birth.

If that was how he got pregnant, couldn't they of done that to his "wife"?

Or am I just missing the point?


Posted on: 07-07-2008, 13:55:44

There's always a "nutjob" willing to create controversy.  If there is no response to them what happens?

Cindi

if no one made mistakes, no one will learn anything.

[Nero]

Shazz,

He kept his female parts and was artifically inseminated. He gave birth through his vagina.

[joannatsf]

But, don't they remove the womb as part of the sex change process. In which case, and I could be wrong but I think I read somewhere it's possible to implant an embryo on the large intestine where it'll grow and develop normally, but require a C-section to give birth.

If that was how he got pregnant, couldn't they of done that to his "wife"?

Or am I just missing the point?

I know a number of FtMs that opt not to have the bottom surgery.  It's expensive, dangerous and T generally renders one sterile.

About the intestine thing; I thought I was the only one who'd heard that story!  But, yeah, I saw it in some newspaper eons ago.

[Drik]

I know a number of FtMs that opt not to have the bottom surgery.  It's expensive, dangerous and T generally renders one sterile.

In Europe (at least Norway, Sweden, Netherlands and Belgium) hysterectomy is obligated.
You cannot get a new gender marker without having one. In Sweden and Norway,
you'll also get a new social security number (they are gendered). Its common in Norway to do the mastectomy and the hysterectomy at the same time. Oh yeah, I guess I should mention that all the surgeries here are covered.

[jenny_]

But, don't they remove the womb as part of the sex change process. In which case, and I could be wrong but I think I read somewhere it's possible to implant an embryo on the large intestine where it'll grow and develop normally, but require a C-section to give birth.

If that was how he got pregnant, couldn't they of done that to his "wife"?

I've read something like that as well, where a foetus can develop outside of a womb, but its really risky cos the baby could damage vital organs.  I don't think its been done by implant though for that reason or at least not in significant numbers, (it can occur naturally though).

[joannatsf]

I know a number of FtMs that opt not to have the bottom surgery.  It's expensive, dangerous and T generally renders one sterile.

In Europe (at least Norway, Sweden, Netherlands and Belgium) hysterectomy is obligated.
You cannot get a new gender marker without having one. In Sweden and Norway,
you'll also get a new social security number (they are gendered). Its common in Norway to do the mastectomy and the hysterectomy at the same time. Oh yeah, I guess I should mention that all the surgeries here are covered.

Sounds like a good news, bad news thing.  Remember, the United States is nominaly 1 country.  In fact it's 50 small countries and each one has its own set of rules.  The federal government has some authority but the day-to-day laws we live under are made and enforced by the states.  In California the law is one must ave had some kind of "gender enhancing surgery".  That can mean a number of things.  Mastectomy for a FtM would definately meet the legal requirements.  It's ultimately upto the judge listening to the petition.

[Del]

I don't know much about the medical aspects of this so I am not qualified to state an opinion.
But...

I want to kill this person, it seems like the only appropriate thing to do.

The sentence above is what concerns me.
Where will it end if we get a mind frame where we decide who is worthy to live and who is not?
And quite frankly, I am offended with that.
My road has been one of many possibilities, stops and self analyzations along the way that still hasn't had a final determination.
At what point along that path would I or anyone living in like manner be deemed worthy of a bullet or back-alley stabbing?

DH

[NicholeW.]

I don't know much about the medical aspects of this so I am not qualified to state an opinion.
But...

I want to kill this person, it seems like the only appropriate thing to do.

The sentence above is what concerns me.
Where will it end if we get a mind frame where we decide who is worthy to live and who is not?
And quite frankly, I am offended with that.
My road has been one of many possibilities, stops and self analyzations along the way that still hasn't had a final determination.
At what point along that path would I or anyone living in like manner be deemed worthy of a bullet or back-alley stabbing?

DH

I worry about it too, luv. When someone feels entitled to title their blog that way and then publish it at a place like WordPress, well, it's pretty much too bold. Nice I suppose that Mr. Russell outs himself in his own sense of entitlement, but that he has such feelings is really just beyond the pale imo.

Hugs,

Nichole

[Kaitlyn]

But, don't they remove the womb as part of the sex change process. In which case, and I could be wrong but I think I read somewhere it's possible to implant an embryo on the large intestine where it'll grow and develop normally, but require a C-section to give birth.

If that was how he got pregnant, couldn't they of done that to his "wife"?

I've read something like that as well, where a foetus can develop outside of a womb, but its really risky cos the baby could damage vital organs.  I don't think its been done by implant though for that reason or at least not in significant numbers, (it can occur naturally though).

I believe that's called an ectopic pregnancy, and it usually happens when the embryo lodges in the Fallopian tubes.  As you said, it can be dangerous for the mother.

Theoretically, you can implant the embryo just about anywhere in the body where it'll have a sufficient blood supply and room to grow - even into a genetic male, although no one is sure what effect the differing hormonal balance will have on the embryo's development.

If a workable process for implanting embryos in genetic males is developed, I'm sure a lot of M2F's (myself included) will be very happy girls.

[shazz]

Well you learn something everyday!

Reading your replies reminded me of a programme I saw on television a long time ago (back when dinosaurs roamed the earth or just before), I think it was called the "show me show", it was a weekly science type programme.

One week they just happened to mention male pregnancy and how the embryo could be implanted and so on. I think they said the "father" will need estrogen injections, and since testosterone will mess things up they'll have to come off.

If a workable process for implanting embryos in genetic males is developed, I'm sure a lot of M2F's (myself included) will be very happy girls.

I'm not sure about that; some women will hate you, since you'll be pregnant with out a womb, which means no menstrual cycle (which I've heard is a pain).

Over the years I've heard a lot about pregnancy, everything from pregnancy as prove of the existence of God (who but a divine creator could make something so miraculous?) even God exists, he's a man and he hates women (if God was a woman, the men will get pregnant).

I heard women describe pregnancy as "the greatest feeling in the world", "The feeling you get from knowing you've got a new life growing inside you is the greatest in the world". There again I've heard pregnancy is horrible, back pains, morning sickness, swollen ankles, strange cravings, mood swings, lack of energy, morning sickness (I know I've said it twice, but, I've heard its so bad I thought I better say it twice), non-stop trips to the toilet (or the john).

I could go on, but if I don't stop I'll end up with a novel.

Then there's childbirth, which you'll skip by having a C-section, I heard it's like pushing a melon through an opening the size of a lemon and feels like you pushing a porcupine out back wards. I heard childbirth is the most physically and emotionally demanding experience a human body can do through. Why any woman would willingly give birth more then once I do not know other then my last sentence.

I've heard no matter how bad pregnancy was, how painful or long childbirth was, as soon as you see your child for the first time, it all seems worth it.

this I think is getting of the thread, so I'll shut up

Shazz

[Kaitlyn]

Back on topic, I just can't understand the mindset of these frothing idiots who think complete strangers are obligated to accept their authority.  Just what is so hard about respecting the life, liberty, and property of others?  Why do all the rules of polite society go out the window when people are faced with something different?

It seems similar in kind (but certainly not degree) to that phenomenon where perfectly normal people become blithering idiots around computers - "Yeah, the power is out across the neighborhood, but what's that have to do with why the PC isn't running?"  How do they suddenly forget that electronic devices need electricity to work?  They know that a PC is electronic, so how do the normal rules get suspended?

Or, how about the people who don't know their way around power tools*, and get scared & back away when they're in use nearby?  "Someone might get hurt!"  Really?  How?  Why?  Since when is ignorance a sound basis for judgment?  At the risk of sounding like an Objectivist, people really need to check their premises more often.

"So, what is the minimum safe distance for ignorance?"
"You know, I''m not really sure."
http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff200/fv00168.htm

*Or guns, at the risk of being divisive >

[whatsername]

They wanted a child, but his "wife" couldn't have any, so he got pregnant, carried it for nine months or so, and then gave birth via c-section.

Most of this has already been covered, but just to clarify...

Thomas Beattie and his wife are legally married, as he legally changed his sex.  She's not a "wife".

You are correct that she could not get pregnant, due to a hysterectomy for medical reasons some time ago, this is why she could not carry the child.

Also, the child was delivered vaginally.

But, don't they remove the womb as part of the sex change process.

Nope, as has already been stated, this process is expensive, dangerous, and often with very unsatisfying results.  It is often not done, and not necessary for a legal sex change in the U.S.


As to the post which started this thread, I left a very polite post telling him that he's an >-bleeped-<.

[Elwood]

I don't hate Tom. I do think Tom is a bit more disturbed than most transmen, though.

Now, Tom did what SOME men would do if they could. His wife couldn't carry, so he did it for her. But it wasn't just that. Tom's got other problems, too. I know I personally could never carry a child. But that doesn't make me more of a "man" than Tom. I think what might make me more of a man is that I wouldn't have exploited my condition for the tabloids. Tom has ruined the privacy of his life, his wife, and his child. That was a very irresponsible thing to do.

As for what this person in the blog says-- MORON!
I do not have trouble dealing with reality. That's not what having a sex change is about. Having a sex change IS about dealing with the CONFUSING reality of my situation. The fact is, I am internally a man, and my body says otherwise. It takes some real wit, intuition, and honesty for a transgendered person to accept their gender, and realize it is different from their sex. There is nothing EASY about that, male, female, or whatever.

The person reading the article is ignorant. Tom did not have complete bottom surgery. That is why Tom was able to carry a child.

Also, I have a question. Someone said removing the womb can be a problem. Why? I thought at least removing my ovaries would help me so I wouldn't have to fight the estrogen in my body.

As for MtFs having children, I have no problem with it. But after they do that research, I'd like them to figure out how I can have a kid. I mean, transmen can't produce male gametes without having bone marrow removed.

...Guess I'll be going to Sweden! I spoke to some people at a LGBT meeting and I was told most surgeries are done out of the US.

And just to be a little anal on the issue, I don't like this "woman turning into a man" talk. I personally don't feel like a woman who's becoming a man.

[joannatsf]

I don't hate Tom. I do think Tom is a bit more disturbed than most transmen, though.

Now, Tom did what SOME men would do if they could. His wife couldn't carry, so he did it for her. But it wasn't just that. Tom's got other problems, too. I know I personally could never carry a child. But that doesn't make me more of a "man" than Tom. I think what might make me more of a man is that I wouldn't have exploited my condition for the tabloids. Tom has ruined the privacy of his life, his wife, and his child. That was a very irresponsible thing to do.

I think that is EXACTLY what a man would do.  Mr. Beattie will be rewarded with several $100,000 in royalties from his book and fees for speaking engagements.  Being a father is all about providing for the safety and security of one's family.  This is a major step in that direction.  The public will soon forget about Thomas Beattie; half of them probably already have.  10 years from now there will be a news segment "Whatever Happened to...", about this.

[jenny_]

I don't hate Tom. I do think Tom is a bit more disturbed than most transmen, though.

Now, Tom did what SOME men would do if they could. His wife couldn't carry, so he did it for her. But it wasn't just that. Tom's got other problems, too. I know I personally could never carry a child. But that doesn't make me more of a "man" than Tom. I think what might make me more of a man is that I wouldn't have exploited my condition for the tabloids. Tom has ruined the privacy of his life, his wife, and his child. That was a very irresponsible thing to do.

I think that is EXACTLY what a man would do.  Mr. Beattie will be rewarded with several $100,000 in royalties from his book and fees for speaking engagements.  Being a father is all about providing for the safety and security of one's family.  This is a major step in that direction.  The public will soon forget about Thomas Beattie; half of them probably already have.  10 years from now there will be a news segment "Whatever Happened to...", about this.

His actions have nothing to do with him being a man.  Lots of people exploit their conditions or unusual personal situations to get money from the tabloids and book sales, both men and women.  I wouldn't have done what Tom did, but thats just me, it doesn't say anything about my gender.

Providing for the family being a man's job is a very old-fashioned view.

[joannatsf]

His actions have nothing to do with him being a man.  Lots of people exploit their conditions or unusual personal situations to get money from the tabloids and book sales, both men and women.  I wouldn't have done what Tom did, but thats just me, it doesn't say anything about my gender.

Providing for the family being a man's job is a very old-fashioned view.

So, I'm a very old fashioned kind of father.  I won't lose any sleep over it.

[Elwood]

Meh. I'd say they were well off enough. I don't think this was his way of "being the man" and "providing" for the family. He was a pussy (excuse my language) for not standing up for himself and EARNING to provide for his wife and child. It's what a dumb man would do. And women do it too. Like the ladies who say, "OMG, I had an affair with this senator 10 years ago, give me money."