Looking at God's plan

[Melissa]

Yeah, that's what I meant.  Whoops. 

Melissa

[jan c]

I think all of us have been there (hell, I mean)... how worse can it get??


tinkerbell

I think heaven and hell are earth-bound concepts. (this is it, the 'hell sentence')
I don't imagine 'God' to be a judge.
Or a dominatrix.
Or a micromanager.

[tinkerbell]

I think heaven and hell are earth-bound concepts. (this is it, the 'hell sentence')
I don't imagine 'God' to be a judge.
Or a dominatrix.
Or a micromanager.

Aha!!! finally another girl...who translates words by their essence  and not by what they mean literally....


tinkerbell

[Melissa]

True, I don't either.  I used "judge" in the traditional christian sense of God, rather than how I see it.  I believe God creates us, has a purpose for us, and sets us to work to see what we can do with our lives.  As I said, I try to be a good human for my own growth; not because I feel I will be judged.

Melissa

[Chaunte]

Melissa, Chaunte,

AMEN.  Now, they can not use it against you.

I'm not so sure about that!  THere is a fundamentalist bloc in my school district.  This has always made teaching evolution a challenge.  I have no doubt that it will make transtioning,,, interesting.

Chaunte

[Rana]

I do love sweeping statements    So most of the Christian right practice homosexuality,  Bush and Blair are as queer as tartan rabbits - their calling each other "honey" gave their shameful secret away then.

I KNOW how you would feel if people make sweeping statements about people like, well us!   Ignorant, Ill Informed, Retarded & the like, right!!

And, who is this YHWH then?  We all know but why do you spell Gods name like this, not showing vowels is a feature of Egyptian, and also the Hebrew written word - we are communicating in English here. (I do know this statement is pompus and irritating, but thats how I considered your post.  Tit for Tat OK 

Rana


Posted at: July 23, 2006, 06:47:09 AMYou cannot say that  :-  accusing a whole group of the very thing they are supposed to be standing against (if such a position indeed exists).

Myself not being a member of the "religious right" whatever that is, I don't particularly feel the need to defend them as such (they can all be queer, would serve them right) but your statement could be applied to any group and that just strikes me as wrong.

YHWH is how the ancient Israelites wrote God's name, certainly was not how they pronounced it.  And anyway he is not YOUR God, he belongs to me and Osama Bin Ladin & the Pope.   Give him back this instant

Rana

[Kimberly]

If I may?

...
he is not YOUR God
...

If I read it right, VAL's God is very much her God. NOT the Deity of Christianity, (etc) A separate entity. Er, yes I realize some faiths do not believe such, but that is the gut of the matter, belief. I do not think I know VAL's God, nor do I think I am all that familiar with the GOD of Christianity. However, I have a (small) clue about MY God. Ya see?  Oh sure it might be the same entity, and just as easily it might not.

But this is really a subject for a different thread, so I'll shush...

[Luc]

While there are some things on this thread with which I disagree, I must say that much rang true: most people do not realize that many books of the Bible were written to be used in the context of ancient times. My mother, for instance, holds tight to her belief that women cannot be pastors or preachers, and cannot hold any position of authority in the church, because those things are reserved for men (who, apparently, are far superior). She takes this from passages in Corinthians in which Paul instructs that women not hold positions of authority in the church; however, the context surrounding this instruction was that a group of women had decided to take over the church and preach their own messages as opposed to those of Christianity. We can't take everything as a blanket statement, just because it comes from the Bible; there are many things to be taken into consideration, not the least among these the fact that it is a subjective book, not an objective one, as is the majority of literature, and no one interpretation can necessarily be correct; at least not one that comes from a mere mortal.

Rafe

[Terra]

Aye, I beleive the same holds for homosexuality. If you take into context the events surrounding the passages, wasn't there always an event involving more then one partner? As far as I know having more then one partner is wrong wether or not you are gay or straight.

[cindianna_jones]

I have to say that it really would be nice to get a real copy of God's plan.

It would be a lot easier to follow it if we could get it from the author directly.

Too many think that they know it.  And there are too many differences in every version to be "the" plan.

So, until God can send me an authorized copy, I'll just continue to stick to my personal values of love, charity, and compassion.  I'll be thrilled to end up with those who share them for eternity.  And if it be with Lucifer himelf, I'll give up Diet Coke on ice and learn to drink Coffee.

Cindi

[veronica06]

I think all of us have been there (hell, I mean)... how worse can it get??


tinkerbell 
=================

oh tink...........
it is of my personal considered opinion....if it matters......
and I am still atheist...BUT
heaven or hell.......
I was in heaven when I was there when my supposed to be daughter was born...holding that new life, counting fingers and toes...and seeing her smile and bubble...and stare at me with those brand new eyes......feeling her little hand squeeze my finger....
==========
I was in hell the night my ole man used the shotgun on himself.
------------

so yes.............

been in both places.

[Brianna]

If you know ANYTHING about heuristics and basic human psychology people don't like information that conflicts with their belief system. It's confusing - it upsets them. For the religiously indoctrinated, it makes them angry and self righteous as well.

"God's plan" is just a mental shortcut, a heuristic. People are mental misers - critical thought takes effort. Typically, people will only expend critical thought on subjects they are interested in. Transsexualism is not within the ambit of what Christians care to think about.

Ergo, if someone tells you that you are not following God's plan, understand this is just a thoughtless meaningless defense mechanism. A mental shortcut. In political science we believe that opinions without reason are not important. Feel free to minimize this Dungeons and Dragons nonsense.

[Shana A]

woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this. (Deut. 22:5)

I recently read a rabbi's interpretation of this, sorry I don't have it available to quote exactly. To paraphrase, the original statement in the bible was in reference to cross dressing in order to trick someone into adulterous behaviour or to commit a crime. Therefore, if we're "cross dressed" to express our true gender, no problem.

zythyra

[Lori]

Perhaps TS were put on this earth to out the bigots that use the word of God to discriminate?
Perhaps it is they that will burn in hell not us. That is us that suffer through and fight society just like jesus did marching through those that feard and killed him? Perhaps being TS is our cross to bear and we will go to the holly land?

I think it is all a matter of perspective and how you look at things. Since we are not the ones running around with a 3000+ year old book translated by a men using it to discriminate against others maybe we are right. Maybe we were put here to force those in society to show their true colors that would otherwise be passed by as good people. If the sight of a TS person so enrages a person beyond control so that murder, mockery, or prejudice must rear its ugly head, then I see no place for that person in the heaven that is described in the same book they use to rear that ugly head.

[Chynna]

woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this. (Deut. 22:5)

I recently read a rabbi's interpretation of this, sorry I don't have it available to quote exactly. To paraphrase, the original statement in the bible was in reference to cross dressing in order to trick someone into adulterous behaviour or to commit a crime. Therefore, if we're "cross dressed" to express our true gender, no problem.

zythyra

That was always an interesting bible opassage considering the fact that GOD made us all naked in the garden of eden whereas "Mankind" invented clothing after adam and eve ate the forbidden fruit.....
Here's a question......was there a male fig leaf??? and a different fig leaf for Eve...or was there a particular branch she couldn't wear the leaves off??