Transition without T?

[Chamillion]

Hey everyone, I'm just wondering if anyone can relate to this.. I thought I wanted to go on T for a while but now I'm thinking against it for a few reasons. One is that I don't want to start blending in with the rest of society. Another reason is that I love gay women, love being with them, really appreciate the connection that 2 women can have. Which differs from a lot of guys I've talked to, who say they usually dated straight women (or gay men) even before their transition, but being treated as a woman in a relationship or during sex has never bothered me. I'm still interested in getting top surgery tho, go by the name Trent, pass as male most of the time, just don't want T. Just wondering if theres anyone here that feels like me? Or anyone that is currently living as male and never went on T? Cheers

[trannyboy]

Hello Chamillion,

Welcome to the board. I am wondering how you identify aside from female to male or are you figuring that out? However you decide to transition is your choice, I will say you are choosing an unusual path. Most of the men on this board want testosterone.

There are other people who are transitioning without testosterone. I believe Nero might be. You will find quite a few on the transgender board. Many people are unable or unwilling to take hormones. You might have more difficulties getting approval for surgery but it is still possible.

Most FTMs will transition without hormones at some point but I think it is easier to pass (if thats important to you) on testosterone then without. Otherwise you will always look like a kid.

->-bleeped-<-boy

[Jasonk16]

Why would someone be unable to use hormones?

[trannyboy]

Short answer androgen sensitive bad thing.

Long answer some cancers, epilepsies, liver, heart, kidney, lung, blood, prostate, urinary and metabolic disorders, arthritis, consent, capacity, allergies, I am sure I am missing some of the possible issues that need to be ruled out.

For instance- I have acute intermittent porphyria which means some drugs that work on the Chrome P450 pathway in the liver could trigger a very big problem that is potentially fatal. Any drug like that increases the likelihood of an attack. Testosterone and other steroid are metabolized by the the P450 pathway and I have to be closely monitored and additional stress could cause an attack. In theory if I have an attack they take my T away until I am better. In practice it isn't possible and I have to get special medication when we see a problem. However I can still take T I just need more care then most people. Other people aren't as lucky.


Hope that answers your question a bit.

->-bleeped-<-boy

[trapthavok]

Hey everyone, I'm just wondering if anyone can relate to this.. I thought I wanted to go on T for a while but now I'm thinking against it for a few reasons. One is that I don't want to start blending in with the rest of society. Another reason is that I love gay women, love being with them, really appreciate the connection that 2 women can have. Which differs from a lot of guys I've talked to, who say they usually dated straight women (or gay men) even before their transition, but being treated as a woman in a relationship or during sex has never bothered me. I'm still interested in getting top surgery tho, go by the name Trent, pass as male most of the time, just don't want T. Just wondering if theres anyone here that feels like me? Or anyone that is currently living as male and never went on T? Cheers

Some of what you're saying can probably relate to a lot of people. Not everyone wants complete surgery, everyone is different. I know that I'm still thinking about a lot of things. Since I haven't had sexual experience I can't honestly say I know what I want. I know I wish I could get rid of my chest, and that I'm more attracted to women than men...and I definitely want T but I have no idea if I'm attracted to women from a women's perspective or a man's...it's just too confusing to try to put a label on especially since I've never had experience. I'm still thinking on my name though so kudos to you for picking yours!

Everyone's different. Maybe these links will help, but as far as I know you don't have to do all the steps if you don't want to. The top link is a lot of information on what gets done, so you can make the choice, but you don't have to take T.

http://www.albertatrans.org/ftm.shtml


http://youtube.com/watch?v=FjXmsQ-wvOM

[kestin]

Ahhh, I love Meiko!

[Chamillion]

Thanks for the replies guys, youre all stars.

But yeah, I used to identify as FTM but now I'm not too sure, I guess I'm just trying to be me and putting all labels aside.. sounds cliche I know lol.  I know that you have to go through more therapy to be approved for surgery than for hormones, I'm currently talking to a gender specialist who knows I'm having second thoughts about T and is willing to help me out.  I'll check the links out, and thanks for posting that video 

[trannyboy]

Chamillion; great start by talking this out honestly with your therapist. If you want to put labels aside that is fine. I do know one guy who went top-HRT and has been happy there. I know a few guys who have only done or want top and/ or bottom surgery. In my limited experience the doctors tend to want more time then if you went HRT and then surgery. It all really depends on where you are at personally though.

->-bleeped-<-boy

[Nero]

There are other people who are transitioning without testosterone. I believe Nero might be.

You called it! For now, anyway. I have some health issues barring me from T and surgery at this time. The only thing I'm sure about is I want top surgery as soon as I am able. As for T, I'm pretty sure I'll end up on that too. But there are only two aspects of it that appeal to me - passing and ease of muscle building. The rest of the stuff that goes along with it is all going to be a downside for me I fear. I really don't care about growing facial and body hair or anything like that. Yes, the voice deepening I welcome, but only for society's benefit, not mine.

So yeah, basically if I felt I had a choice, that I could pass without it, I wouldn't take T.

[Elwood]

Because you like being a woman sometimes, you might be some sort of genderqueer, or other sort of um, gendered. FtMs, I believe, tend to be male and know they're male. If they doubt it, they're probably better suited with a more flexible term. However, if you still want to call yourself an FtM, it isn't my job or anyone else's to tell you not to. My only recommendation is that you're completely honest with yourself and that you don't force yourself into a box.

Ideally, if my transition could go exactly as I wanted, I'd have top surgery first, then T. But they do it the other way around for several reasons... I think one of the reasons is that the breasts could grow back (partially) but the other reason I guess is just protocol. Because it's been so extraordinarily hard for me to get any doctors to listen to me or believe me, testosterone could take me 5-10 years to get, even though it takes most people only a few months. I'm hating this royally, it's made me self destructive again and more depressed. No one in the medical community seems to understand my struggle.

I'm a person that really wants T. Taking T before top surgery would actually possibly make it so I don't need surgery. My chest won't swell up every month and might mostly flatten out (I'm only an A cup).

Why would someone be unable to use hormones?

I'd like the answer to that question. I've been trying for about 6 months and with no luck. They're telling me to wait 2 years. But that number is for surgery. I don't think that it should be two years for hormones. I am getting extraordinarily upset over this. I'm going to call for a specific doctor that a local FtM (post-op) advised me to see... I am sure that doctor will at least listen to me and talk about it. I'm not begging on my knees for hormones right now. I just want to talk about it and know my options. I want to know what it's like. I want all that information but my current counselor says I shouldn't even be thinking about it. It's like she doesn't want this "sweet little girl" to transition. Everyone ->-bleeped-<-ing acts this way and I hate it.

Pretty much what I need is a legitimate therapist who really listens.

Posted on: July 19, 2008, 11:11:21 AMI'm really freakin' pissed off about this because I've been close so many times. And it feels like it's been longer than 6 months but I'm not even sure anymore. That's how flustered I am about everything. I feel like no one's going to help me even though I'm in a place where a lot (and I do mean A LOT) of people transition. I'm really down about this.

[trannyboy]

Elwood- I understand a bit. I started fighting at 13 but no one would listen. When you are under 18 they apply different rules. You got to find the best GP you can. Cold call all the area doctors and interview them. Fight, fight, fight... if you do this and can show your competency and long term desire (at least 2 years documented RLT) then you will find someone. It is discouraging and I ranged between transition by any means needed or die. There was no other choice for me then or now. I know because then you have passed all standards and the doc has trouble arguing. This isn't going to be quick unless your parents are behind you. My time line was RLT (13), HRT (15, almost 16), Hysto (18), Chest (21). I am almost 24 now. I am the youngest guy I know of to transition without parental support.

You need a new therapist if yours doesn't want to follow your path. Make sure to get a letter stating how long you have been presenting as male. If you can tell your therapist how you are feeling and what you expect to change for you to remain her client. Maybe she will change, otherwise move on. You don't need to be treated this way if you don't allow and I expect pay for it.

->-bleeped-<-boy

Many doctors feel morally compelled to follow through on treatment and monitoring to prevent unsafe use through black market hormones.

[Elwood]

Except now I'm 18 so I don't understand why I have no power.

I have a good GP. But I need a good therapist as well. The GPs here don't monitor RLT. Therapists do.

It isn't two years of RLT here to get hormones. It is 2 years of RLT to have surgery. It's easier to transition here by the bay area (don't ask me why, it just is). The thing is, I need someone to start "documenting" my RLT. Otherwise, nothing I've done counts. I've been cross dressing for over a year. Now, I haven't "made" anyone call me male pronouns yet. I am ready for it, but I don't feel a need to push it. I won't push it until I have someone backing me up. If a therapist says it's appropriate, my parents will give me less trouble about it. I know I'm ready but I need a second opinion to convince everyone. Convincing them is important and necessary.

I am really going to work with this. I'm going to call in for a new (or rather, additional) therapist on Monday. I need to know if what I've been doing "counts" as presenting as male (I haven't had a male name and I haven't asked for male pronouns, but I've done everything else... I've even told people I'm transmale for about 6 months).

[Nero]

Hey Elwood, the pronoun thing is difficult. Do you have a male/masculine/andro nickname you go by?
If so, if you're going around at least informally by a male or malish name and you dress male, then you're presenting as male whether you pass or not, whether people use the right pronouns or not.

[Elwood]

Hey Elwood, the pronoun thing is difficult. Do you have a male/masculine/andro nickname you go by?
If so, if you're going around at least informally by a male or malish name and you dress male, then you're presenting as male whether you pass or not, whether people use the right pronouns or not.

No... that's the thing. People have been calling me "Sara." And I didn't think the name was really relevant, but I guess it is, because my name is what "gives me away." They almost ALWAYS think I'm a guy until I introduce myself as Sara.

But Thursday I met a transgirl named Jasper. That's her male name. But she was fully dressed (and very cute! Haha). She passed very well but still let people call her Jasper. I'd assume she's full time, making a move like that.

I guess I really need to stand up for a name... Ugh. It's just that it's going to be such a struggle, you know? My family is going to hate it and that will just cause me more stress. That's the main reason I've avoided it.

I'm still struggling with the name. I think after I see this therapist I'll talk with my dad about it. My dad really doesn't have a problem with the name Daniel, but he says I should brace myself for a dramatic reaction from my mom...

[trannyboy]

Thats cool, I think I might have an idea. What if you go to a psychiatrist and get an official carry letter. The sort that so and so is going by so and so is a FTM transsexual and will be transitioning from female to male a part of medical treatment. This entail wearing male attire, using male facilites and name change. If you need me to confirm... basically give you an official way for your family; it will properly document the beginning of transition and you can use it to prove things to a new therapist.

Sorry I thought you were 17 and I have no idea the rules where you are. Great you don't have to wait as long. I don't know if it will work because of the name. What people call you isn't an issue but what you call your self I assume would be. Maybe the therapist will be cool with it.

->-bleeped-<-boy

[Elwood]

Thats cool, I think I might have an idea. What if you go to a psychiatrist and get an official carry letter. The sort that so and so is going by so and so is a FTM transsexual and will be transitioning from female to male a part of medical treatment. This entail wearing male attire, using male facilites and name change. If you need me to confirm... basically give you an official way for your family; it will properly document the beginning of transition and you can use it to prove things to a new therapist.

Sorry I thought you were 17 and I have no idea the rules where you are. Great you don't have to wait as long. I don't know if it will work because of the name. What people call you isn't an issue but what you call your self I assume would be. Maybe the therapist will be cool with it.

->-bleeped-<-boy

That's exactly what I want, Mr. ->-bleeped-<- (lol, that's such an awesome name). That letter would help everyone feel at ease that I'm not "forcing" things to happen.

As for male facilities, I've used the men's restroom twice this week without fuss. I might just keep using it, lol. It's usually a shorter wait because they don't pee in "packs" (you know how girls go into the bathroom like a dozen at a time).

I guess I'll be asking the therapist about it. I'm going to try to set an appointment with him on Monday. If I'm lucky I'll be able to see him this week... I hope I get to.

I came out at 17. That's probably where you heard me say that number... but yeah, I turned 18 in March.

[Jamie-o]

RE: Transitioning without T.  I find it fascinating (and frustrating) that HRT is so relatively easy to get (compared to surgery), when for the FtM, it is so much more life-altering and irreversible.  I think it's just awful that the Standards of Care states that one should be on HRT for at least a YEAR before being allowed top surgery.  I thought they were supposed to "first do no harm"?  What do they think they are going to be doing to a person's psyche when they force them to live in a freak-show-bearded-lady's body for an extended period?

The problem is, they are trying to shoe-horn the requirements for FtMs into the established requirements for MtF.  It makes sense to wait at least a year when you're MtF, for the same reasons that FtMs should wait a couple years for lower surgery - you want to give the hormones a chance to make things grow. 

Thankfully, my therapist operates on the basis of what is best for the individual, not on what a bunch of psychiatrists with limited experience with the trans community have declared is the appropriate course of treatment.  Not that it will probably make much difference to me, since I probably won't be able to afford surgery for a few years anyway. 

[Elwood]

Easy to get? I'm having the worst hell of a time trying to get it!

But you're right. I guess that it's too easy for a lot of other people to get. They've put me through so much crap that I'm certain it's the right thing by now.

I think PART of the reason you have to wait for surgery after hormones begin is for safety reasons medically. The hormones have got to be at a safe level and they have to be done "transforming" you, at least anatomically, before surgery is going to be driven into. It's not really a bad idea to wait at least a year, I think.

[Jamie-o]

I meant easy compared to surgery - getting the whole process started to begin with is its own battle. 

I guess, for me, it goes back to what I've said before.  I find it really galling that anyone can walk into a plastic surgeon's office and say, "I want breasts the size of basketballs." and they say, "No problem."  But if you walk in and tell them you want the stupid things gone completely, they assume you're crazy and require letters from 2 therapists - who in turn have all kinds of hoops they want you to jump through.  I guess it's the frustration of not being able to make decisions about my own life and my own body that upsets me.

And I completely agree that one should make sure that one's hormones are stable and that one is in good health before attempting surgery.  But I think that should be your endocrinologist's and surgeon's call, not your psychologist's, (after all, if you have been on T for a while, there's no going back anyway- so your mental preparedness should have already been established). And it certainly should not be determined by some random set of rules laid down by a bunch of academicians who have never met you.

BTW, on a personal note - I'm glad to hear that you are seeking a second opinion.  It sounds as if your therapist is not on the same page as you regarding transition.  I forget who said it (someone on these boards) but I think it's good advice - if your therapist says you're not ready, get a second opinion.  If that person says you're not ready, get a third, and if all three say you're not ready - well then they're probably right.

[Elwood]

Yeah. Starting is a hell of a battle. But I hear after that the rest is pretty automatic, determined by the preset time limits and financial ability.

That second opinion I'm hoping will be on my side. I'll come into that room with more confidence because this therapist understands transgender issues.