Farewell to all things familiar.

[TylerTerp]

(I never know how to start these things.)

A few nights ago I went out to eat with my parents. Everything was going really well until it was time to order. My dad did the very macho 'ordering-for-all-the-women-at-the-table' thing and tried to order for me. I guess I gave him a pretty bad look because he said "well I guess she can do it." But that in itself is already outing me to the waiter. I got really upset about it. It's hard for me to explain to my parents why stuff like that can just kill me. After the waiter left the table I said I was going to wait in the car and that they could just put my food into a box or whatever. Lost my appetite. Later on my mom said she had absolutely no idea what they did wrong. I still haven't explained it to them, because I feel like people are getting annoyed with me. And my girlfriend, Alicia, just says that it's going to take time for them to adjust. And after all, I haven't asked them to use the correct pronouns in public. It feels like a major step back because even though my dad has known about me transitioning since May, we didn't talk about it until a few weeks ago. He said "if there's a guy in there, let's get him out." It was really reassuring and probably one of the best things he could have said. But now my parents are more like "well, you know it's hard for us, and it's going to take a while for us to be used to it." I think 'used to it' means okay with it or able to function around it.

It's also hard because my sister is the only person in my family that doesn't know about it. Everyone (even me, at times) thinks it's a better idea to not tell her until I absolutely have to. But, she lives with me (and my parents) so even if my parents were to become more sensitive about my feelings, they still have to consider that she doesn't know about it.

I've decided not to go anywhere with my family until I can get this stuff sorted out. I just can't handle it.
---
I went out with some friends this weekend. I don't do that very often. I don't have any friends that you could consider best friends, I don't really talk to anyone about really personal stuff on a consistent basis (other than Alicia). We went to a park and hung out. They were high and pretty gone, but they were good about calling me Tyler and "he". The history with these people is pretty rich. I think with them, it's like...they weren't necessarily surprised about it, but they weren't expecting it either. But even though they're pretty good about it, I still feel like we're shutting eachother out. We don't have anything to talk about. Truth is, I'm too in my head, and I'm too into transitioning that it seems like it's the only thing I'm interested in talking about. I just want this waiting period to be over (but is it ever really over?)

Earlier today (or yesterday, seeing as it's 5:30 am) I went out with a friend who I hadn't seen since...November, maybe. We used to be really close. I told her I was transitioning through an email and said we should get together sometime. We went out for coffee and went a few different places, pretty much we just talked for about 4 and a half hours. I figured she would be really okay with me transitioning because she's always been one of the most open minded people I've known, and because of this I talked about little things (like how even when I try to wash my hands in mens restrooms, there's rarely any soap in there) and I felt like it would be fine. I guess it was but every once in a while she'd make a comment that was a little...off. She's in college, she said something about a girl who used to sit in front of her in class and how she couldn't figure out if she was a man or a woman. I felt like she was missing the point entirely. I agreed that sometimes TS's can kind of...overdo masculinity or femininity, but I feel like if someone is presenting as a woman, that's how they should be thought of. So that man or woman thing just seemed really insensitve to me.

I guess going into it I figured I could possibly have an interesting conversation about like...the way people treat men differently than women. Or what testosterone even does. It just seems like most people will ask me enough for them to kind of know what's going on, and then they'll want to move on and not mention it anymore. It doesn't give me much room to breathe. I don't know if it makes people too uncomfortable, or what.

I had the same next door neighbors for 11, 12 years. Piper and Cyrus. I've always considered them to be family, even to the point of calling their father my dad at times. We were never close in the way that you talk about, I don't know, sex or really personal things, but we hung out almost everyday when we were kids. So they grew up knowing me and how I've never been into 'girly' things. I finally told Piper, and I got my first really bad reaction. The first stab in the heart type of thing. She basically told me that, while she's sorry I've had to go through life feeling like my body is inconsistent with my mind, she can't recognize me as anyone other than the person she's always known. She says she REFUSES to call me Tyler and kept calling me by my birthname through our entire conversation. We haven't talked since.
---
Alicia lives three hours north of me. She's down here a lot and we're getting an apartment together soon. Things are really good with us, aside from the fact that I'm a jealous ->-bleeped-<- and I can't get over it.

She's working at a job that is 7 days a week and lasts 2-4 weeks. It's been four days and it's already hell for me, knowing it's going to be so long until I can see her. Anyway, she's been telling me about the people at work...three guys she's been talking to, in particular. She's a supervisor for these guys, the job is detasseling. So she's been telling me about conversations they've had, and dirty jokes they've told, how this one guy says he's going to rotate her tires for her. And it just ticks me off so much. First off because these guys get to see her every day, and second because it seems like they have this protective male thing over her. And I always resented that so much, really, any time a guy would try to do that to me I would be absolutely seething. I guess she can blow that off as 'whatever, they're guys' but for me it's this big territory war. I don't want any other guys being like that with my girlfriend. I guess because I've gone through it and know what it feels like to be treated like...I don't know, land that people are fighting over, and because I know how much I hated it, it just feels disrespectful to me and to her that these guys are so chummy with her. When I'm three hours away and get to talk to her for 45 minutes every day, and that's only if I'm lucky.

I hate men. I always have. Calling myself a lesbian was so, so easy. I hated it when men thought they could, what, give me something? I don't know. But now my thinking is...god, well, they could have. In the sense of marriage, children, whatever, men can always give women more than another woman can give her.

So that just sucks, right? I keep feeling like I'm never going to be enough, I'm never going to be fully male, I'll never be able to give my wife children, we'll  never be able to function sexually just like a straight couple would. I would absolutely love to have to worry about a condom breaking. I would LOVE that. It just hurts so much, knowing that I'm a guy who essentially can never really be a guy.

I think that's why I feel like I can never be with a straight woman. I don't feel like I'm in a lesbian relationship when I'm with a lesbian, but I feel like...lesbian couples and couples with a TS involved pretty much have the same options when it comes to children.

I guess that's what it's really about. I can't wait to have a family, and I have this tearfully deep pain of knowing that it can never be genetic. I don't get it, though, because when I was a 'lesbian,' that didn't bother me as much. Maybe because as a lesbian I was planning to adopt and now I'd much prefer my wife to have children. And in my head I know that I could love any child that has anything to do with the woman I'm with, and I could love it as my own and will love it as my own. But there's that constant thought I just can't get past...that it won't be. Not genetically. Why does this bother me so much? Maybe because I feel like I should tell the kids. I feel like everyone deserves to know their past and where they came from. Maybe because eventually I'd like to be open about being TS with my children, and I know that they would connect the dots. Maybe because I can't fathom having that conversation, doors slamming, telling me they hate me and I'm not really their father. Losing respect. Would they do that? I don't know. But it's always my worst fears that manifest when you think about future possibilities.

I just want to finish school (I start back today, should be done in two months or so if I can get my gym class out of the way) and move in with Alicia. I want to start college in January and transitioning when I turn 18, in May.

I just want some semblance of happiness again.

[Robyn]

Probably not what you want to hear right now, Tyler, but your folks do need some time to adjust to the change in someone they've known for 17 years.  And, unfortunately, you may lose some friends, like Piper, along the way.

But as soon as you are 18, you can go to court and legally change your name.  At college, the GLBT center can help you find a gender therapist so you can validate all this and begin the journey to your hormones and surgeries.  Somehow, I think you'll end up on the right side of the table long before my husband and I did in our 60s.

Oh, point your parents toward PFLAG.  Hopefully, your local chapter has an assigned TransCoordinator.  Check out the TNET page at the PFLAG website.

Best wishes, and rush slowly.

Robyn

[Kimberly]

Regarding parents and slips, well there is a good thread going on that may give some insight.

Also, there is so SO much more to a good man than anatomy, I think.

[stephanie_craxford]

(I never know how to start these things.)

A few nights ago I went out to eat with my parents. Everything was going really well until it was time to order. My dad did the very macho 'ordering-for-all-the-women-at-the-table' thing and tried to order for me. I guess I gave him a pretty bad look because he said "well I guess she can do it." But that in itself is already outing me to the waiter. I got really upset about it. It's hard for me to explain to my parents why stuff like that can just kill me. After the waiter left the table I said I was going to wait in the car and that they could just put my food into a box or whatever. Lost my appetite. Later on my mom said she had absolutely no idea what they did wrong. I still haven't explained it to them, because I feel like people are getting annoyed with me. And my girlfriend, Alicia, just says that it's going to take time for them to adjust. And after all, I haven't asked them to use the correct pronouns in public. It feels like a major step back because even though my dad has known about me transitioning since May, we didn't talk about it until a few weeks ago. He said "if there's a guy in there, let's get him out." It was really reassuring and probably one of the best things he could have said. But now my parents are more like "well, you know it's hard for us, and it's going to take a while for us to be used to it." I think 'used to it' means okay with it or able to function around it.

Tyler as Robyn said you need to cut your parents a little slack here.  If they were purposely using the wrong pronouns then that would be a different story.  Be thankful that they are still there, that they haven't rejected you, and that they are supporting you.  To be honest saying that you were going to wait in the car is acting like a spoiled brat, who gives a monkeys if the waiter knows, he probably had a lot of other things on his mind that a seemingly innocent slip of the tongue from your father.  You have to remember that just as this is going to hard for you it's also going to be hard for your parents.

It's also hard because my sister is the only person in my family that doesn't know about it. Everyone (even me, at times) thinks it's a better idea to not tell her until I absolutely have to. But, she lives with me (and my parents) so even if my parents were to become more sensitive about my feelings, they still have to consider that she doesn't know about it.

Is there a reason why no one has told your sister yet?  The longer that she is kept in the dark, the harder it's going to be for everyone when she finds out, and rather than being supportive she may end up being resentful that she was kept out of something that affects the whole family.  Personally I believe that she should know as she is just as much a part of the family as everyone else.  What is everyone waiting for?

I've decided not to go anywhere with my family until I can get this stuff sorted out. I just can't handle it.

Again, I'm sorry but avoiding family activities until you can get this sorted out is not going to work as it's your parents who you need to get this sorted out with.  Stop being childish and be the man that you are and deal with your parents.  Not being able to handle it just doesn't cut it as it's not going to get any easier bucko.
---

I went out with some friends this weekend. I don't do that very often. I don't have any friends that you could consider best friends, I don't really talk to anyone about really personal stuff on a consistent basis (other than Alicia). We went to a park and hung out. They were high and pretty gone, but they were good about calling me Tyler and "he". The history with these people is pretty rich. I think with them, it's like...they weren't necessarily surprised about it, but they weren't expecting it either. But even though they're pretty good about it, I still feel like we're shutting each other out. We don't have anything to talk about. Truth is, I'm too in my head, and I'm too into transitioning that it seems like it's the only thing I'm interested in talking about. I just want this waiting period to be over (but is it ever really over?)

The important issue here is that although your situation has changed these people still accept you.  They may not be best friends but they seem to be the only friends that you have right now, so don't shut them out until the relationship become harmful.  We all become consumed in out own transitions and often at the expense of other.  It is often self destructive and at time it seems that we don't care who we hurt to get where we are going.  We can leave a lot of debris in our wake.  There is no quick fix, you are just starting out, and I know it's hard when you maybe see the world passing you by, but you are going to have to have patience.

Earlier today (or yesterday, seeing as it's 5:30 am) I went out with a friend who I hadn't seen since...November, maybe. We used to be really close. I told her I was transitioning through an email and said we should get together sometime. We went out for coffee and went a few different places, pretty much we just talked for about 4 and a half hours. I figured she would be really okay with me transitioning because she's always been one of the most open minded people I've known, and because of this I talked about little things (like how even when I try to wash my hands in mens restrooms, there's rarely any soap in there) and I felt like it would be fine. I guess it was but every once in a while she'd make a comment that was a little...off. She's in college, she said something about a girl who used to sit in front of her in class and how she couldn't figure out if she was a man or a woman. I felt like she was missing the point entirely. I agreed that sometimes TS's can kind of...overdo masculinity or femininity, but I feel like if someone is presenting as a woman, that's how they should be thought of. So that man or woman thing just seemed really insensitve to me.

You have to be a little fair with this person.  She sat with you for over four hours and listen while you talked about you.  Sure some of her remarks may have sounded a little off, but although she is open minded, you have to consider that she may have been a little uncomfortable, and a little unsure of what to say.  From her remarks I would have to say that she wanted to be supportive, and sometimes just being there while we share our burdens is sometimes all we need.

I guess going into it I figured I could possibly have an interesting conversation about like...the way people treat men differently than women. Or what testosterone even does. It just seems like most people will ask me enough for them to kind of know what's going on, and then they'll want to move on and not mention it anymore. It doesn't give me much room to breathe. I don't know if it makes people too uncomfortable, or what.

Hey Tyler my man, we are just not that interesting to everyone.  Yes this is the biggest thing in your life but I'm afraid that it's probably not the biggest thing in their life.  And it would be quite normal for them to want to talk about other things than the effects of testosterone on the female body.

I had the same next door neighbors for 11, 12 years. Piper and Cyrus. I've always considered them to be family, even to the point of calling their father my dad at times. We were never close in the way that you talk about, I don't know, sex or really personal things, but we hung out almost everyday when we were kids. So they grew up knowing me and how I've never been into 'girly' things. I finally told Piper, and I got my first really bad reaction. The first stab in the heart type of thing. She basically told me that, while she's sorry I've had to go through life feeling like my body is inconsistent with my mind, she can't recognize me as anyone other than the person she's always known. She says she REFUSES to call me Tyler and kept calling me by my birthname through our entire conversation. We haven't talked since.

This is unfortunate, but it is to be expected and having known you for that long she is experiencing to a degree the same feelings that parents, aunts or uncles go through.  Give them time, not everyone is going to be jumping for joy over your transition.  Your have to be prepared to loose friends and family along the way, it's unavoidable.  You are also going to have to prepare yourself for the real possibility that your sister will reject you as well.
---

Alicia lives three hours north of me. She's down here a lot and we're getting an apartment together soon. Things are really good with us, aside from the fact that I'm a jealous idiot and I can't get over it.

She's working at a job that is 7 days a week and lasts 2-4 weeks. It's been four days and it's already hell for me, knowing it's going to be so long until I can see her. Anyway, she's been telling me about the people at work...three guys she's been talking to, in particular. She's a supervisor for these guys, the job is detasseling. So she's been telling me about conversations they've had, and dirty jokes they've told, how this one guy says he's going to rotate her tires for her. And it just pisses me off so much. First off because these guys get to see her every day, and second because it seems like they have this protective male thing over her. And I always resented that so much, really, any time a guy would try to do that to me I would be absolutely seething. I guess she can blow that off as 'whatever, they're guys' but for me it's this big territory war. I don't want any other guys being like that with my girlfriend. I guess because I've gone through it and know what it feels like to be treated like...I don't know, land that people are fighting over, and because I know how much I hated it, it just feels disrespectful to me and to her that these guys are so chummy with her. When I'm three hours away and get to talk to her for 45 minutes every day, and that's only if I'm lucky.

It seems that this is a temporary situation Tyler, and you are going to have to trust her judgement on this cause if you don't and start letting that green monster out to wreck havoc, you will end up sharing your apartment with no one but yourself.  yes it's upsetting that other men see her more than you and that you don't like the way she is being treated but right now there is nothing you can do, and believe me this type of behavior is always there.  Be thankful that you are only three hours away and cherish those 45 minutes that you get to talk to her each day, don't whine.

I hate men. I always have. Calling myself a lesbian was so, so easy. I hated it when men thought they could, what, give me something? I don't know. But now my thinking is...god, well, they could have. In the sense of marriage, children, whatever, men can always give women more than another woman can give her.

So that just sucks, right? I keep feeling like I'm never going to be enough, I'm never going to be fully male, I'll never be able to give my wife children, we'll  never be able to function sexually just like a straight couple would. I would absolutely love to have to worry about a condom breaking. I would LOVE that. It just hurts so much, knowing that I'm a guy who essentially can never really be a guy.

I think that's why I feel like I can never be with a straight woman. I don't feel like I'm in a lesbian relationship when I'm with a lesbian, but I feel like...lesbian couples and couples with a TS involved pretty much have the same options when it comes to children.

Your talking about your state of mind right now.  You are frustrated and it would seem that you think that the world is against you that they don't see the man that you see.  The best way to deal with this is to start being that man, start acting like one, and take charge of your life, make stuff happen.  Don't let yourself to slip and wallow in self pity, cause if you think that this is bad, just wait, you're just starting out.

I guess that's what it's really about. I can't wait to have a family, and I have this tearfully deep pain of knowing that it can never be genetic. I don't get it, though, because when I was a 'lesbian,' that didn't bother me as much. Maybe because as a lesbian I was planning to adopt and now I'd much prefer my wife to have children. And in my head I know that I could love any child that has anything to do with the woman I'm with, and I could love it as my own and will love it as my own. But there's that constant thought I just can't get past...that it won't be. Not genetically. Why does this bother me so much? Maybe because I feel like I should tell the kids. I feel like everyone deserves to know their past and where they came from. Maybe because eventually I'd like to be open about being TS with my children, and I know that they would connect the dots. Maybe because I can't fathom having that conversation, doors slamming, telling me they hate me and I'm not really their father. Losing respect. Would they do that? I don't know. But it's always my worst fears that manifest when you think about future possibilities.

Tyler we all have hope, dreams, and wishes, but we have to understand the reality of life as well, although many TS women would love to give birth, they know that it's just not going to happen.  While that may be huge for some, there is not point in dwelling on it as it ain't going to happen.  Concentrate on what you can do not what you can't do hon.

I just want to finish school (I start back today, should be done in two months or so if I can get my gym class out of the way) and move in with Alicia. I want to start college in January and transitioning when I turn 18, in May.

I just want some semblance of happiness again.

And that it where all your efforts should be directed, as that in itself will have the bigger impact on your life that people getting pronouns wrong.

I hope that I haven't offended you but I speak from the heart and if I have caused you any heart ache, I apologize.  Give it time, have patience and it will work out, you have so much ahead of you that will seem consume your whole life, I know it did mine, and it has not been without cost.

Steph

[Dennis]

I agree with Steph, Tyler. As far as pronouns go, it takes people a long time to get it right and strangers don't really notice the odd slip.

The best way to get people to accept this and get with the program is to be forgiving of mistakes. If there's nobody else around who doesn't know, you can correct them quietly and carry on. Eventually they'll get it. If you get angry at them and show it, it's going to set them up to be oppositional and resent your transition.

And jealousy. You say you can't get over it. You're wrong there. You won't get over it if you refuse to make an effort. That's just about the most efficient way to lose a relationship, making the other person feel like you don't trust them, and like they're your possession. If you don't in fact trust her, then you're definitely in the wrong relationship. If you do, then show her you do. If you can't do it on your own, then counselling on that issue is going to save you a lot of heartache down the road.

Dennis

[Nero]

I hate men. I always have. Calling myself a lesbian was so, so easy.

Tyler,
No offense, buddy, but - if you hate men, then why do you want to be one?
You're not the first FtM I've heard say something like this. It always amazes me that one could come from a point of being a man-hating lesbian to being an FtM. That's tantamount to a gay man who feels that, "Anything that bleeds for 7 days and lives isn't human.", and then becomes MtF.
I'm sorry, but it makes no sense to me.
I consider myself a man. I identify with men. I live in the world of men. I bond with them. All my friends are men. Not that I wouldn't love to have women friends, it just never seems to work out that way.
It is women with whom I cannot identify, nor understand. (Not that I don't love them.)
I realize that you were probably angry and frustrated when you typed the words, "I hate men. I always have." But you shouldn't even be thinking that way if you are FtM.

I keep feeling like I'm never going to be enough, I'm never going to be fully male, I'll never be able to give my wife children, we'll never be able to function sexually just like a straight couple would. I would absolutely love to have to worry about a condom breaking. I would LOVE that.
It just hurts so much, knowing that I'm a guy who essentially can never really be a guy.

I have one word on this - If you feel you are never going to be enough, then you never will be.
I am not trying to be cruel. I am FtM. I understand everything you're going through.
Who says you can never really be a guy? There is so much more to being a man than siring a child.
No, you and your girl will never be able to function sexually just like a straight couple would.
But that doesn't mean your sex life can't be as good as a straight couple's, just different.
I want children, too. And it does hurt a bit to know that I will never have a child who resembles me.
I feel the same way you do about wanting a woman who comes with children.
I do wish you the best.

Nero
 

[Mario]

Tyler,
   You are young and you are upset. Thats o.k. I used to be too. I am finding that many FtM's had identified as lesbian at first. Maybe because alot of them think just because they are attracted to women makes them a lesbian? I never identified as a lesbian. For me it felt more natiral yo be attracted to a girl even though I tried the boy thing. Every girl, and woman I have been with were straight. I wouldn't know what to do with someone who was not straight. The pronoun thing sucks. It can make your skin crawl when the word she or her is used to identify you. That will take time with parents. On to the children issue. First of all I was adopted. My parents treated me the same as my brother who they did "have". Another way is to get a doner, maybe even someone you know who is willing to give you a sample of stuff? Then who you are with does not have to sleep with someone to get pregnant, and you are with her through the whole process as the father. I know about that, been there done that 18 years ago, I was listed on the birth certificate as the baby's father. Thats another story. The point is you can't change your insides, but you can the outside. Testosterone and top surgery is quite a huge difference than where you are today. Just take one step at a time Tyler.

                                               Marco

[Nero]

Lesbian - okay  
As Marco said, many FtMs identified as lesbian first. Nothing wrong with that.

Man-hating lesbian - not cool (especially for an FtM)

Just had to clarify. I have absolutely no problem with lesbians. It's the man-hating, man-bashing lesbians I have a problem with. And Tyler, please don't misconstrue that as my having a problem with you. I'm sure you're a very nice guy. But, I don't see how anyone (no matter how young or upset) who states that he has "always hated men", would desire to be one. The logic behind that escapes me.

Nero

[Melissa]

I agree with Nero.  If you want to have a dynamic with other men, it would be best to not "hate" them. How can you be buddies with "the guys" if you hate them?  Personally, I love women both romantically and as friends or peers.  I'm having a blast being a woman.  To be honest, so far it's been a lot like I imagined it, but maybe that's because I started with a realistic point of view.  I don't "hate" men myself and now that I have transitioned, I find them being a lot nicer to me.

Melissa