Repositioning the Larynx through Therapy -- no surgery.

[silentcandy]

Hi. The main thing I work on in my transition is my voice because I feel it would probably be the hardest work I would put into my transition. I started about two years ago and I am very happy with my voice progression. I spent a lot of time into studying female speech production and applying it to my own voice.

But it wasn't until last month that I began to really question why most females do not have a prominent adam's apple. I read that it is actually hidden behind some muscles in their neck.
Then I noticed that when I breathed like a female, my adams apple would lose it prominence. So all I had to  do was breathe deeper to create room for my larynx to rest further in my neck.
I did this for a couple of days and woke up one morning to find that my adams apple was gone. I was happy because not only did it make feel better but it made my voice sound so much better and it became much easier to breath using my upper airway muscles ( like females do ). My larynx now sits higher in my neck. Theres range, theres clarity,... I love it. I use to have a very noticable adams apple..and now its gone.


Now that I know that it is possible to naturally get rid of the adams apple prominence, I'm starting to wonder why do so many people opt for the trachea shave? I've read it does nothing for the voice and is more a cosmetic thing.
I looked at so many M-F voice guides and instructional audios and videos only to find that none of them really touched on what I've learned MYSELF through developing a real female voice. Most talk about resonance, bogas pitch training methods, but from what I've learned its more about working out the muscles that help you produce speech.

Right now, my voice is at a point where I don't have to think so much about it. But, since I am not living my life as woman, I was wondering if there is any information out there about what I've done by positioning my larynx. I have not even attempted to talk 100% in my old male voice because I'm not use to breathing in that manner anymore...so its kinda... weird to breath like a guy now.lol But I can still sound male when I want.... kinda of how females can imitate a male voice.

I just really want to know if there is any information online about what I've done. I love it BTW but I would feel a lot more comfortable with myself if I had medical input, because the skin around my neck itches and theres a small sharp pain that I can feel... I dunno.

[Nero]

What you're saying is not possible.

[silentcandy]

Its possible because I did it.

[Nero]

How can an adam's apple just disappear? With all due respect hon, this just sounds a little out there.

[silentcandy]

I know what you mean and I was shocked myself,  but the adams apple did not just 'disappear'. Women DO have adams apples but its just resting between these two muscles. And if  I did it then its gotta be possible and probably even easier if a professional were to  guide someone through therapy.

I'm not going to post video or pics of myself because I am NOT open or even -image wise- transitioning yet.
But, I did start posting audio on youtube about -developing a female voice- because someone asked me to.
http://youtube.com/user/shevoice

The audios that are marked for 1+month ago are before my larynx was naturally repositioned. But the latest two that are from this month are the after audio clips. I maybe shouldn't have recored them during that time because it was right after and during the -allegies/sickness- that follows a dramatic change in my voice. Now, 2 weeks later, my voice is a lot more stable and comfortable.

[tekla]

As a scientist, all I ask is some sort of empirical proof of this.

I mean I got rid of mine, but I used beer and sort of covered it up.

[Shana A]

As a scientist, all I ask is some sort of empirical proof of this.

I mean I got rid of mine, but I used beer and sort of covered it up.

How did you get rid of yours using beer? Inquiring minds want to know 

Z

[tekla]

well, with enough beer, it just sort of goes away

[silentcandy]

hmmm... I could take pictures of my neck but even then I guess that could be refuted.

But if you are scientist then you should be able to understand that if you change your breathing pattens then that will have an effect on the larynx. After all, that is one of the reasons why the larynx drops during puberty. Because boys(mostly unconsciously) try to sound deeper and force their larynx down. With the help of the natural high level of testosterone already in their system, it helps them achieve this desired male voice that they were aiming for.

What I think I did was start breathing using my upper airway muscles(like most children and females do) and my brain has accepted this change.

[tekla]

In fact, boys, and girls too, get deeper voices during puberty due to the growth of the vocal chords, (see: golden mean and the Greek idea of length of notes on a sting) not any attempt to 'sound deeper.' Matter of fact, lots of boys try very hard not to have their voices break, only to fail in the end.

If mind over matter could change anatomy then the average male length would be more like six feet not six inches.   

[silentcandy]

The vocal cord growth is a part of it but not all 'boys' end up sounding like males after puberty and ,if they are raised as a female , then they do not end up sounding male at all... they sound female.
In the end, the desire to conform is what pushes boys to sound like men.

I didn't start sounding male until I was 12 but before then I would sound just like my sisters. I was also consciously aware that I needed to sound more like a male, so even at that early age, I mentally setup myself up to become more accepting to the hormonal changes that puberty brought. I remembered this when I set out to change my voice 2 years ago.

[tekla]

but not all 'boys' end up sounding like males after puberty

Robert Plant notwithstanding.

[silentcandy]

lol.yyyyyeeea ok.

I didn't make this so I would have to  prove myself or anything... but hopefully someone who is wondering ,what I once wondered, will stumble across this thread and know that what they are thinking is actually possible with dedication.

[Nero]

Silentcandy,

That's not what we meant at all, hon. Just that it sounds outrageous and we'd like more information.

[Kaitlyn]

Not to question your results, but the male Adam's apple protrudes because men not only have have thicker thyroid cartilage, but their cartilage forms a steeper angle than that of women.  It's a purely biological factor, and has nothing to do with conscious or unconscious intent.

It might be that you're just exercising muscular control to alter the resonance and/or pitch of your voice.

Believe me, if trying to sound deeper & more masculine is what leads to a deep, masculine voice, and vice versa, then I'd be a very happy soprano right now.

[silentcandy]

I'm not a doctor and would like more information on this myself.

I'll try to explain what I feel happens.

Last year, I told myself that the reason why men and women sound so different is because they breathe differently using different muscles in their throat. Men tend to use more of the lower respiratory airway muscles while women use the upper airway muscles to breathe and speak.

Estrogen always plays a part in this because it somehow relaxes the upper airway muscles. Since women naturally have high estrogen, this is makes it easier for them to naturally breathe using the upper airway muscles.

Most children breath using their upper airway muscles  and that is why children suffer from sleep apnea  and upper airway obstructions a lot more than adult male and females.( male being the 2nd highest possibly because the lack of estrogen)
I believe its because their sleeping mind does not to tell them that they do not have the upper airway strength to breath this way..and it causes obstruction.  Medically, there is still a lot unknown about this.

If you were to try and breath using your own upper airway muscles then your larynx would be pushed back into your throat. I'm guessing, because we're pushing the larynx inwards it tightens the vocals cords and causes them to become shortened( like females ). This is also why coffee makes it easier for people suffering from asthma attacks to breathe. It opens up the overall bronchial airways.


While I was training myself to naturally breath using the upper airway muscles, I noticed that the deeper my breaths were the higher my pitch got during the exhale release. So I started holding my inhale to produce a higher pitch sound and slowing talking it out, but still keeping my larynx pushed inwards to forever hold this position. I then started inhale and exhaling while using my neck muscles to  hold the position of my larynx inwards. When I slept, ate, drank, laughed, talked, I would also keep  breathing in this position.

I know it may sound confusing and its already lengthy but there is so much more that I did and believe helped me doing this.

tekla, mentioned something about the mind having control over the bodies ability as a joke, but I think its true.  Even sneezing played a huge part in this because I used my mind to tell the muscles that cause sneezing to force out a sneeze using the upper airway muscles that were obstruction my airway; instead of just naturally sneezing using the lower muscles like my body normally did. It was like forcing the muscles  to move and give airway access at a faster rate.

I'll stop now before this starts sounding even crazier. to you all. ol

[tekla]

I never said it was a joke. I said if you had that ability, the adam's apple is not where you would start.

[silentcandy]

Not to question your results, but the male Adam's apple protrudes because men not only have have thicker thyroid cartilage, but their cartilage forms a steeper angle than that of women.  It's a purely biological factor, and has nothing to do with conscious or unconscious intent.

It might be that you're just exercising muscular control to alter the resonance and/or pitch of your voice.

Believe me, if trying to sound deeper & more masculine is what leads to a deep, masculine voice, and vice versa, then I'd be a very happy soprano right now.

mmm... I understand what you're saying but females can train their voices to not only sound male, but to also drop that larynx so low that it protrudes like a prominent males would. But before this, their larynx would be inwards instead of steading down. I'm saying that it is possible to put it back.

exercising muscular control is what I call workout out the that geniohyoid muscle that follows from the base of your chin to under your tongue. It is also an upper airway muscle that, I feel , needs to be exercised for range control and pitch. Females use this muscle( and all upper airway muscles) when speaking and breaking a lot more than males do.

I read a very awaking report where they performed these testing. I'll post it if you like, but it is very long. Its titled "Upper airway activity in normal women: influence of hormonal status".

Posted on: July 21, 2008, 05:41:01 PM

I never said it was a joke. I said if you had that ability, the adam's apple is not where you would start.

ah ok.lol Sorry. ^^; But ,because I'm me, its where I started from. 

[Keira]

There is actually a physiological diff in the female and male larynx, its not
just positioning. T changes the larynx's shape.

Its not that much of the size either, its more the shape it has which makes
it protude more. There is a bit of a diff in size, but that doesn't explain
the adam's apple by itself.

But, its possible to reinforce certain muscles in your throat to make
it easier to position the larynx at its highest position which
gives a head voice (in singing). The head voice has a shallower
hair column and thus gives higher harmonics not just in the direct
from the vocal cords sound, but also in its reflection.

[Krystal]

I have a very noticeable adam's apple but I have noticed that when I swallow it moves up and all but vanishes for a second then moves back down when the motion is done. I have often wondered if you could train your throat muscles to hold it up there where is much less noticeable. This is the same thing Keira is talking about I think. The only problem is I get a sore throat when I hold it there for long. I wonder if its possible to build the muscles up enough to hold it there permanently. Hmm I am going to have to do some serious google searching later today.
K