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Lookist? On the Beauty Myth and Transsexual Women

Started by Shana A, August 19, 2008, 10:30:47 AM

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Stealthgrrl

Boy, this could go on until the cows come home!
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je

QuoteI want to especially thank Je for posting a link at the trueselves BB as well.

You're welcome Nichole.


Still, you anger me Nichole. I want my pm power back.  >:(
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tekla

Hey, I'll try to end it then.

I'm not fond of the idea.  It's a sort of lame feminist idea (conjured up when they should have been trying to solve real problems that have real solutions) that to say its stating the obvious would be putting it mildly.  So, her is the theory.  Good looking people (by whatever standard) get treated better than ugly people do.  Here's the proof.  Turn on your TV.

And, for the record - all things being equal - will I choose to sit next to the pretty girl who is nicely dressed with a good completion instead of the fat girl, dressed badly and popping her zits in public?  Call me shallow, but, yes.  Sure.  Ditto preferring men who are not fat, dressed well (no tummy bulge sticking out between the stretch waist sweatpants and the food stained t-shirt who is also popping his zits in public?  Yes again.

Do people like to be shunned?  Not in a general sense - though I'm fond that sometimes me and my friends can get people crossing the street to walk down the other side.  But everyone wants to find some acceptance someplace.  And you would like to be accepted for what you see yourself as.

And, there is a dislike about feeling - as I understand what Nichole is trying to say - about being 'used' as part of being accepted.  No one wants to poster child for anything, its not like being a spokesmodel for Revlon, its like getting your face on the side of a milk carton.

Which gets to the real crux of what I think she was saying, which is the phrase like us with a difference.  Because that 'difference' makes one 'the other' not one of the group.

To that end, she admitted something far more honest than almost anything I read on here, which is:

In doing so we have both found reasons to dislike this visceral reaction we have. We are both pretty much embarrassed  by our discriminatory feelings about trans-women who don't blend in well with the vast majority of other women.

Far from being something bad, the willingness to confront in ourselves what we don't like in others, is the first explicit step in making one's self a better person.  And, you can only get to that point by really examining what you really think.  Which is a very good reason to write in the first place.


FIGHT APATHY!, or don't...
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Shana A

If we can look at ourselves with complete honesty, and are willing to do the hard work of recognizing and changing our outmoded ways of thinking, and shedding cultural baggage that doesn't help us be better people, this is a brave and admirable thing. I aspire to this in my life.

Zythyra
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken." Oscar Wilde


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Keira

Reacting to beauty is hard wired very very hard in our brains,
part of looking out for the best breading stock...
(plenty of research on this and its conclusive).

Also, beauty is linked tightly to the need to take care of children,
since almost every beauty standards relate to child like
traits. Like large eyes, rounded large forehead, small nose, small chins and.
Our minds automatically are wired to like someone who has these traits
(that's why we also find young animals, who also have those traits, cute).

That's why I have to laugh at feminists fighting this millions of years old,
cross species trait, like it was some kind of conscious decision to prefer the
beautiful.
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Hazumu

Quote from: Keira on August 24, 2008, 05:49:04 AM
Reacting to beauty is hard wired very very hard in our brains,
part of looking out for the best breading stock...
(plenty of research on this and its conclusive).
Part of the art of makeup is mimicking (to the extent possible with paint,) youth and arousal.

And, as a friend once said, "Why are babies so cute? To keep ya' from killin' 'em!"

=K

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NicholeW.

Quote from: Keira on August 24, 2008, 05:49:04 AM
Reacting to beauty is hard wired very very hard in our brains,
part of looking out for the best breading stock...
(plenty of research on this and its conclusive).

...
That's why I have to laugh at feminists fighting this millions of years old,
cross species trait, like it was some kind of conscious decision to prefer the
beautiful.

The other fact about those few million year old traits, Keira, is that another one allows us to reflect on those traits within ourselves and ameliorate some of the more visceral reactions we have to others.

That is what the essay drives toward -- not that the visceral reactions aren't there, but that a human mind that's willing to struggle with itself can change some of her automatic reactions.

Of course, that isn't for everyone's willingness to embrace.

Nichole
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Keira


Nichole, this is not just a human bias, its a cross specie incredibly embedded bias, it probably implicates dozens of genes since it comes from way before the split with the apes.

I just find it completely ridiculous that anyone can even believe they can consciously completely
fight it off. Not going to happen. You can maybe dampen it and
stop its most blatant manifestation, but good
luck going against a series of atavistic response linked to breading and child rearing!

I don't think you could find more than a fraction of a percent of the earth's population
who doesn't have an unconscious bias in favor of the
beautiful, just as almost everybody has a bias towards the tall
(even short people have a bias in favor of taller people).
This can be tested by simple neuropsychology tests.




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