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Patches, injections, or pills?

Started by Princess_Jasmine, August 30, 2008, 07:59:41 PM

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Princess_Jasmine

Im curious because my endo wanted to put me on pills but because I had heard so many good things about injections and patches, I asked if I could have one of those instead. So he wrote me a prescription for patches and pills and said I can decide on my own which method I am more comfortable with. Anyone have any important advice as to what is the best method with the least side effects and why? Thanks a bunch girls!
  •  

Kimberly

Patches = a pain (meaning annoying as can be), although they do work well.

Pills = sub-lingual (under tongue), to avoid strain on one's liver.

Injections = Unknown.
  •  

April221

I had very good results with the patch. I wasn't really happy with them because the patches that I was using were large, and wouldn't really stay flat on the skin. They would wrinkle, but most people are able to wear them without a problem. The patch maintains a steady level of estrogen, which is a good thing. I didn't stay with the pills for very long, although they seemed to be alright. There are also very small patches on the market which I never used.

My choice is injection, although if I didn't have the problem with the patch wrinkling I may have stayed with them. As for sub-lingual pills, it depends upon which doctor you ask. It may not make that big a difference if you put it under your tongue or swallow it because the estrogen goes to the liver anyway. I'm not a doctor, and I don't have an interest in debating this. I really have no opinion on how to take the pills.

If you'd like an opinion, I'd probably try the tiny patches if that's what the doctor wrote the prescription for. Otherwise, the pills are convenient. Any way that you do it, nothing happens over night, so it's a question of dosage and time as much as anything else. You'll have the least side effects with the lowest dosage that produces good results. The same with the spiro, which you didn't mention. As long as it's doing its' job, the lowest effective dosage is best.
  •  

Ms.Behavin

Having used all three methods, I would say that all three work.  Pills are fine for younger people though they can stress the liver a bit in the more mature lady  I like the patch the best as it provides a constant level of estrodol.  Placement of the patch is important so that it stays on.  Injections work well but I found my moods spiking a day or two before the next injection.  For a while I used injections with a single patch to reduce the estrodol swing in the system.

With injections there is a risk of infection that you don't have with patches. 

Just my 2 cents

Beni
  •  

Keira


Highest level variation, and thus potential non liver related estrogen side-effects are
related to injection. That's why people often supplement with pills at the end of their cycle.
With injections you have to make sure you don't hit a vein and keep your needles new.

Patches, very safe, the new small ones much better than larger ones, but its hard to
get a GG physiological level unless you plaster yourself with them (one patch rellieves
menopausal symptoms, but that's far from normal GG level. They are also very expensive
if you want to get a decent level of estrogen into you.

Pills, dirt cheap, convenient, non painful and
quite safe if you use the right pills.
If you use estradiol or estradiol valerate and
NOT ethnilestradiol, a conjugated estrogen or premarin.

BTW, don't know why people keep talking about the liver load of estrogen,
its minor for bio identical estrogens (estradiol), much
smaller than that caused by a tylenol tablet.

Its the clotting promoting byproducts of liver removing estrogen
from the blood that is the issue and its only a big issue really with ethinilestradiol,
conjugated estrogens, premarin or very very high serum levels (pregnancy levels) of
estradiol (which is not easy to do with pill form estradiol (much pills per day)).
This is supported by studies on the DVT effect of ethinilestradiol and conjugated estrogens
versus using bio identicals.


  •  

Sunbird

Injections can be inconvenient if you fly a lot given the restriction on items in hand luggage.  You may get the needles through with medical evidence, but do you wish to produce that? 

Personally I prefer something I can take with me in hand luggage without too much difficulty (I use gel packets which are within the size limits and had no problem through security checks in either UK or USA).  In your case, either pills or patches should be easy to take in hand luggage if you fly.

It mean seem like an odd way of deciding what method to go for but honestly after you've been on hormones for a time you will be fearful of anything which may interrupt taking them.

Sunbird
  •  

Janet_Girl

Pills - Sublingual, currently Estradiol.  Safe as long as you have your liver checked.  I also take Zocor for cholesterol, so I have two doctors checking my liver.
Patches - Cant Allergic to the adhesive
Injections - Haven't tried, but my Doctor likes pills.  But no reason given.

Personally I like the pills, but I have not tried the injection.  My doctor said that there are no fast results with injections.

Janet
  •  

deviousxen

Quote from: Kimberly on August 31, 2008, 07:26:30 AM
Patches = a pain (meaning annoying as can be), although they do work well.

Pills = sub-lingual (under tongue), to avoid strain on one's liver.

Injections = Unknown.


My endo said that sublingual is still processed by the liver...

  •  

Sunbird

Quote from: deviousxen on August 31, 2008, 10:02:50 PM
My endo said that sublingual is still processed by the liver...

It is - but one pass instead of two.  Well ... sort of ... in practice some is obvously swallowed rather than absorbed through the tongue. Sublingual reduces the impact on the liver rather than avoids it - but then even patches require the liver to do some work.

Sublingual increase the effect so you shouldn't take hormones sublingually unless that is what your endo has advised.

Sunbird
  •  

Princess_Jasmine

Thanks all so much for the helpful responses. I have decided now to try the estradiol patches he prescribed me first and if they are really bothersome, I'll just switch to the estradiol pills.

Also, can anyone give me some very detailed / specific advise as to where to place the patch for it to have the best effect and least wrinkling? Also if I have hair lets say on my buttocks, do I need to shave the hair first for the patch to have effect or does hair anywhere not make a difference in the estrogen being absorbed? Thanks so much girls!
  •  

Keira


Everything we eat is processed by the liver twice, that's not the question, as I
just said, Tylenol has probably 10 times the impact on the liver than
an estradiol pill.

Drinking 3-4 beers has a major impact, probably 100 times what one pill can do!

The liver is made to process bio-identical estrogens (estradiol in pill, gell, whaterver form)
at physiological levels; that's what happens in women. During
pregnancies, the body is flooded with ultra
massive amounts of estrogen and
its the liver who cleans it up with no problems.
The DVT risk, even with those huge estrogen levels, only
increases slightly for normal weight women.


I think endo's better educate themselves,
because obviously they're propagating unfounded fears.

  •  

vanna

#11
yes i must admit my endo had said basically what's repeated here but after Keira said about it in another thread the more ive read up on the liver processing i really have to agree with her.

Not that theres never any risk but i feel very confident continueing with my sublingual regime where before i was getting quite concerned.

Thanks for always keeping us informed Keira.
  •  

Jordan

Quote from: Keira on August 31, 2008, 10:33:34 AM

Highest level variation, and thus potential non liver related estrogen side-effects are
related to injection. That's why people often supplement with pills at the end of their cycle.
With injections you have to make sure you don't hit a vein and keep your needles new.

Patches, very safe, the new small ones much better than larger ones, but its hard to
get a GG physiological level unless you plaster yourself with them (one patch rellieves
menopausal symptoms, but that's far from normal GG level. They are also very expensive
if you want to get a decent level of estrogen into you.

Pills, dirt cheap, convenient, non painful and
quite safe if you use the right pills.
If you use estradiol or estradiol valerate and
NOT ethnilestradiol, a conjugated estrogen or premarin.

BTW, don't know why people keep talking about the liver load of estrogen,
its minor for bio identical estrogens (estradiol), much
smaller than that caused by a tylenol tablet.

Its the clotting promoting byproducts of liver removing estrogen
from the blood that is the issue and its only a big issue really with ethinilestradiol,
conjugated estrogens, premarin or very very high serum levels (pregnancy levels) of
estradiol (which is not easy to do with pill form estradiol (much pills per day)).
This is supported by studies on the DVT effect of ethinilestradiol and conjugated estrogens
versus using bio identicals.




I bet you wrote that all from memory, you really know your facts on hormone theraphy.

Why do people keep thinking taking estrodial sublinguly is somehow better???
  •  

Keira

Sublingual is better because you get a higher dosages (more is lost when going through the digestive
loop), a better mix of estrogen derivatives (more potent since the first pass through the liver
when takiing a pilll
breaks down estradiol into several estrogenic compounds of lesser potency).

Each time estradiol goes through the liver, breaking down its molecules, it
produces clotting agents. So, one pass (injection,sublingual,gels,patches)
is better than two (swallowing pill). But. that's difference is minor
except for very very high estrogen doses.

Premarin, Conjugated estrogens and  Ethinilestradiol, the last one in particular
are hard to break down by the liver, it can take dozens of passes which each produces
clotting factors that cause DVT. Ethinilestradiol should never be used since its
a major cause of DVT.

  •  

April221

Quote from: Princess_Jasmine on September 01, 2008, 12:18:31 AM
Thanks all so much for the helpful responses. I have decided now to try the estradiol patches he prescribed me first and if they are really bothersome, I'll just switch to the estradiol pills.

Also, can anyone give me some very detailed / specific advise as to where to place the patch for it to have the best effect and least wrinkling? Also if I have hair lets say on my buttocks, do I need to shave the hair first for the patch to have effect or does hair anywhere not make a difference in the estrogen being absorbed? Thanks so much girls!

I'll wish you luck with the wrinkling. I was never able to find a spot where I didn't have a problem. I would like to think that I'm the only one who had this experience, since I was using a patch that was supposed to be worn for 7 days. Typically, I'd think that it SHOULD stay flat on the skin, like it SHOULD also stay on in the shower! I didn't have an issue with hair, but I'd think that it would be more comfortable removing the patch if the area was hair free. 
  •  

deviousxen

Quote from: Keira on September 01, 2008, 08:33:11 AM
Sublingual is better because you get a higher dosages (more is lost when going through the digestive
loop), a better mix of estrogen derivatives (more potent since the first pass through the liver
when takiing a pilll
breaks down estradiol into several estrogenic compounds of lesser potency).

Each time estradiol goes through the liver, breaking down its molecules, it
produces clotting agents. So, one pass (injection,sublingual,gels,patches)
is better than two (swallowing pill). But. that's difference is minor
except for very very high estrogen doses.

Premarin, Conjugated estrogens and  Ethinilestradiol, the last one in particular
are hard to break down by the liver, it can take dozens of passes which each produces
clotting factors that cause DVT. Ethinilestradiol should never be used since its
a major cause of DVT.



DVT?

I probably know what it is, but what is it again?
  •  

Sephirah

Quote from: deviousxen on September 01, 2008, 11:36:20 AM
DVT?

I probably know what it is, but what is it again?

Deep Vein Thrombosis. Blood clots. :)
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  •  

deviousxen

Quote from: Leiandra on September 01, 2008, 11:38:34 AM
Quote from: deviousxen on September 01, 2008, 11:36:20 AM
DVT?

I probably know what it is, but what is it again?

Deep Vein Thrombosis. Blood clots. :)

Gotcha.

So is it from an excess of platelets, cause I recall reading that once?
  •  

Keira


I believe the liver byproduct increases coagulation, thus promoting blockage.
Its most often in the legs, but it could happen elsewhere too.
  •  

deviousxen

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