Nobody's Manhood is more challenged than ours

[Adam]

I just have a really hard time not having a penis. Sometimes I really just want to stand in front of a bus. That's how frustrated it makes me sometimes. I can deal with the rest of it; transition will fix it all. Except the part that most people THINK makes a man a man.

So does that mean if a guy had his cut off, he'd be less of a man? I suppose some guys may think that.

[Mister]

You're missing the point.

I really don't think I am.  Growing up female sucked, yeah.  Puberty was hell.  Having everyone think I was a girl and project feminine things on me was hard.  But it was also hard to be told to go back 'where i came from' and to get out of someone else's country.  It was hard to walk with a cane when I wanted to run and jump and swim and be a teenager.  It was harder to walk with the social stigma of being a cripple.

But none of that other stuff had anything to do with your manhood.

Posted on: September 02, 2008, 04:50:40 PMI'll try to clarify what I mean.

I'm not talking about whether or not we can DO something about it - give our tits the axe, take T, have phallo, etc.

I'm not talking about other challenges we may have had on top of this condition - immigration/disability/racism/poverty/broken home/ or any other issues we may have faced in our lives.

I'm not even talking about transphobia or 'cock length contests' with other men.

I mean that our manhood is inherently challenged from the day we are born.

If you've never took issue with that, more power to you.

What I'm saying is that my manhood was never more complicated than any of those things.  My near disability has given me many more hours of strife, many more restless nights and much more emotional pain than my lack of being born anatomically correct ever did.

[Elwood]

I just have a really hard time not having a penis. Sometimes I really just want to stand in front of a bus. That's how frustrated it makes me sometimes. I can deal with the rest of it; transition will fix it all. Except the part that most people THINK makes a man a man.

So does that mean if a guy had his cut off, he'd be less of a man? I suppose some guys may think that.

I don't believe so. But he can't father a child or have sex with a woman...

[Mister]

]It hasn't been easy for me. It's like they're seeing how long it will take for me to start self injuring. I'm the only FtM I know personally that wasn't some sort of cutter or drug/alcohol/sex addicted.

I said easy for most.  You are still quite young, Sir Elwood, and have a few other kinks to iron out.  And if you really wanted on testosterone, there are ways that are much easier/faster than the avenues you are currently pursuing.  Not a judgement, just a fact.

And now you know two.  I have been drunk twice.  I have never smoked pot nor done anything harder than the occasional smoke while drinking, which i do less than once per month. i've never cut and find sex to be one of the less important things to a relationship.  there are healthy coping mechanisms out there and people who use them.  please do not further stigmatize our community with sweeping generalizations.

[Elwood]

]It hasn't been easy for me. It's like they're seeing how long it will take for me to start self injuring. I'm the only FtM I know personally that wasn't some sort of cutter or drug/alcohol/sex addicted.

I said easy for most.  You are still quite young, Sir Elwood, and have a few other kinks to iron out.  And if you really wanted on testosterone, there are ways that are much easier/faster than the avenues you are currently pursuing.  Not a judgement, just a fact.

And now you know two.  I have been drunk twice.  I have never smoked pot nor done anything harder than the occasional smoke while drinking, which i do less than once per month. i've never cut and find sex to be one of the less important things to a relationship.  there are healthy coping mechanisms out there and people who use them.  please do not further stigmatize our community with sweeping generalizations.

I do want it. But unlike some people here, I have a respect for the law and I take caution to foreign substances. I am not going to but unknown testosterone where I have no idea where it was made or extracted. I refuse to. In the 30's they'd give bio males testosterone from goats to try to prevent aging. What if that's what you guys are sticking in your bodies?

I don't trust internet sources, no matter what they say. I am not going to break the law over petty impatience. I am going to be the bigger man and practice patience rather than acting like a child and stealing from the cookie jar. So no, I don't want or need testosterone and less than the boys who have the nerve to black market their way into manhood.

I thought you said you did cut and that your doctors said it was okay or whatever as long as you managed it and all that. Or was that another guy who knows everything?

Guys who know everything all sound the same to me.

[Mister]

Oh gosh.  i do not know everything nor have I ever claimed that I do.   I'm not talking black market or online T either.  Two appointments in the city can have you on testosterone on either the informed consent or harm reduction model. 

My testosterone is- and always has been- prescribed to me by a doctor, picked up at a pharmacy, and injected in the proper manner.  The only thing that may seem at all 'black market' is that I exchange my used needles and syringes for new ones at needle exchanges.  Why? Because the pharmacy I use does not carry the size I prefer. 

And no, I'm not the cutter. 

[Constance]

I mean seriously, what could be worse than to be saddled with a female body? To be treated as female, to wear bras and tampons. I mean there is no lower degradation.

I showed this thread to my wife. She doesn't feel that being in a female body is degrading. So, perhaps it's degrading only to FTMs, but not necessarily to females in general.

[Elwood]

@ Mister:
Right, but not with my doctors pr medica department. If I do things here with Kaiser, whenever I need an appointment or check up, I only have to take the bus for $1.50 to see them instead of paying well over that in gas to drive to San Fransisco every time I need something. I have to stay within the medical department I am working with. I want to do things the right way with check ups to wathch my progress.

If I can get this in two visits, they're doing something wrong. They're neglecting my therapy, is what they're doing.

Sorry I confused you with someone else.

[Mister]

nah, it's not disregarding your therapy.  it's the informed consent model, which basically means that you're an adult, you accept the risks and responsibilities and, pending bloodwork or any contraindications, you're off and running.  i don't agree that this is the perfect system, but it's used.  the harm reduction model is designed to keep people from using the black market hormones of which you speak, basically saying that if someone's going to take T, you might as well give them a script for the stuff that won't kill them. 

i'm not saying that coming to the city is the *best* route to testosterone, but just that it is *another* way to get there. 

and for the record, i did not get my prescriptions under either of these models.  I got them under the Standards of Care, with a therapist and a doctor who are both well aware of the glaring flaws in the SOC.

[Nero]

I mean seriously, what could be worse than to be saddled with a female body? To be treated as female, to wear bras and tampons. I mean there is no lower degradation.

I showed this thread to my wife. She doesn't feel that being in a female body is degrading. So, perhaps it's degrading only to FTMs, but not necessarily to females in general.

That was the point. 

[Elwood]

nah, it's not disregarding your therapy.  it's the informed consent model, which basically means that you're an adult, you accept the risks and responsibilities and, pending bloodwork or any contraindications, you're off and running.  i don't agree that this is the perfect system, but it's used.  the harm reduction model is designed to keep people from using the black market hormones of which you speak, basically saying that if someone's going to take T, you might as well give them a script for the stuff that won't kill them. 

i'm not saying that coming to the city is the *best* route to testosterone, but just that it is *another* way to get there. 

and for the record, i did not get my prescriptions under either of these models.  I got them under the Standards of Care, with a therapist and a doctor who are both well aware of the glaring flaws in the SOC.

Okay, so does that mean I skip bloodwork? Therapy? Because I don't want a "fastpass" that skips things.

Plus, this special shortcut isn't part of the deal with my dad. He trusts Kaiser. That's why he wants me to be with them...

You might think I don't "want" testosterone enough because I'm not willing to run with this, but that's not the case. I'm just a man who uses his brain. I don't want to take unnecessary risks. I have this all set up. I'm with a trusted therapist. Having his name on the T letter could make all the difference when I apply for a name change or surgery. That's how good of a reputation this  guy has.

[tekla]

So much depends on the doctors and a lot of other things.  I know people who got E/T on the first visit, and had surgery and even full SRS within a year of coming out.  There are no rules, except the ones you write for yourself.

[Mister]

They do bloodwork.  They offer therapy.  Patients can stick with their current therapists if desired.  It isn't a 'fast pass,' it's simply a different method.

I don't think you're a guy who doesn't want T or doesn't want it bad enough or whatever.  I was showing you an option, plain and simple.  You've said yourself that you think testosterone can lessen many of your current woes, so I was pointing out that if you're stuck with a therapist who's dragging his/her feet on the subject, you can legitimately circumvent them.  I hope this Demara guy works out for you, I do.  I hope you get on T when you're comfortable with it and that he (or whoever you're seeing at the time) is there to support your decision in a non-biased way.

I had no idea you have any sort of agreement with your father.  It's pretty awesome he's supportive and you have my hopes he remains that way.  It would be fantastic if your mom falls in step, too. 

None of what I say to you is me trying to show you a better way, what i feel is the right way or whatever.  it's me offering advice, tips, tricks or hints from my experience navigating the system, the world and my own mind/body through passing, therapy, hormones, coming out, surgery, relationships, friendships, etc etc.  I'm a guy who uses his brain, too.  I got this far in a perfectly safe, perfectly legal manner.  And as I said, my physical transition was on the SOC track, not the harm reduction or informed consent programs.  Personally, I don't 100% agree with them but I don't have to, but I do feel the need to convey their existence to those who have expressed desperation or a feeling for being stuck. 

Your name change will not need a therapist's name on it.  It is a personal request, there is not even room on the form in California for any sort of credentialing.  Your gender change will require a letter from a surgeon, however.

Posted on: September 02, 2008, 09:45:09 PMAnd kind of back to this whole challenged manhood thing...

Elwood, you seem to think that I challenge yours.  i don't.  you're just as much of a guy as I am, in my eyes.  Please stop being combative.

[iFindMeHere]

I feel like I've become a lot more secure with my malehood now that I've been transitioned and on T for a while. I used to avoid all girly stuff because I had to prove myself as a man. Now that I'm done with all the proving, I can sit back and relax more. I find myself doing stereotypically "girly" stuff that I used to avoid. So what if someone challenges my manhood? I'll laugh at them! Or flirt with them or kick their ass. (Sorry, I just really feel manly today.)

ENVY. I am in that "cant do my nails or makeup" phase. and trying not to let myself act like some macho a-hole with a chip on my shoulder (response to past abuses).

I really don't want to be some buff macho sports-loving type (no offense to you boys who identify as such). I want to look like what I am--a very femmy but unmistakable male.

[Jack Daniels]

I still find the whole thing degrading. I mean women were born to be sexually passive in every way of the word, mentally I think everyone is same( meaning anyone can reach same level of knowledge), but phyiscally...physically... i see it as worthless. ( not meaning to offend)
And passive, and weak, ...But I DO respect stong women

[Constance]

women were born to be sexually passive in every way of the word

My experience with women, albeit limited, has been quite the opposite.

[Elwood]

They do bloodwork.  They offer therapy.  Patients can stick with their current therapists if desired.  It isn't a 'fast pass,' it's simply a different method.

I don't think you're a guy who doesn't want T or doesn't want it bad enough or whatever.  I was showing you an option, plain and simple.  You've said yourself that you think testosterone can lessen many of your current woes, so I was pointing out that if you're stuck with a therapist who's dragging his/her feet on the subject, you can legitimately circumvent them.  I hope this Demara guy works out for you, I do.  I hope you get on T when you're comfortable with it and that he (or whoever you're seeing at the time) is there to support your decision in a non-biased way.

I had no idea you have any sort of agreement with your father.  It's pretty awesome he's supportive and you have my hopes he remains that way.  It would be fantastic if your mom falls in step, too. 

None of what I say to you is me trying to show you a better way, what i feel is the right way or whatever.  it's me offering advice, tips, tricks or hints from my experience navigating the system, the world and my own mind/body through passing, therapy, hormones, coming out, surgery, relationships, friendships, etc etc.  I'm a guy who uses his brain, too.  I got this far in a perfectly safe, perfectly legal manner.  And as I said, my physical transition was on the SOC track, not the harm reduction or informed consent programs.  Personally, I don't 100% agree with them but I don't have to, but I do feel the need to convey their existence to those who have expressed desperation or a feeling for being stuck. 

Your name change will not need a therapist's name on it.  It is a personal request, there is not even room on the form in California for any sort of credentialing.  Your gender change will require a letter from a surgeon, however.

Posted on: September 02, 2008, 09:45:09 PMAnd kind of back to this whole challenged manhood thing...

Elwood, you seem to think that I challenge yours.  i don't.  you're just as much of a guy as I am, in my eyes.  Please stop being combative.

Mr. Demara shows signs of many promise... I will be seeing him in roughly 2 weeks. I have to hold on only a little bit longer before we'll have news of what he is really like. But I can't even give up on him the first visit. I'll give him a chance. But if the next appointment with him is in another month, then I will have to make changes. I can't live like this, seeing a provider only once a month.

The agreement with my father is simple and reasonable; he wants me to obtain testosterone by legal means. He wants me to go through a satisfactory amount of therapy before administering testosterone. His only requests have been that. He specifically said he wanted me to work with Kaiser, but he also said that if Kaiser proves to be too slow or unhelpful that we will find another safe/reliable source.

My name change will not need my therapist's name on it. I am already aware of that. However, I must go to court to have a full legal name change with the social security offices. I need to plead a short case, and if a Ph.D is backing me up, I think my chances of name change will be better and the process will run a lot more smoothly.

[Jack Daniels]

women were born to be sexually passive in every way of the word

My experience with women, albeit limited, has been quite the opposite.

Well, no matter how you look at it, she ie still getting "screwed", and she may be aggressive about it, but then that s just being aggressively passive. Because thier bodies are just...made for that. But now the emotional/ mentally can be completely different and thats not what Im talking about. Mentally, she doesnt/isnt passive, but phyically, with her three holes, she is.

[Constance]

women were born to be sexually passive in every way of the word

My experience with women, albeit limited, has been quite the opposite.

Well, no matter how you look at it, she ie still getting "screwed", and she may be aggressive about it, but then that s just being aggressively passive. Because thier bodies are just...made for that. But now the emotional/ mentally can be completely different and thats not what Im talking about. Mentally, she doesnt/isnt passive, but phyically, with her three holes, she is.

I'm not trying to be a creep, I'm just trying to understand. So, does penetration equal aggression?

[Elwood]

I'm not trying to be a creep, I'm just trying to understand. So, does penetration equal aggression?

...No?

If I had the right body parts, I would consider it my expression of passion as well as lust. But no anger or aggression involved... Maybe a little rough, but not to the point of injury.