Palin needs to study the constitution

[lisagurl]

Palin: Iraq war 'a task that is from God'

This nation was founded under the principles of separation of Church and state. No Government decisions are to be made on religious grounds. This is a secular government.

To think if McCain passes in office that we would leave us with a religious leader asking God to make the decision. Forget rational thinking. This is very scary.

Posted on: September 03, 2008, 07:56:41 PMhttp://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/22380/palin-iraq-war-a-task-that-is-from-god/

[Kaitlyn]

If she'd said it was a task from Xenu, we'd think she was insane.

[Melissa-kitty]

Why vote for the lesser evil?
Vote Chthulu!

[Kaitlyn]

Another User Friendly reader, I see.

[BeverlyAnn]

Lisa, I'm not picking on you, I'm really not but you keep hitting my Political Science major buttons.

This nation was founded under the principles of separation of Church and state. No Government decisions are to be made on religious grounds. This is a secular government.

No it wasn't.  Article One of the Bill of Rights reads:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The first known actual mention of the phrase "separation of church and state" was in an 1802 letter from Thomas Jefferson to a group called the Danbury Baptists in which he wrote:
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."   After that it wasn't until 1878 that the phrase was first used by the U.S. Supreme Court.

So basically separation of church and state simply mean that the U.S. Government cannot tell you that you cannot go to church on whatever day your church deems the day to worship, they cannot establish a "state sponsored" religion that you are required to believe in and finally they cannot mandate that you attend church at all.  Nothing in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights says that decisions cannot be made according to an individuals personal beliefs.  In fact, it happens all the time in Congress.  Liberals vote in one way according to their own belief system and conservatives vote another way according to their belief system.  It still boils down to personal values.

Class dismissed and I'll shut up now. 

Beverly

[lisagurl]

Then there was Thomas Paine sort of left out of Political Science major textbooks.

Robert Ingersoll- The framers of the Constitution deliberately omitting any mention of God from the nation's founding document and instead acknowledging "We the People" as the supreme governmental authority. This did away forever with the theological idea of government.

The only freethinkers who have received their due in American history are Thomas Jefferson and James Madison, in spite of the fact that they were denigrated by their Calvinist contemporaries as atheists, heretics. and infidels.

Read 'Freethinkers'  A history of American Secularism.

[Kaitlyn]

The fact remains that the founders and early presidents were in favor of a secular state.  Look at Article 11 in the Treaty of Tripoli, signed by John Adams in 1796:

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

No one had a problem with this language at the time.

Posted on: September 04, 2008, 04:16:55 PMBesides, the founders are dead, the Constitution is just a piece of paper, and the rule of law... well, that's right out.  It's not like the system we have is the one established in the 1700s.

[BeverlyAnn]

Yes, but Lisa, you said she should read the Constitution.  Not that she should read Paine or Ingersoll.  The Treaty of Tripoli aside, nowhere in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights does it say decisions must be made on a secular basis.   

All of that aside, what I want to know about any candidate for any office is which aides do they turn to for advice and where do those aides get their information.  Those are the people who ultimately influence the decisions that are made.  A former member of this board and I were discussing this earlier today.  She wrote the transcription program that CNN uses for it's talk shows and if those transcripts aren't online very early Mondays, they start getting calls from Congressional offices because they can't prepare their briefings for their Congressperson or Senator.  Now that's really scary that they are depending on CNN for knowledge of the nation and world.


Maebh, you still got any of that J. D. I brought you?  I need a drink. 

Beverly

[lisagurl]

Yes the destruction of independent press has shot American freedom in the foot. We no longer can depend on impartial reporting. My spouse worked for UPI before they went bankrupt. The average citizen cares very little about thinking about facts and how they effect our lives, they just want to be entertained and they put their money in that pot.

[amy2003]

I don't think anybody can miss the fact that the GOP candidates seem to be driven by their religious beliefs.  That fact scares the hell out of me.  But that's just my opinion.  I want to see this country's reaction to a Muslim VP candidate who says it is the will of Allah to raise taxes.  That candidate is entitled to make decisions based on their beliefs, but I know they would be deeply criticized by all Republicans.  It's my opinion that Republicans are capable of a double standard when it comes to religion.

It's ironic, don't you think?  All across this great country our citizens are voting to ban prayer in public schools, but they vote for our supreme commander because God told them to go to war.  "God, help us, please!"

[Kate]

The average citizen cares very little about thinking about facts and how they effect our lives, they just want to be entertained and they put their money in that pot.

Sad, but true... at least for the crowd I watched during the Republican Convention last night. How shameful and sad to watch speaker after speaker actually *mocking* a presidential candidate. Not critiquing his solutions, not tearing apart his policies, but instead using nasty sarcasm and mean-spirited "humor" to demean and make fun of a respectable man (whether you agree with his policies or not) running for the highest office in the land. And all to the chants of USA! USA! as if we're watching a football game... except that football teams actually have a sense of honor and respect for their opponents.

But hey, everyone had a good time demeaning and laughing at their opponents, right?

~ Katie Marie ~

[tekla]

She is promoting an establishment of religion, just like Bush did.  It's wrong.

[Kaitlyn]

She is promoting an establishment of religion, just like Bush did.  It's wrong.

No, it's all good - she's got the Jeebus Seal of Approval.

[tekla]

Yeah, I know, her invisible friend is the real invisible friend, and everyone's else's invisible friend is just make believe.  Right.

[lisagurl]

It's ironic, don't you think?  All across this great country our citizens are voting to ban prayer in public schools, but they vote for our supreme commander because God told them to go to war.  "God, help us, please!"

Well not the exact truth. Even if the majority wanted school prayer the wall between church and state will not allow tax money to fund those schools. But the government elected officials have allowed the phrase "Under God" be in the Pledge of Allegiance, and In God we Trust on the money both a violation of the Constitution but allowed by the religious leaning Supreme Court.

[gennee]

Everyone has the right to express their beliefs, even if we disagree with what is said. Religion was a part of the founding of this country. It is also the reason that many people came here from elsewhere: so they could worship the way they please. If a person chooses not to worship, they have that right.

Gov. Palin is expressing her belief. I'm not so sure about what she said but she has a right to say what she thinks.

Gennee

[amy2003]

Even if the majority wanted school prayer the wall between church and state will not allow tax money to fund those schools. But the government elected officials have allowed the phrase "Under God" be in the Pledge of Allegiance, and In God we Trust on the money both a violation of the Constitution but allowed by the religious leaning Supreme Court.

It wasn't a matter if "the wall" not allowing it.  Public schools for years all said the lord's prayer in the morning, at least the one's I knew of did.  It wasn't till the past ten years that schools have one by one been banned from continuing prayer in school.

[Kaitlyn]

Yeah, school prayer was a given back in the day.  Also, don't forget that children performed the Nazi (Roman) salute when reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.

[bethzerosix]

the real problem isnt that that she is religious, its that she is lying about which religion she practices. the one she was referring to states ... thou shalt not commit murder, thou shalt not bare false witness, thou shalt not steal, thou SHALL LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THY SELF! 

none of those apply to the current regime, their religion or the war in Iraq.

"christians" give Christ a bad name. Christ is really cool actually.

[Kaitlyn]

But not every Christian believes what you do.  I'm sure there are lots of bits in the Bible that you'd have issues with, and other Christians single out different bits to like or hate.  You may believe in loving your neighbor as yourself, but someone who believes in putting people to the sword, young and old, men and women - they've got support in the Good Book too.  What makes one more Christian than another?