Fear

[Pica Pica]

. And if you feel instinctively and with your entire being that you are androgyne, male, or female, then that's the last word as far as I'm concerned.

Temet Nosce - Know Thyself.

I'm english, i've grown up in a society saturated in compromise. I don't think I know how to be sure about anything with my entire being. I do know myself pretty well (what with it being a lifelong obsession and all) and what i know very well, is that i distrust anything that doesn't have layers of grey and doubt.....

...And I thought after the confident (arrogant?) videos, it was time to be honest about doubts.

Posted on: October 28, 2008, 02:36:28 pmOh, and no worry Leiandra, you were just saying as you saw, as we all do.

[Sephirah]

Okay.

But, for what it's worth...

I'm english, i've grown up in a society saturated in compromise.

Same here. I'm English, too.

[Pica Pica]

i've always been surrounded by doubt then, haven't you?

[Nicky]

Oh, and no worry Leiandra, you were just saying as you saw, as we all do.

Don't mind me either Leiandra, I've been a bit snappy lately on account of not enough estrogen in the system. I just chose to read into it a certain way and I didn't have to.

Damn it, on top of everything I have to go to a crappy meeting at work right now

Chow. 

[Sephirah]

i've always been surrounded by doubt then, haven't you?

Yeah, but as far as identity is concerned, I don't let it bother me. People's opinions about me and who I am are based more on their own lives and how that colours their perception of the world. Criticism says more about the critic than the criticised. If they want to believe something, let them. It doesn't matter. It doesn't change who I am.

But then I'm more introspective than your average bear and go largely on intuition and instinct, emotion over analysis. If I allowed the opinions of other people to colour my judgement about who I am, I'd be in a mental hospital by now. Seriously.

Oh, and no worry Leiandra, you were just saying as you saw, as we all do.

Don't mind me either Leiandra, I've been a bit snappy lately on account of not enough estrogen in the system. I just chose to read into it a certain way and I didn't have to.

Damn it, on top of everything I have to go to a crappy meeting at work right now

Chow. 

*big squeezy hug*

But you are right, honey, I shouldn't assume that everyone else is the same, and thinks the same as me. For that I am sorry.

[Nero]

...And I thought after the confident (arrogant?) videos, it was time to be honest about doubts.

Well, you do put on airs. 

Posted on: October 28, 2008, 04:02:34 pm

You say that there's a feeling that this is you. Is that not enough to make your identity real, at least in terms of you as an individual?

It's enough to make it real to me as an individual, but to me as a social beast, maybe not. Which is why I'm happy and content when I lay my head on the people, but not always when I come through the door.

A reason many of us transition. We need the world to see our identity.

. And if you feel instinctively and with your entire being that you are androgyne, male, or female, then that's the last word as far as I'm concerned.

Temet Nosce - Know Thyself.

I'm english, i've grown up in a society saturated in compromise. I don't think I know how to be sure about anything with my entire being. I do know myself pretty well (what with it being a lifelong obsession and all) and what i know very well, is that i distrust anything that doesn't have layers of grey and doubt.....

...And I thought after the confident (arrogant?) videos, it was time to be honest about doubts.

Posted on: October 28, 2008, 02:36:28 pmOh, and no worry Leiandra, you were just saying as you saw, as we all do.

Grey is good. Your coming clean with this has made you more real and earned you some respect.
I'd raise a toast but I don't drink anymore.

[Jaimey]

I answered 'never', mostly because once I understand something, it becomes truth to me...I'm very decisive (and hard-headed...heh).  So even if I did have some sort of hormonal imbalance or something that caused my identity, it's still my identity.  And I wouldn't do anything to change it because I like who I am.  Even on days when I do feel particularly female (every now and again it happens...stupid hormones), I know that I'll go back to my normal self in a short time.

So even if I have some doubt, I still know, I guess is what I'm trying to say. 

[RebeccaFog]

not convinced.

[Nicky]

not convinced.

of

[Eva Marie]

I'm late to the party, but I don't see being androgyne as "bollocks" or "rubbish", etc.

There is clearly "something" going on here. We are here for a reason.

[Seshatneferw]

I'm late to the party, but I don't see being androgyne as "bollocks"

No -- although some of us would like to get rid of them, and others would like to have a pair. But you are right, the point of being androgyne is to not make them too big a deal.

There is clearly "something" going on here. We are here for a reason.

If nothing else, for diversity. That's usually a good thing, whether biological, cultural or otherwise. The way I see it, one of the cool paradoxes about us is the way we challenge the gender binary and point out some of its limitations, but at the same time also define ourselves in relation to it. Another definite plus is the ability of many of us to joke about things that are serious and fundamental to one's identity.

  Nfr

[RebeccaFog]

not convinced.

of

I'm not convinced it's all a load of nonsense.

Posted on: November 04, 2008, 10:49:52 am

I'm late to the party, but I don't see being androgyne as "bollocks" or "rubbish", etc.

There is clearly "something" going on here. We are here for a reason.

Oh. Is that what this is all about?  I thought we were discussing life in general.

I suck. I just went back and read the initial post.   I must have forgotten it as I was reading. I'm not always in the room with myself.

Posted on: November 04, 2008, 10:51:01 am

Was wondering if people ever felt that this whole androgyne/gender queer/ Non binary gender variant (Whatever words you wish to bring to the table) thing is just a load of rubbish. That any talk of non binary types is just allowing the delusions of failed men, women and transsexuals, that it's all just a bit of a pleasant fiction.

I considered that it might be rubbish but then I dropped that consideration because it doesn't leave room for why my mind stills yearns for me to be physically female.

I'm not sure a binary type goes around yearning to be the opposite sex half or most of the time.  Maybe they might stop to imagine it one time, but having it permanently stamped into the very fiber of your being is definitely something else.

As for the reason we exist, I like to think that it's because nature wants to do away with the binary. The binary is just some freakish evolutionary screw-up.

Yes, that's right. I am now saying that the nonbinaries are natural and the binaries are not. Those freaks!

[Shana A]

I considered that it might be rubbish but then I dropped that consideration because it doesn't leave room for why my mind stills yearns for me to be physically female.

I'm not sure a binary type goes around yearning to be the opposite sex half or most of the time.  Maybe they might stop to imagine it one time, but having it permanently stamped into the very fiber of your being is definitely something else.

It's amazing, they don't seem to think about it much at all. So we androgynes have to think about gender 24/7 to keep a decent average 

As for the reason we exist, I like to think that it's because nature wants to do away with the binary. The binary is just some freakish evolutionary screw-up.

Yes, that's right. I am now saying that the nonbinaries are natural and the binaries are not. Those freaks!

You rock Reebs!

Z

[RebeccaFog]

Androgyne power!

One day, the binaries will serve us as the slaves they are meant to be - removing those annoying foil wrappers off of Hershey kisses.

[tekla]

Can I put mine to work shelling the M&Ms before I eat them?

[Constance]

I've had to watch this twice before voting (I chose "Sometimes"), then read all the comments before posting my own reply.

and would it be so bad if it were rubbish? if you were just a 'failed male' as you put it?

When I was in school, the fact that I was a 'failed male' (lousy at sports, physically weak, non-competitive, passive) caused me great distress. My schoolmates and father made it clear that this was not acceptable in a male.

These days, I don't think it's so bad that I'm a so-called failed male. I'm failed in the eyes of others. But who cares? It's my eyes in this regard that's really important. Am I sucessful to my own mind?

Nero's right, Pica, that you deserve props for this. It takes courage to admit that one has fears and doubts.

I've experienced plenty of self doubt about who I am.

There are time when it seems that self-doubt is my default opinion of myself. As Echo and the Bunnymen said in the song Back of Love:

Self doubt and selfism
Were the cheapest things I ever bought

I often feel both selfish and like I have no self-esteem.

I think you really struck it right at the end pica. It doesn't really matter if its a load or not, it makes you happy.

I agree; that sums the whole thing up, it seems. My Halloween costume this year was to simply dress in my wife's clothes with a stuffed bra and a wig. It was god-awful. But, there was something joyous about going out and about cross-dressed, no matter how hideously. My wife commented that in the days leading up to Halloween, I'd been happier than she'd seen me in a while.

Why, as Leiandra, asks? Good question. I'm not entirely sure why. But, there was something about it that made me happy. And that's what matters.

When you say it could all be rubbish... by whose definition? And is that definition more important than your own?

Precisely! It's my mind and body. Who's to say how I present that to the world is rubbish? But, that doesn't change the nagging voice that sill asks, but what if they're right?

The doubt for me comes from being bombarded with the message that there are only two genders and that people who are born male are males and people that are born female are women.

This is a good point. There are those who would demand that androgynes choose one or the other and make a committment to that gender. The same if often said of bisexuals, too. With so much negativity levelled at the non-binaries, it's hard for me to not have self-doubt from time to time.

A reason many of us transition. We need the world to see our identity.

But how does an androgyne transition? On the one hand, my "transition" would entail me looking completely gender-ambiguous on the outside while keeping my current physiology (minus the body-carpet, of course). But on the other hand, I also like the gender-fluid idea of seeming at sometimes male, at sometimes female, and at sometimes "something in between."

I'm late to the party, but I don't see being androgyne as "bollocks" or "rubbish", etc.

There is clearly "something" going on here. We are here for a reason.

This really seems to help sum it up, too.

[RebeccaFog]

Can I put mine to work shelling the M&Ms before I eat them?

excellent concept. Keep them coming. We want to be prepared with our list of demeaning tasks.


I'm glad you want the M&Ms shelled before you eat them.

[femortale]

hey, pica pica. i think you are an awesome individual. you have real good points in your video about doubt. i think you realy hit the nail on the head about being a failed man. i am also a "failed man", non competitive, passive, not much into sports, or cars, ect. and not only do men dislike that about me, but i think women are very put off by it too. i know that i dont feel womanly or manly but i know that i was born with a penis. to me the whole transgender thing feels a bit foreign to me cuz ive never felt like i needed to be one or the other, although i do take estrogen for sexual reasons.

[Jaimey]

Can I put mine to work shelling the M&Ms before I eat them?

excellent concept. Keep them coming. We want to be prepared with our list of demeaning tasks.


I'm glad you want the M&Ms shelled before you eat them.

After would be both disgusting and fascinating.  Let's see if we can't get that done!  I want binaries to do my cleaning.  And perhaps feed me grapes as I lounge on a lovely sofa like thing with a couple of them fanning me...too much?

[Nero]

And perhaps feed me grapes as I lounge on a lovely sofa like thing with a couple of them fanning me...too much?

I'll volunteer for that one.