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Fear

Started by Pica Pica, October 27, 2008, 06:45:14 PM

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0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Do you sometimes fear it's all a load of nonsense?

I've never been convinced.
7 (22.6%)
Ocassionally
10 (32.3%)
Sometimes
3 (9.7%)
Often
9 (29%)
I've never been convinced.
2 (6.5%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Jaimey

Quote from: Nero on November 05, 2008, 05:21:42 PM
Quote from: Jaimey on November 05, 2008, 05:16:51 PM
And perhaps feed me grapes as I lounge on a lovely sofa like thing with a couple of them fanning me...too much?

I'll volunteer for that one.  :-*



:icon_eyebrow:
If curiosity really killed the cat, I'd already be dead. :laugh:

"How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and the strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these." GWC
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RebeccaFog

Break it up you two. Don't make me get the hose.    ::)
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Jaimey

Quote from: Rebis on November 05, 2008, 06:27:34 PM
Break it up you two. Don't make me get the hose.    ::)

For the wet tshirt contest?  ...I'm sorry.  I have a filthy, filthy mind.

We'll let you join in too!  :-*
If curiosity really killed the cat, I'd already be dead. :laugh:

"How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and the strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these." GWC
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RebeccaFog

Fine with me.


By the way, you're damned cute.    :)
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Nero

have to agree with you on that. *still waiting for costume pics*
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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RebeccaFog

are we all getting costume pics, or is this a private thing you two got going?
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Pica Pica

thirding with the cute.
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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Lokaeign

Thanks for that vid, Pica, and for starting this topic.

I put "often."  I almost put "never been convinced," but I do have the odd flash of certainty in all the questioning, interrogting, and doubt.

I'm afraid of a lot of things.  Partly like Pica I fear that I'm simply a faliure in my assigned gender:  I don't exactly present as androg, but I've never been able to conform effectively to the socially accepted female role as defined by the mainstream.  Outside of that mainstream, I've been informed ad nauseum that I have a "male" way of thinking and discoursing, and that I have access to male privige therefore.  As near as I can work out, having a "male" way of thinking revers to the fact that I value positions backed up from evidence and experience over Very Strong Feelings backed up by Germane Greer quotes.  But then the same kinds of people who have been telling me, for years, that I'm not a proper woman and am too male etc. will also tell me that I'm not an androgyne, that such a creature does not exist.  So I'm not good enough to be a Woman, but I'm not allowed to be 3rd either...

However I'm much less afraid of that mess than I am of somehow acting as an inimical force against the rights of transfolk.  My nightmare is existing as something that the cis world can grab onto as ammo against trans experience.  I fear androgynes being held up by more conservative types as freakish warnings against messing with gender roles; or else that our nonbinary gender experience will be seized on and used to dismiss the more polarised gender experience of transmen and transwomen.  The idea that just by existing I might inadvertantly undermine the rights of transpeople.  That's what really scares me and makes me want to evaporate.
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RebeccaFog

Don't worry about messing up anybody's rights. Everybody's rights start with each individual's rights. If anyone complains to you, then they are just insecure about themselves.

Probably
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Nero

Quote from: Lokaeign on November 06, 2008, 06:47:39 AM
Thanks for that vid, Pica, and for starting this topic.

I put "often."  I almost put "never been convinced," but I do have the odd flash of certainty in all the questioning, interrogting, and doubt.

I'm afraid of a lot of things.  Partly like Pica I fear that I'm simply a faliure in my assigned gender:  I don't exactly present as androg, but I've never been able to conform effectively to the socially accepted female role as defined by the mainstream.  Outside of that mainstream, I've been informed ad nauseum that I have a "male" way of thinking and discoursing, and that I have access to male privige therefore.  As near as I can work out, having a "male" way of thinking revers to the fact that I value positions backed up from evidence and experience over Very Strong Feelings backed up by Germane Greer quotes.  But then the same kinds of people who have been telling me, for years, that I'm not a proper woman and am too male etc. will also tell me that I'm not an androgyne, that such a creature does not exist.  So I'm not good enough to be a Woman, but I'm not allowed to be 3rd either...

However I'm much less afraid of that mess than I am of somehow acting as an inimical force against the rights of transfolk.  My nightmare is existing as something that the cis world can grab onto as ammo against trans experience.  I fear androgynes being held up by more conservative types as freakish warnings against messing with gender roles; or else that our nonbinary gender experience will be seized on and used to dismiss the more polarised gender experience of transmen and transwomen.  The idea that just by existing I might inadvertantly undermine the rights of transpeople.  That's what really scares me and makes me want to evaporate.

aww... no, no, NO! don't really have the words right now, just NO sweetie.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Constance

Quote from: Lokaeign on November 06, 2008, 06:47:39 AM
However I'm much less afraid of that mess than I am of somehow acting as an inimical force against the rights of transfolk.  My nightmare is existing as something that the cis world can grab onto as ammo against trans experience.  I fear androgynes being held up by more conservative types as freakish warnings against messing with gender roles; or else that our nonbinary gender experience will be seized on and used to dismiss the more polarised gender experience of transmen and transwomen.  The idea that just by existing I might inadvertantly undermine the rights of transpeople.  That's what really scares me and makes me want to evaporate.
This makes sense to me.

I've been told that as a male, specifically as a white male, I have an advantage over non-whites and non-males. It seems to me that the subtext of these messages is that my very existence does indeed interfere with the rights and success of others. It's led me to conclude more than once that I should not have survived past voting age.

So the idea that androgynes muddy the binary gender waters does seem to make sense to me. I am biologically male and therefore I am granted some kind of privelege I don't understand and never asked for. I'm also androgyne, which seems to irk people. It's like I'm sitting on the fence instead of choosing and committing to a side. Likewise for being pansexual and registered as a non-partisan voter: I'm not "choosing" a side and therefore am uncommitted. I don't understand why this is perceived as evil, but apparently that which is polarized binarily is better than that which is not.

Or, so some have tried to convince me.

Caroline

Quote from: Lokaeign on November 06, 2008, 06:47:39 AM
However I'm much less afraid of that mess than I am of somehow acting as an inimical force against the rights of transfolk.  My nightmare is existing as something that the cis world can grab onto as ammo against trans experience.  I fear androgynes being held up by more conservative types as freakish warnings against messing with gender roles; or else that our nonbinary gender experience will be seized on and used to dismiss the more polarised gender experience of transmen and transwomen.  The idea that just by existing I might inadvertantly undermine the rights of transpeople.  That's what really scares me and makes me want to evaporate.

ANY person on the trans spectrum can be held up as an example of some bigots 'arguments' against trans people.  Too gender role conforming, not gender role conforming enough, too binary, not binary, invading feminist space, not being a feminist, people can and do come up with arguments saying that all these (and more) traits are bad.  The best defence is for trans people to present to the world as the heterogeneous group that we truly are.  As long as none of us present ourselves as the one true way to be trans (or as a superior/better type of trans person) we're stronger together than apart.

Your rights and your need to express yourself are no less valid than anybody else's.  Please don't ever think you have to apologise for what you are or hide what you are because of how someone else might use and manipulate the fact of your existence.

(apologies for my wording here if you don't identify as trans)
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femortale

The less we conform to socially constructed gender roles(which is more apparent more and more every day) and the more we focus on individual rights, we will then find that this trans road is already paved, we only need to face a little adversity. Its inevitable that all this will be wholly acceptable soon anyways.
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Jaimey

Quote
Quote from: Rebis on November 05, 2008, 06:37:26 PM
Fine with me.

By the way, you're damned cute.    :)
Quote from: Nero on November 05, 2008, 06:41:36 PM
have to agree with you on that. *still waiting for costume pics*
Quote from: Pica Pica on November 06, 2008, 12:38:44 AM
thirding with the cute.

AW!!!  You all are SWEET!!!  I have one fairly decent pic from Halloween, but it's just my face.  One friend took a pic and it is BAD.  No one's seeing that one.  >:-)  I am evil. 


Quote from: Lokaeign on November 06, 2008, 06:47:39 AM
However I'm much less afraid of that mess than I am of somehow acting as an inimical force against the rights of transfolk. 

Quite the opposite!  (I'm the eternal damn optimist)  The more we gather confidence in ourselves and get out there and meet people, cisgendered people especially, the more they will understand that deep down, we're all the same.  We want the same things and we deserve the same things.  People fear the unknown, so the more 'known' we are, the less there is to fear.  ...Well, if you can get them to open their wee little minds.
If curiosity really killed the cat, I'd already be dead. :laugh:

"How far you go in life depends on you being tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant of the weak and the strong. Because someday in life you will have been all of these." GWC
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Lokaeign

Quote from: Shades O'Grey on November 06, 2008, 10:03:33 AM
Quote from: Lokaeign on November 06, 2008, 06:47:39 AM
However I'm much less afraid of that mess than I am of somehow acting as an inimical force against the rights of transfolk.  My nightmare is existing as something that the cis world can grab onto as ammo against trans experience.  I fear androgynes being held up by more conservative types as freakish warnings against messing with gender roles; or else that our nonbinary gender experience will be seized on and used to dismiss the more polarised gender experience of transmen and transwomen.  The idea that just by existing I might inadvertantly undermine the rights of transpeople.  That's what really scares me and makes me want to evaporate.

I've been told that as a male, specifically as a white male, I have an advantage over non-whites and non-males. It seems to me that the subtext of these messages is that my very existence does indeed interfere with the rights and success of others. It's led me to conclude more than once that I should not have survived past voting age.

I don't have so much difficulty with the idea that I have certain kinds of privilege in society.  I'm aware that I have white privilege, for example.  I'm  aware that I have cis privilege--otherwise I'd find it a whole lot easier to dress and present in ways that suit me, rather than feeling the need to femme down for jobhunting etc.  I didn't create that privilege, therefore it is not rational for me to feel guilt over it.  Responsibility, yeah, but that's not the same as guilt--guilt is passive, responsibility is constructive.  My privileges don't mean that by existing I'm detracting from someone else--they mean that I have a responsibility to interrogate them and do what I can to help level the playing-field.  It's not awareness of privilege that makes me feel like I should not be, but fear of the appropriation of my being by other privileged people.
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RebeccaFog

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6thsomatic

Quote from: Rebis on November 07, 2008, 04:08:05 PM

Do not fear.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
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Constance

Quote from: 6thsomatic on November 07, 2008, 04:41:23 PM
Quote from: Rebis on November 07, 2008, 04:08:05 PM

Do not fear.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
Excellent: your Bene Geneserit training is progressing well.

Pica Pica

fear's useful, a survival tool par excellence. 
'For the circle may be squared with rising and swelling.' Kit Smart
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Nero

Quote from: Pica Pica on November 08, 2008, 12:49:18 AM
fear's useful, a survival tool par excellence. 

a tool you have in spades.  :)
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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