Got thrown for a loop today

[Windrider]

Today was our second couples session and I got thrown for a loop. *sigh* Our therapist asked me/us about how we felt about hormones. I wasn't exactly expecting this question. Dani wasn't either but of course, she's happy about it. Me, I'm not so sure. I was ready for the "next" step...but this wasn't the "next" step I had in mind. We have some talking to do, obviously, but I'm really just feeling bewildered right now. There's around a 4 month waiting list for the endocrinologist, so it won't be immediate, but... Dani's also said that she won't start them until I'm ready, but how do I get ready? Our therapist also suggested we see the endo together too, which sounds like a good idea to me.

Any advice?

WR

[Just Mandy]

We have some talking to do, obviously, but I'm really just feeling bewildered right now. There's around a 4 month waiting list for the endocrinologist, so it won't be immediate, but... Dani's also said that she won't start them until I'm ready, but how do I get ready?

Sorry to jump in here, I know you are looking for input from other SO's. But the first thing that comes to mind is
to understand that changes are not quick and not dramatic. You will have time, really a lot of time, after she
starts HRT to get used to the idea. Other than a few physical changes I'm still the same person I was and expect
that to hold true forever. I am more emotional but thats a good thing Yes she will develop breasts and a more feminine
shape and face, but if you don't know it's happening it's hard to see the changes.

Your REALLY great for being here (and there for Dani)... she is one lucky girl

Amanda

[Nicky]

Today was our second couples session and I got thrown for a loop. *sigh* Our therapist asked me/us about how we felt about hormones. I wasn't exactly expecting this question. Dani wasn't either but of course, she's happy about it. Me, I'm not so sure. I was ready for the "next" step...but this wasn't the "next" step I had in mind. We have some talking to do, obviously, but I'm really just feeling bewildered right now. There's around a 4 month waiting list for the endocrinologist, so it won't be immediate, but... Dani's also said that she won't start them until I'm ready, but how do I get ready? Our therapist also suggested we see the endo together too, which sounds like a good idea to me.

Any advice?

WR

What was your next step? Perhaps you should approach that first before thinking about hormones?

[TamTam]

Yes, what was the next step you had in mind? Is there any particular reason that the thought of her starting hormones makes you feel a little jumpy, or is it just happening quicker than you originally expected?

[Windrider]

The "step" I had been prepared for was Dani starting to experiment with dressing, makeup, etc. Unfortunately, that "step" has been delayed because we're still unsure if both of our jobs will be long term enough for us to commit to a apartment lease or mortgage. So, we're still living with Dani's parents (who do not know) which makes it a bit tough to accumulate women's clothing for her and for her to experiment. It's up in the air as to when we'll be able to move out, most likely not until sometime next year (perhaps spring...)

But apparently I don't get consulted on what I feel comfortable with and/or the majority wins. The therapist just went from "you need to schedule some couple time" to "OK, so when can we start the magic happy cure-all pills?" I've been given a month to "decide" if I'm ready for this. I don't think I get to "decide" anything really. Dani wants her magic happy cure-all pills for "clarity" and the therapist will give them to her.

I'd just like to know where my "clarity" pills are. I think I could use them more.

WR

[Windrider]

Kiera: No we haven't explored that aspect already. Dani spent nearly 8 years in denial and finally came to terms with that she must transition this past summer (June-July-ish). And in that period, we were in the process of relocating to another state. And no, I don't think she (or we) need a therapist's "approval" to start that. You all asked what I felt ready for as the next step. I told you. But everyone seems to think the magic happy cure-all pills are next, so I guess I was wrong.

Heck, the therapist even thinks that *people won't notice* when Dani suddenly sprouts breasts and that she looks different! I'm sorry, but I really don't think people are all that dumb or oblivious. No mentions were made of OK, once the changes start happening, how do we handle work, family, etc. I'm a little more concerned about how Dani will handle coming out at work and to family and don't think the time to plan is when you can't hide anymore. But I suppose I'm wrong there too.

So I guess that no one can answer how they handled the changes or offer any advice. I just have to hang of and pray things "work out". I'm beginning to wonder why I'm even bothering to try being "accepting" when I'm being told I just have to.

WR

[TamTam]

Hey, it's perfectly understandable the way you feel.  I'm kinda thinking that maybe it's going a little too fast just because of the fact she won't be able to live like herself on the hormones, everything will have to be so hidden.  I'd think it'd be better to start all of this after you two are moved out and on your own and don't have to hide everything so meticulously.

I personally have not actually gone through this yet, and when I do it'll be under very different circumstances.. so I'm sorry I can't offer any first-hand advice. I'd just say, talk to her about this very deeply.  If she said before that it's on your schedule, then believe her and let her know your concerns.  Not just that you aren't ready, but why you aren't ready, and see what she says.  One step at a time.   Who cares what kind of schedule the therapist wants?  The therapist isn't the important one here, you and Dani are, you and Dani make the decision.

[Just Mandy]

Windrider,


First.... based on your living arrangement I think Dani should consider not starting HRT until you have
a place of your own... that just makes sense regardless of the pressure she feels to get started. 

It sounds like to me that the therapist is rushing into this and doing what ever Dani wants. I have heard this
from other girls as well... basically that GID is self diagnosed and the therapist is just there to get them
to the other side by dotting the i's and crossing the t's on the paper work. Others may have better idea's
here but I would think you may need to talk to the therapist one on one to see clearly what their thinking is. I know
that all therapists are not like this.... but I've heard it too many times now.

When I started HRT last year I felt like I needed it done now, in the shortest possible time. One day
I'm a guy, the next day I'm Amanda. I felt time pressure becuase I had waited and denied for so long. Since then
I realize this is a LONG term process and I've slowed things down a lot. It's possible that Dani will do the same thing.
But I would not count on that. Starting HRT is a big step and the fact is if you are TS it is VERY hard to stop if things
get crazy. It's hard to stop HRT and it's hard to stop doing all the things that you felt like you always needed to do.

Heck, the therapist even thinks that *people won't notice* when Dani suddenly sprouts breasts and that she looks different! I'm sorry, but I really don't think people are all that dumb or oblivious. No mentions were made of OK, once the changes start happening, how do we handle work, family, etc. I'm a little more concerned about how Dani will handle coming out at work and to family and don't think the time to plan is when you can't hide anymore. But I suppose I'm wrong there too.

Yea... they really are that oblivious. There are exceptions but I can't stress enough that the changes will not be THAT
dramatic that they cannot be hidden for at least a year. I think the stats are that most girls develop A cup, maybe B cup
breasts after several years. I think that most here will tell you they were still around an A at one year. No Dani will not be
able to go topless at the pool after 6 months, but I think breasts are easily hidden for at least a year if not longer. A tight
sports bra can flatten things out quite a bit. If Dani is bigger it might even be easier to hide. If she is smaller it might
be harder to hide, I know for me A cup is about all I can hide on my 150lbs.

Facial changes up to a year are no more drastic than what someone would see after some weight gain. The face is softer
and rounder and the skin is smoother. The eye area for many is a big change... hard to describe but they just
become more feminine. Some here will tell you they could not pass as male after six months but I think that
is also the exception. But keep in mind that these changes are for the most part slow and over a long time so
people tend not to notice that day to day.

And no, you are clearly not wrong about planning coming out at work, they PERFECT way to do it is to
do that prior to HRT. As you know, there is very little in life that is perfect and everything is a compromise. But
I think Dani needs to listen to what you have to say and respect your needs as you go along. She is lucky you
are there at this point and she needs to realize than in my opinion.

We are here to listen, and I hear your frustrations. Please keep posting and at least let us try to explain what
we all feel and go through from this side and maybe that will help.

Amanda

[Cyndigurl45]

One thing to remember sweetie is Dani not gonna sprout breast over night her changes are going to be so gradual you might not notice at first, sorta like having a dog (sorry for the dog analagy but I'm a dog girl) as your puppy grows you hardly notice and yor neighbors are the same never noticed, but some friends might have seen your new puppy then visit a few months later, they ask where did that horse come from where's the puppy, does that makeany sense? your not gonna notice much nor your neighbors and of course your average Joe didn't know there was anything to notice, I suspect that's why most people don't care

[Windrider]

Thanks everyone for your help I'm going to apologize for being angry. I wasn't directing it at anyone here (and I'm sorry if anyone took it that way.) Right now I'm feeling pressured to have an answer by Dec 5, which is our next appointment.

I really am not trying to say no here. I understand that Dani *needs* hormones for a variety of reasons and I do want her to get them. I'm just not sure that now is the right time. OK, there's a 4 month waiting list, that puts us around April-May for an appointment, depending on the endo's schedule. That would coincide with the end of Dani's probation period as well, and Dani had wanted to wait until after that period anyhow. OK, so far things are going great for her. For the record, we're not too worried about Dani's job in regards to transition. Her employer has had at least 2, if not more, people transition and specifically includes "gender identity" in their non-discrimination policy.

However, April/May would be six months for me at my job. The job was listed as "1 year contract", no mention of a possibility of renewal or contract-to-hire. It's very possible that in April I will be told I won't have a job at the end of the contract. What happens then in regards to hormones? It's not like you can stop.

*sigh* I really don't like so many variables being up in the air. I think if the job situation was more stable it wouldn't be so bad. Dani and I still need to talk more, too.

Thanks everyone

WR

[Just Mandy]

No need to apologize this is the hardest thing most couples can endure.

Dani and I still need to talk more, too.

Yep

Hang in there

Amanda

[Sarah Louise]

Uncertainties are a fact of life.  If you always put things on hold because you don't know what is going to happen in six months, you will never more forward.

Having Dani start hormones is a scary thing, each step forward makes this more real and more permenant.

Take solice in the fact that outward signs will not appear for a long time, breasts don't grow overnight.

Good luck.

Sarah L.

[pennyjane]

just an observation from the hrt'ers perspective.  although my annie was good with hrt before i came to terms, i was very skeptical of her easiness with it all.  after all, she's a heterosexual woman and i was terrified that one night she might roll over in bed, grab a handful of boobie and freak out.  i don't mean to make it sound trite...it certainly wasn't to me.

i was so concerned that i wanted some proof beyond her words that she wouldn't.  i devised a plan.  as silly as it seems i went out and bought me a waterbra....that is a bra with liquid in the cups that simulates real breasts.  i began wearing it to bed at night.  i told annie the truth about it, i said i wanted us to get a feel <pardon the pun> for it before we had to face it on a more permanent level.  she just giggled at me and reassured me verbally that it was fine with her.

eventually it did happen.  annie rolled over, her arm slid right up my tummy 'till her hand landed right on my bracup.  i froze.  i froze stiff.  one of those moments of truth.  annie didn't wake up right away, but i guess at some point when you are laying in bed with a piece of wood it begins to feel strange.  she woke, asked me what was wrong, moved her hand away and that was that.

"nothing, nighty nite."

[Kate]

Heck, the therapist even thinks that *people won't notice*...

If she's going into a transition with the intention of hiding the changes it brings... that might be a sign to reconsider her "readiness" and acceptance of the responsibility of it's consequences.

Kate

[Susan]

I know the temptation is there for the tg folks but please as much as possible let the Significant others talk to each other without adding without our input unless we are specifically asked for our views. Thanks!

[Windrider]

I think I may have hit on something while chatting with Emelye, SarahLouise and Gabrielle yesterday evening.

A little back story first: I had some serious medical issues associated with my monthly "friend" going all the way back to when it started when I was 13. The problems were so bad I literally lived in fear of "that time of the month". (I'm not trying to be TMI here, but this is important to my reasoning later.)

Fast forward a few years, and I'm pretty convinced I have PCOS (I just can't get a doctor's diagnosis, which is not uncommon if you're not trying to have a baby.) Anyhow, what I'm getting to is that birth control pills addressed a *lot* of my symptoms, especially the ones I had at "that time of the month." I still get a surge of terror if I try to imagine what life would be like without birth control.

That's when my little voice piped up and said (you know the one - the one that tells you stuff you don't want to hear), "how is that different than Dani going on hormones?" *sigh* Why is that little voice always right?

I won't pretend BC pills gave me any kind of clarity, but they did free me from the near paralyzing terror, pain and distress I lived with every month for almost 11 years. How different is that from HRT which would free Dani from the distress of living in the wrong body? I know the analogy isn't perfect, but it's as close as I can get.

It's amazing how one thought can change an outlook, isn't it?

We talked some more last night and we made some progress. I'm still not 100% OK with HRT yet, but I can at least discuss it without turning into a soggy mess, which is how I measure my progress. So progress has been made there. Dani also pointed out a couple of things. Our therapist didn't say she was going to write a letter yet, just that she wanted us to start talking about HRT. And that perhaps since I'm OK with a lot of other aspects of transition, that I was prepared for this too. Dani also pointed out that would there have been any difference in the discussion had we had it next year? *sigh* I had to admit that there probably wouldn't be much difference...darn that little voice again! Dani doesn't think the Dec 5 date is a deadline for a decision, but I still feel rushed on it. Maybe that will change as I continue to think about it and we continue to talk.

Dani would also like me to pass along her thanks to everyone who told me to believe her when she said HRT would happen when I'm ready

We also separated a few other issues out of Tuesday's session. One is that the therapist is worried that I/we don't have a support network of friends here. This irritates me because Dani's only been here since May and I've only been here since August. Most of that time has been spent settling in, working/looking for jobs, and dealing with trying to fix our semi-broken relationship. Not to mention that Dani and I both have the same problem making friends. We don't make friends easily and a lot of our childhood experiences have shown us that we often can't rely on other people - not even family. We're not sure how to resolve this one. I feel like I'm a little kid being told to "go make friends." Dani, I know, has been extremely busy with a big project at work and my new job is Tues-Sat 3-11pm, so I really don't have any social time. And what little time Dani and I do have free, the therapist strongly suggested that we spend it doing stuff together (not arguing there!) I suppose that "together" time doesn't have to be exclusively us, but when you only have Sunday and Monday evenings, it's kind of hard to meet other people. Most of our friends are on-line. In fact the only people we know here in real life are people we've met on line first. I suppose we'll just have to see.

I want to thank everyone again for their support, advice, ideas, thoughts and for being here for me to bounce ideas off of and just vent. I appreciate you all because you make me think, make sure I'm not over-reacting, and help me work things out for myself.



WR

[TamTam]

::hugs::  That's great to hear, WR.

Y'know, I think online friends can be just as good as 'real life' friends, for what it's worth. Your therapist might disagree, but hey.. we're all just people, whether it's the internet or not..

[Windrider]

After days of discussion here, online and with Dani, I have made my peace with HRT. When we next see the therapist in December, we will ask for her to setup the endo appointment.

What finally decided me was the thought that how could I stand in the way of something that will make Dani feel better...and perhaps help with her feeling somewhat depressed/unmotivated to do things. I want my sweetie to be happy.

Thanks again for everyone's input and advice!

WR

[mtfbuckeye]

Windrider,
Dani is very lucky to have you.. I hope my wife and I reach the point you guys are at someday.