Money

[Omika]

Seriously.  Money.

I mean, I hear in the paper that those two-faced twits who got prop 8 passed raised over $78 million to do so.  What the effing hell, dude.  For reals.  Just skim a little top off of that for me, the broke college student, and help me be pretty.  You won't even notice it's gone.

So, here's my question.  I want to ask the post-op women out here.

How?  How does one get that kind of money up front for a surgeon?  Maybe it's impossible for me to fathom because I currently make little more than a grand a month working at your standard college job, but really.  Seriously?  Thirty-something thousand dollars?  All at once?  How is that done?  What bank would ever loan someone a personal loan of that magnitude?  I should ask my bank next time I'm there.  I should plop myself down and say "I need forty-thousand dollars.  Tell me how to get it."

Any ideas, here?  I want my damn face.  I know it's going to be g-g-g-g-g-gorgeous.  I can't wait anymore, it's like christmas eve and I'm a five year old again.  TELL ME THE SECRETS.

[Nero]

why do you want surgery? you look good! 

[Omika]

why do you want surgery? you look good! 

Yes I do.  For a TG woman.

That's like saying "you look good for being ugly!"



See?

[vanna]

Hunny,
Unfortunately you have to accept that some things need to be patient and you save for little by little, extra jobs living frugally and putting any single dime aside to get your dreams.

There's also finance. I have a savings account just for anything i need, my home is full of money saving pots i drop every spare coin in. I have a ways to go still but it will surprise you how much you can achieve.

[Omika]

Hunny,
Unfortunately you have to accept that some things need to be patient and you save for little by little, extra jobs living frugally and putting any single dime aside to get your dreams.

There's also finance. I have a savings account just for FFS and GRS, my home is full of money saving pots i drop every spare coin in. I have a ways to go still but it will surprise you how much you can achieve.

I could see myself doing that, if I wasn't enrolled in school.  Right now all my extra money goes towards my weekly electro treatments, which is sort of preliminary to either surgery I need to get.  I suppose I am doing just what you suggested already.

I place a high value on education though. 

[Nero]

why do you want surgery? you look good! 

Yes I do.  For a TG woman.

That's like saying "you look good for being ugly!"



See?

oh god, i didn't mean it like that! you look good for a woman. period. you've got wonderfully strong, striking features. be a shame to change your face. just my opinion...

[vanna]

yes hun and education will give you better prospects,

Also what your paying out on now is temporary in the scheme of things and that money then becomes available for something else. I love to think if i havent got it i didnt miss it and when i do get money back like electro for instance it goes in the bank.

I would rather get booted on the street than touch my savings, it sounds like your already on the right track though.

[Omika]

why do you want surgery? you look good! 

Yes I do.  For a TG woman.

That's like saying "you look good for being ugly!"



See?

oh god, i didn't mean it like that! you look good for a woman. period. you've got wonderfully strong, striking features. be a shame to change your face. just my opinion...

I hear this a lot from people and I just don't know what it is about my face that turns me off so much.  I feel like there's just something there that needs to be tweaked...  something that will pull it all together.  I don't know what, though!  It's killing me!

Also, thanks Vanna.  I like to think I'm on the right track as well.  Now if I can just get my lazy ass to study for this upcoming exam, I'll be all set. 

[Nero]

maybe you see it as 'male' or something? maybe you're seeing and picking it apart looking for maleness?

[Omika]

maybe you see it as 'male' or something? maybe you're seeing and picking it apart looking for maleness?

I think you're right.  I'm obsessive about it, and I don't just do it to myself, I do it to every single woman I see.  I find myself scrutinizing their brow and their chin and everything, comparing it to my own and thinking and judging, etc.  It consumes so much of my thoughts when I'm out in public.

[tinkerbell]

How?  By cashing or borrowing from 401K accounts, by working two or three jobs, by working extensive (sometimes 14+) hours daily and taking advantage of the OT pay, by living at home and saving most of what you earn, by touching the money you're carefully putting into a savings account for your retirement date (considering that there will not be Social Security Benefits when some of us retire in another thirty five or more years).

But the most important thing to remember is that all of this takes time and careful planning!

tink

[Nigella]

maybe you see it as 'male' or something? maybe you're seeing and picking it apart looking for maleness?

Nero, I think you are right. People say to me I don't need FFS but I think I do. I too look at my face and pick it to pieces. Some days I think yea its not bad and other days I wake up and say OMG what was I thinking (that I could pass).

I think we all are like that to some degree or other.

If you look at GG's you also get a wide verity and some I have wondered if they were trans and turned out to be GG's. I think we need to begin to live our lives instead of focussing on the negatives of our looks which hold us back and gives us lack of confidence.

hugs

Stardust

[Buffy]

Well I did get a loan (which amounted to $28,000),which I paid back over 5 years. I wasn't overly truthfull on the application form to the bank, but said it was for a new car / holiday (which was a trip to Thailand). However in the current financial banking crisis, this may not be so easy.

I had the same issues, I couldnt look in the mirror and see something that looked male starring back at me so FFS was important, even more so than SRS. It truely is a personal thing, but to me it took my pass rate to 100%,which was well worth the money.

Criticism? ... well many of my GG friends have cosmetic sugery to in their opinion improve how they look,improve their confidence and we are no different, ours also comes with a peace of mind and results that can make integration easier as invariably the first thing anyone looks at is your face,

Rebecca

[MeghanAndrews]

So, here's my question.  I want to ask the post-op women out here.

How?  How does one get that kind of money up front for a surgeon?  Seriously?  Thirty-something thousand dollars?  All at once?  How is that done?  What bank would ever loan someone a personal loan of that magnitude? Any ideas, here?

Ok, you asked, I'll give you my answer. I made a lot of money as I got older. You are a broke college kid. With the internet and your resources, you are really coming out at an age when I was just graduating college, getting married and figuring out how to make my way as a guy in the world when I knew I was a girl. Transition, to me, wasn't possible. So I spent those college and post-college years working hard to build a career and make a lot of money. I did. I saved some of it. By the time I was 38, I had a decent amount of money in my retirement account and some cash saved ($175K and $100K). I gave some to my ex, I used some to live while I transitioned, I got $38K worth of FFS (including $5K for aftercare housing and care). I don't have much $ left but I have a new life.

I can't honestly tell you that if I could go back again that I would do it the same way but I don't know. It's the age old trans questions...transition in your teens, risk getting thrown out, get on hrt and have a chance at not going insane by living in denial for many years or transition in your 30's after you've built a career and a small nest egg for yourself at the risk of driving yourself crazy by living with knowing it's not real.

Neither one, to me, is right or wrong. Decide what you will. What if you knew that if you threw yourself into your work, became a computer programmer and hugely successful hoarding every dime for transition that when you were 35 you'd have $200K in cash sitting there for you, guaranteed. Would that make you wait? Before you say yes, think about it. You are taking the knowledge and pain you feel RIGHT now and basically having to live that way for like what, 10-15 years? It isn't easy. AND you have to be the best at what you do. I'm not talking $60K a year, I'm talking you put yourself into your career and really thrive, saving a lot of $ quick. What would you do?

If you transition NOW and knew that in the next 20 years you would never make less than $30K a year, wouldn't be able to afford FFS or SRS or anything else but at least you knew who you were and didn't live in denial, would you do it? You'd look like you do right now, you'd just age. HRT would soften your features a little, but you know, you wouldn't change too, too much.

What decision would you make? It's not an easy decision. Practically speaking, no bank, especially in this tight credit market is going to give a broke college kid more than a few hundred $ in a loan. These days, they might even want collateral on that! I think it would be wise to focus on your schoolwork, get good grades, try to find a job making decent money (I don't want to define that, but let's call it a job where you can save $1,000+ a month net after taxes. SAVE SAVE SAVE and LIVE LIKE A PAUPER!!!! Pay cheap rent, don't eat out, etc. Cindi Jones had some good tips in the forums about saving $ for transition. If you really want surgeries, saving has to be THE...MOST...IMPORTANT...THING in your life. It has to be your life's purpose.

I know it's going to be g-g-g-g-g-gorgeous.  I can't wait anymore, it's like christmas eve and I'm a five year old again.  TELL ME THE SECRETS.

Ok, the other thing, really try to get your FFS expectations in line. Gorgeous is really pushing it. Why would I say that? Well, if you set the bar that high and you watch after surgery and you wait and wait and wait and you never see that gorgeous girl, what do you do with that? Where do you put that? I've known some delusional transwoman who are convinced that FFS made them the bee's knee's, the cat's meow, but in reality, it didn't. I've also known transwomen who had really low expectations and their work turned out really, really nice. I guess I'm a big advocate of keeping low expectations of surgery so that you aren't disappointed. Same thing for SRS right? "OMG, I'm going to be orgasmic, it'll be great!" I heard one woman exclaim. "What if you can't orgasm and you have 2" of depth with a big, deep skin graft on your thigh?" 'OMG, that'll never happen!" But what if it did? Was she prepared for it? No way! Just stay realistic Blair. Don't set the bar so high on something like FFS that you are disappointed with the results, k? Just be safe!

And secrets? I don't think there are secrets. Hard work, period. It's not an easy thing to be in a career in this economic environment that really pays well. It's not an easy time to transition. Those are my thoughts, sorry I was so long-winded, Meghan
Post Merge: January 23, 2009, 11:23:05 PM

People say to me I don't need FFS but I think I do. I too look at my face and pick it to pieces. Some days I think yea its not bad and other days I wake up and say OMG what was I thinking (that I could pass).
Stardust

Just another point really quick. I knew I was going to get FFS before I ever posted a question to anyone about it. I never posted a "Look at me, do you think I should get FFS done?" picture of myself because I know the supportive trans community. Nobody will say yes and I would never expect them to. I wouldn't say it either. I tell people "don't ask me if you pass, ask the check out guy at the grocery store, ask the random strangers that see you on the streets, ask that banking clerk when you had to raise your voice because they couldn't hear you through the glass. I think the decision for FFS is an extremely personal one.

You could tell someone until you were blue in the face that someone didn't need FFS and if they felt they did, they'd get it done. Vice versa, you could think "wow, she could really use some facial work" and the person would swear they are living stealth and are never clocked. Transition is such a very personal journey, just remember that. It's what YOU decide you need. It's how YOU interpret your environment.

And I LOVE my community, especially Susan's, but let's be honest. If I would have posted pics before surgery and asked "I'm really bummed out, I can't handle it, do you all think I need FFS, I feel ugly" most of the replies would have been positive and reassuring. I mean that's why I LOVE it hear. We are so supportive and always lending support to each other. I guess I just never let other peoples' voice get louder than mine through transition. If I thought something was best for me, I did it. I figure it's my journey and mine alone. My friends and supporters are kind of like my cheerleaders and my confidantes but I am not going to let them make major decisions for me. I'd feel really lost if I did.

Lol, ok, wow, two long posts from me, jeeeez. Sorry, but I got on a roll, lol. Please, continue Meghan

[sarahb]

I recently had my FFS and I learned more than I ever could have thought about managing finances just by the pure fact that it had become the top priority in my life. So, now that I had it as my priority what now? How do I actually get there?

Strict management and budgeting. Period.

I know you hear it all the time how the little things add up, but they really, truly do. If you eat out, stop. If you get a morning coffee, stop. If you go out for drinks every weekend, stop. If this is a top priority than you will have to pretty much put a halt to most other things in your life to get there, especially on a college income. Also, it may seem like going backwards, but if you have credit card debt, instead of putting your money into savings for FFS, put it into your credit card debt to stop the incurring interest which also adds up to a lot of money that could be going toward your actual savings. If you have credit card debt, then anything you put in your savings, unless it substantially outweighs the interest being incurred on your debt, is just being saved to pay interest at some point. Paying off any debt first does two things. First, it stops interest incurring that takes your hard-earned money. But more importantly, it gets you out of debt. Once you're out of debt, then every single penny that you get that doesn't absolutely have to go to things like rent or car payments can be saved.

Also, look at everything you spend money on right now and look at how it can be reduced or eliminated. If you go shopping for food every weekend, try cutting it down to every other week and buy the cheaper brands of everything. This can save hundreds of dollars a month alone. I actually started eating nothing but Cup-o-Noodle for the last 2 months just to save the average $300/month I spent on groceries. You can get 2 6-packs for $5. That usually lasts me a week, one in the morning, one at night. So instead of spending $300/month, I now only spend $20/month on groceries. Yeah, it sounds bad, but as far as my priorities went I could live on Cup-o-Noodle for a couple months in exchange for FFS, so there was another $300 extra in the savings a month. I also (reluctantly) started not going out with friends as much. Although your social life may be diminished, it all comes back down to priorities. This saved me a couple hundred a month on the money I spent on alcohol and entrance fees and things like that, and moreover, on the gas consumed to get there. This is another area you can save. If you can cut down on driving, then you cut down on the amount you spend on gas. There are so many ways to save money on those little things that you could be able to save several hundreds a month and be there in no time.

If that still isn't enough, then you may need to look into getting a second job and put all that extra money into your savings. Now I know I said debt is bad, but if you just can't save that much money in a reasonable amount of time for you then a loan may be an option. Yes, in these dark economic days credit is short and hard to find, but I find that the medical creditors tend to be more lenient and higher paying. If you can get a co-signer like a parent with good credit then I think getting at least $10K, if not more, from a medically-specialized financier is possible. Take CareCredit for example. That's one creditor that Dr. O (who I went to) accepts and they have seemed to be extremely easy to get financing from.

These are all options on your plate and as far as the budgeting and management, that will be able to help you out in the long run anyways so is two-fold. You can get there, but it will take hard work and making sure that you actually stick to whatever plan and budget you can come up with, because finding all these savings is one thing, but sticking to them is another.

Good luck and remember, budget, save, and stick with it

[mmelny]

I recently had my FFS and I learned more than I ever could have thought about managing finances just by the pure fact that it had become the top priority in my life. So, now that I had it as my priority what now? How do I actually get there?

Congratulations Sarah on your recent FFS, happy healing to you!   Do you have an online journal or blog describing your experience?  Sorry if that's being too nosy. 

I have nothing to top Sarah and Meghan's tips on affording FFS, very wise and inspiring words for those seeking to save the funds for FFS.  It's ridiculously expensive.   I'm using the money that I built up in equity in my (former) house to have this surgery.  Now I'm a renter, and probably a few years away from having the money to put down on another house (if I ever choose to own one again) , but I know that I will have no regrets with my decision to do these procedures.

Sometimes I feel bad when I'm with TG friends that can't afford the surgery.  I try to minimize talking about it, I almost feel guilty that I am in a position to do this.  But then I remember that for most of my life I would not have been in a position to do this.   Hard work and saving allowed me to do this, no one gave me the funds for this, I earned it, one dollar at a time.   When they add the "Melan Wing" onto Boston Medical Center, my name better be on a plaque *giggles*.

*huggs*,
Melan

 

[Laura Eva B]

Think Meghan has said it all and pretty much closed the subject ...

Like many in my age bracket in this group, transition was not a reality when I was college age (1970's, no internet, no support groups, no Thai surgeons, etc.) ... so inertia led me into a decent professional job and I "transitioned" decades later with home paid for and around $500k in the bank. 

Not hard work at all but something I might have struggled to achieve if I were young and transitioning now, as transition can still mess up your prospects ... though in the UK at least even that is changing.

But I'd willingly give up every penny / cent of my savings to turn back the clock and be able to transition at the age of 20 ... $17,000 dollars for every "lost" year ...

And sure I can afford the best FFS surgeon in the world, but its surgery which really scares me way, way more than SRS ever did, at worst it could disfigure me, quite possibly leave my face feeling permanently numb, so at the moment all FFS thoughts are on hold. 

I feel I pass well enough, and that maybe all I will need is a rejuvenating facelift ?

Laura x

[lacitychick21]

Just another point really quick.

This is why I love you.

-- succinct.

[tekla]

This is why I love you.

-- succinct.

Reminds me of a friend of mine, when she gets going, we could go out for pizza and make it back before she gets done.

[lacitychick21]

If you eat out, stop. If you get a morning coffee, stop. If you go out for drinks every weekend, stop. ... Also, look at everything you spend money on right now and look at how it can be reduced or eliminated. If you go shopping for food every weekend, try cutting it down to every other week and buy the cheaper brands of everything.

I see. Great advise.

Now, where do fancy cars with fancy, proximity sensitive, remote-start features and plush red leather factor into all this?

innocently just curious.