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what is femininity

Started by solosusan, November 16, 2008, 01:40:43 PM

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solosusan

I've posted a couple of entries with my thoughts on gender roles and how I want to re-write the ones for women.  I'm getting responses in general that say I don't like femininity or, or words to the effect of that.  In fact I am very feminine  - I've given birth three times and nursed those children plus two more I adopted.  I am a sweet person who enjoys taking care of people and waiting on them in its proper place.  I enjoy nature shows, children's books, and pretty things.  One of the jokes about me (please forgive) is that I am a ->-bleeped-<-got.  I like lots of colours in my house and have crystals hanging up, much to the amusement of those who know me in more masculine scenes.  I can be any way I want - I can be very aggressive and will approach guys I work with that way.  I'm physically fit, tall and make sure I present myself as a warrior when it behooves me.  I will dominate any time I want.  Anything is ok with me if it's truly biological or an improvement on same.  But I categorically reject what most people call normal or feminine - the adopting of characteristics that used to belong to men 'pretending' to be women.  Make-up was invented by men for the use of pretending to be women.  High heels have a most fascinating background too - in ancient times dislocating one leg was a sacred ritual performed on a king - Jesus went through this sacred ritual - he was not lamed by the crowd or by accident, but by a 'laming ritual.'   After this ritual the king wore a high heeled shoe on one foot called a 'buskin.' This high heel was transfered to women, along with make up, as women inexplicably to me, began to play the role of 'wanna be' men.  This should explain to many of you why men have such a strange contempt for women with their make-up off, or out of high heels - when they then see her as a 'castrated man' without all the accoutrement (mirrors with lights all around, make-up, special clothes to refigure the body, extreme weight loss and so on) of an actress. In the minds of a male in this culture, women are no more than men without a penis.  This conforms to French deconstructionist theory that men derive their great sex drive from being empowered by her 'lack.'  I hope the participants in this forum will stop and try to find out what is in fact biological before they take it for granted.  On my part, I'm 63, have had four girls and four boys - have been a parent for over 40 years, have taken care of and known well hundreds of boys and girls, and have known dozens of families intimately.   I have never seen a single female remotely like what many of you think is 'normal' when they are raised with full personhood and rights.  Maybe some of you have never known of any females raised that well.  I would not let that stop you from wondering why make-up and high heels are the accoutrement of the female when we're already females -  sure a man would love those things if he wanted to play 'female.'   My point is, I am not 'playing' female I am one.  I have NO objection to anyone playing female however, that's not my point - just that it sure is odd how constantly, obsessively and expensively women approach just being women much of the time.  Actually as I'm writing this it occurs to me females really are playing a role as a female not being one - must be part of the conspiracy :)  That would explain how hard it is for folks to realize what I learned with my daughters - that 'real' females are nothing like societal ones.  Nothing. 
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Chrissty

Hi solosusan,

What you have to say is very interesting...

Please could you press the return key a little more, so us "older girls" might find it a little easier to read.

We often talk about the "mask" in terms of gender issues, but you are right, whatever our gender, we often still present a mask (image) to "the world",

...letting only a few see the real person behind it.


Chrissty
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solosusan

Wow really good responses to my thoughts -    What kills me is that it's so obvious to me now that women are simply better equipped to live in so many ways than men, yet have lower self esteem?!  Lower pay, lower accomplishments?   Women grasp things so fast and can, if they want to, give so much.  Yet they do not give half as much to each other as they do to men.  How does Mother Nature feel about women, the gender she chose to rule the earth and do everything - and I do mean everything except one little thing - giving their precious energy to males so much of the time?  Are males supposed to have it?  Is it good for the Earth? Question:  what about constant war is not just life as usual for males?  Don't give me the 'not all men are like that' cuz they aren't, but that doesn't have anything to do with it.  Not all males rule, have sex, or fight, but the pyramid of men is there and only a few can be at the top at any given time.  Unless women break into politics nothing will ever change.  if the ones at the top were removed other males would fight and kill to fill the space.  We're giving males so much of our energy and look at the result!   We need women in government and should work toward total equality with that. Men started their revolution during the Roman Empire - you might be surprised it's been such a short time but yes it has.  Things have gone straight downhill in so many ways - but I can see that it was a necessary period.  Before that women were usually the judges and lawyers, amongst other things - also the historians, doctors and educators (schools were for boys because they were not wanted at home during the day.   they were not designed for girls - not needed.)  I never sent my girls to school unless they really wanted it - the boys were a different story - not that they can't thrive at home - but it's ten times the work as with girls, and even then they ended up in school far more by mutual concession to their greater need for repetition, order, and discipline.  The girls I just watched TV with - (fantastic TV, listen to no one put down TV, the best stuff on earth is on TV) and they floated into any college they wanted.  The boys did too, but after far, far more work.  Don't forget folks that at this time  I am just beginning to identify as a woman and have no experience with it yet.  I'm real excited about it though.   oh - as far as hitting the return key is there a trick to that?  I just type - when do you hit return?  I'm not so young either :)  Thanks
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Nero

I think the reason women appear to be 'giving their precious energy to males' and not ruling the earth is due more to temperament than anything else. Women as a whole don't seem to have the same values as men. They value different things. Men like to fight, women like to compromise. In general, women are more about nurturing, helping, and healing. Men, not so much. I think if it weren't these major value conflicts, it would be a women's world.
I say this of course with all the usual qualifiers allowing for variation, 'not all', 'exceptions to every rule' etc, etc, etc
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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whatsername

Interestingly this came up in the other thread in Gender Studies too.  I'll be honest, I don't think we really know what natural femininity looks like.  I think it's been so manipulated by white supremacist hetero-patriarchy that there's just no way to be sure what real femininity and what's not.  Except of course what is inside of each of us women and how exactly we choose to express it. 

For me I think there's a lot of truth in the notion that femininity is a desire to compromise where masculinity is in the desire to "win".  I definitely feel like I'm in touch with my feminine side most when I'm nurturing someone or caring for/about their life, etc.  It's a respect for what makes us all different individuals and wanting to find a way for us to coexist together.

And I have to disagree about skirts being feminine, I definitely only wear skirts when I feel like performing some level of femininity!  But that's just me. :)
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Saraloop

From dictionary: "Femininity refers to qualities and behaviors judged by a particular culture to be ideally associated with or especially appropriate to women and girls."

judged by the culture? well..indeed, there's no 1 consensus for it, much like many terms.
Let's not forget about history's lessons, such as amazon civilizations, and even roman civilization, as well as the present. Many woman could be considered 'masculine' just like many men could be considered 'feminine'. Women are just as capable of wanting to "win" as men. There's no question.

"In traditional Western culture, such features include gentleness, patience, vanity, superficiality and kindness."

Looking at this, I can't help but think that femininity can only be a label, being the classification of certain attributes or traits.

If someone feels very divine and gentle, does that make them feminine?-Only by the culture's definition.
Alot more women are becoming 'masculine' compared to before, now that society it a little less restricting.  Imagine if there were no restrictions, who knows what women would act like.. though already, just having a curvy/artistical body and/or giving birth is enough influence to make them associate themselves to a few stereotypical 'feminine' attributes just there,.. so it'd be impossible to truly determine what women would act like without influence. 

If femininity can only be perceived within yourself as a woman, then only 'true' women will know. The question is now, how does one know she is a 'true' woman or not if she only havs variable and influenced information about what femininity is? What limits men from feeling the same? Are there actually restrictions regarding someone's 'true' self and feelings?
Too many questions and too few answers.




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Alyx.

Forgive me for saying so, but... you posts seem to make everything seem like it's guys fault, and women are superior in some way.

"The gender (female) that mother nature chose to rule the earth?" Riiiiiiight...
If you do not agree to my demands... TOO LATE
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whatsername

Quote from: Saraloop on November 17, 2008, 11:03:01 PMToo many questions and too few answers.

Ha! No kidding, I am right there with you. :P
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Buffy

I doubt even genetic women can define femininity.

Diversity ranges from the butch type lesbian to the ultra girlie barbie type character.

I have met and worked with some highly qualified women in typically male dominated occupations (Engineering, Science), who commanded respect by just simply using their "Feminine charms". Wearing a skirt, high heels and looking immaculate in make up is not an option at 2am in the morning commisioning a Chemical Manufacturing site.

To me femininity is a state of mind and sometimes behaviour......it is also the ability to control mens hearts and minds.

Rebecca
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